TV Alert: BBC 2's Documentary "15 Billion Pound Railway"

[Busaholic]

With trains every 5 minutes between Shenfield and Central London in the peak, any semi-fast train would soon catch up the one in front (by Gidea Park in the GE example).

The GE metro service today sees some semi fast trains in the peak because there is not the passenger capacity on many trains to be able to stop them at all stations, and even if there was, the slightly longer journey times would then require more 315s.

There is a plan not to stop at Plumstead, by not providing a station there

I'm probably hopelessly na ive, but couldn't the fast lines be made use of from Brentwood to Ro mford for instance?I've no idea if there's any spare capacity to run 4tph semi-fast, for instance.

Thought it funny I'd seen no mention of Plumstead Station!

 

[306024]

Sorry no chance! The main lines are run at full capacity between Shenfield and Liverpool St in the peak as well. Busy old bit of railway over here

 

[AM9]

Sorry no chance! The main lines are run at full capacity between Shenfield and Liverpool St in the peak as well. Busy old bit of railway over here

Concur with that. Twas the same in the '70s when I used to commute on it.
The GER had the most intense suburban rail service at the end of the 19th century and noting has changed much since then.

 

[Busaholic]

Sorry no chance! The main lines are run at full capacity between Shenfield and Liverpool St in the peak as well. Busy old bit of railway over here

Glad to hear it's so busy. On my not-so-frequent forays to London I have cause to go Liverpool Street to Romford and am surprised at lack of fast trains (e.g. none back from Romford in p.m. peak, even though quite a lot of us are doing the full journey). What would be the scope for putting a line down to Barking and then running non-stop to Fenchurch Street? Intensive bus service Romford to Barking these days.

 

[AM9]

Glad to hear it's so busy. On my not-so-frequent forays to London I have cause to go Liverpool Street to Romford and am surprised at lack of fast trains (e.g. none back from Romford in p.m. peak, even though quite a lot of us are doing the full journey). What would be the scope for putting a line down to Barking and then running non-stop to Fenchurch Street? Intensive bus service Romford to Barking these days.

If you aren't familiar with the lie of the land in Essex/East London, tale a look at Google Maps. You would find it very difficult to get a line from Romford to Barking unless it was fully tunneled at great cost - just to get a relatively small number of passengers into London against the Rush Hour flow. Any such extravagance would save a maximum of 5 minutes over the proposed Crossrail times.
Buses, well even a non-stop bus to Barking would take at least 20 minutes any time of day. If you want a limited stop journey from Romford, then get the Upminster flyer and pick up a fast C2C train to Fenchurch St., (3 stops).

 

[306024]

Glad to hear it's so busy. On my not-so-frequent forays to London I have cause to go Liverpool Street to Romford and am surprised at lack of fast trains (e.g. none back from Romford in p.m. peak, even though quite a lot of us are doing the full journey).

Unfortunately Romford can only take 8 cars and many contra-peak services are 12 cars, so can't stop as they are too long. Selective door operation is not an option as only the 321/4s are fitted, which is a small proportion of the total fleet, and each train would require another member of staff to operate it.

 

[Busaholic]

Unfortunately Romford can only take 8 cars and many contra-peak services are 12 cars, so can't stop as they are too long. Selective door operation is not an option as only the 321/4s are fitted, which is a small proportion of the total fleet, and each train would require another member of staff to operate it.

Thanks for the explanation. Surprised to hear Romford can only take 8 cars - guess this won't change anytime soon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Dog with a bone time. If Shenfield to Liverpool Street only sees 6 tph how come 12 tph suddenly become necessary with Crossrail? Is it just operational convenience to run them all to Shenfield rarther than turn half at a station a few miles away, or are they horribly overcrowded at peaks, or is some large-scale housing development coming on stream in Havering or west Essex? This is a genuine enquiry - I have no 'baggage' with this, but I do like to think with such large sums invested, when other areas are starved of investment cash, there is rational thinking behind it.

 

[AM9]

Thanks for the explanation. Surprised to hear Romford can only take 8 cars - guess this won't change anytime soon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Dog with a bone time. If Shenfield to Liverpool Street only sees 6 tph how come 12 tph suddenly become necessary with Crossrail? Is it just operational convenience to run them all to Shenfield rarther than turn half at a station a few miles away, or are they horribly overcrowded at peaks, or is some large-scale housing development coming on stream in Havering or west Essex? This is a genuine enquiry - I have no 'baggage' with this, but I do like to think with such large sums invested, when other areas are starved of investment cash, there is rational thinking behind it.

There always used to be a 6tph service to Shenfield in the rush hour interleaved with trains to Gidea Park. This allowed the semi-fast Southend Victoria trains to move over to the Electric (slow) lines just after Gidea Park sidings to stop at Harold Wood, Brentwood and Shenfield. There were also a few Ilford terminators.
Maybe the Crossrail service will be faster so that the semi-fasts to Southend can be non-stop to Shenfield.

 

[thelem]

The programmes were only concerned with the new-build, exciting and challenging enough, but not to really mention the bulk of the route(s) may have left the impression with some that new stations were being created right out to Reading

It wasn't trying to be a programme about the service that's going to be run though, it was all about the engineering needed to create it. Even in central London then ignored most of the tunnelling to focus on the difficult bits, because they were more challenging/interesting. They didn't really say much about the rolling stock that would be using the tunnels either.

I'd expect information about service provision to be covered on the news.

 

[Abpj17]

It wasn't trying to be a programme about the service that's going to be run though, it was all about the engineering needed to create it. Even in central London then ignored most of the tunnelling to focus on the difficult bits, because they were more challenging/interesting. They didn't really say much about the rolling stock that would be using the tunnels either.

I'd expect information about service provision to be covered on the news.

I guess it also reflects the stage the build is at. It's still ages away from being in service. So rolling stock and the service etc. would be further way. The rolling stock contract was only awarded earlier this year.

The cross rail website has a lot more information for anyone interests in other aspects.