Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[DJH1971]

Where are these reports from? They sound pretty crazy as there are supports close to Vic right now.

Unless they are referring to the bay platforms, where wires won't be much use until 2016.

I heard it in Skyscraper City although not rather specific, but they could have been referring to the bay platforms.

As you say, there are plenty of supports in place now so wiring can't be too far off.

 

[snowball]

I heard it in Skyscraper City

Now you mention it I realise I saw it there too, but I'd forgotten I'd seen it. I think it was just a mistake by the poster.

 

[nw-sparks]

The only thing which seems to me to need more thought is electronic info at the two stations. I had several conversations with people and observed for myself the confusion over where their next train westwards would arrive. Both stations enjoy an excellent frequency of service to Lime St, but the on-platform electronic displays show a rolling display of forthcoming strains on that platform only. So if a passenger arrives at P1 he sees that the "next" train to Lime St is in 25 minutes, he is then mightliy miffed when a train for Lime St rolls in to P2, he runs down the stairs, under the tracks up the stairs and waves it goodbye.....

I suggest what is needed are the displays common on larger stations which show all trains in time order with platform numbers. Passengers can then look for 1. the next train to Lime St, then 2. which platform it goes from. The present kit is fine for two platform stations, but not for three or four platform stations.

The departure display in the ticket hall at Huyton shows all trains and platforms, but that doesn't negate your point, since anyone who already has a ticket/pass wont be going in there.

I'm told that on the first day the departure panels at Roby were showing all down trains off platform 2 and none from platform 1.

 

[Class377/5]

I had a feeling about that.

Especially as there are reports that Victoria won't be wired until May 2015, yet NR and the NW Sparks blog say differently.

Makes sense although I was hoping for some 319s at my old station, Bryn this year.

 

[WatcherZero]

Bay platforms at Vic wont be done till much later.

 

[DJH1971]

Bay platforms at Vic wont be done till much later.

They are probably more related to the Transpennine West electrification.

 

[Viscount702]

The Bays will be done on current plans as Phase 5 which is Transpennine West that is Victoria to Stalybridge and should be completed by December 2016 . I have no idea what will use them as there are no EMU's due to terminate at Victoria from the East in 2016 as the wires will only have reached Stalybridge.

What I am more interested to Know is if it has been decided to wire to Newton Heath.

 

[LDECRexile]

The departure display in the ticket hall at Huyton shows all trains and platforms, but that doesn't negate your point, since anyone who already has a ticket/pass wont be going in there.

I'm told that on the first day the departure panels at Roby were showing all down trains off platform 2 and none from platform 1.

Ah, I missed the departure display in the ticket hall; seeing so much wood I missed a tree! If it was resited onto the approach ramp, with a matching one on the P4 approach (as at Ainsdale, for example) they would work for everyone.

realtimetrains still shows all trains as P1 or P2, no P3s yet. I don't know whether this is the data it's fed or needing some internal update.

Someone suggested routing all stoppers through one platform only. This would reduce the problem, but I reckon it would reduce the operational flexibility which is the investment's prime goal. Late stoppers, for example, would then have to queue when a line and platform might be free.

 

[The Planner]

The timetable won't be allowing for the platforms until December so it is being dealt with on the day.

 

[Llama]

The 40-over-60 TSR on the Down Chat Moss between Patricroft and Astley has been spated.

 

[DJH1971]

The 40-over-60 TSR on the Down Chat Moss between Patricroft and Astley has been spated.

What does that mean, as it sounds a little technical?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 40-over-60 TSR on the Down Chat Moss between Patricroft and Astley has been spated.

I wondered that on Monday, and we seemed to be moving quite fast (156), but there still appeared to be a "T" sign approaching Astley.
Next thing has to be to remove the short 40/60 PSR at Astley itself.
I still can't work out what it's for.

 

[The Planner]

The level crossing plays a major part in it.

 

[driver_m]

What does that mean, as it sounds a little technical?

Speed previously advertised terminated early. Basically it's back to line speed.

You'll still see a t board. That will go when all the boards are removed.

 

[Dunc108]

The Bays will be done on current plans as Phase 5 which is Transpennine West that is Victoria to Stalybridge and should be completed by December 2016 . I have no idea what will use them as there are no EMU's due to terminate at Victoria from the East in 2016 as the wires will only have reached Stalybridge.

What I am more interested to Know is if it has been decided to wire to Newton Heath.

You'd think it would be logical to wire part of Newton Heath as surely EMU's even on the Vic side will need some kind of stabling/maintanance point?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What I am more interested to Know is if it has been decided to wire to Newton Heath.

Even by British standards it would be totally crazy and short-sighted not to.

 

[snowball]

Huyton T&W Act Order approved.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2171607

 

[Whistler40145]

The Gazette link says Page not Found.

 

[snowball]

Strange, it works for me.

Transport Acts
Department for Transport
TRANSPORT AND WORKS ACT 1992

The Secretary of State for Transport gives notice under section 14(1)(b) and (2A) of the Transport and Works Act 1992 (“the Act”) that he has determined under section 13(1) of the Act to make with modifications the Network Rail (Huyton) Order (“the Order”).

The Order was applied for by Network Rail Infrastructure Limited, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG. It will authorise Network Rail Infrastructure Limited to construct and operate a new 230 metre section of railway and associated works at Huyton, east of Liverpool, on the Chat Moss Line railway. Copies of the Order, once made, may be obtained from the Stationery Office or through booksellers.

The Secretary of State has, under section 14(1)(a) of the Act, given notice of his determination by way of a decision letter dated 17 July 2014, copies of which may be obtained from the TWA Orders Unit, Department for Transport, General Counsel’s Office, Zone 1/14-18, Great Minster House, 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR. That letter gives the reasons for the determination and the considerations upon which it is based; information about the public participation process; and information regarding the right to challenge the validity of the determination and the procedures for doing so.

Martin Woods, Head of the TWA Orders Unit, General Counsel’s Office, Department for Transport, Great Minster House, 33 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 4DR

 

[Whistler40145]

Now working, cheers

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You'd think it would be logical to wire part of Newton Heath as surely EMU's even on the Vic side will need some kind of stabling/maintanance point?

Northern has to produce a depot strategy first, costed into the franchise bid.
You are then quickly back to questions of how many EMUs, of what type, working what services.
Longsight and Allerton are enough until at least 2016.
By 2018 there will be access to Neville Hill in Leeds as well.
Wiring 2.5 miles from Miles Platting to Newton Heath is not a trivial cost.
It's not in the CP5 plan for TP Electrification (West):

This project does not include associated ancillary works necessary to enable the introduction and operation of electric trains and other electric traction (e.g. rolling stock clearance, depots / stabling works or, platform lengthening as a result of the operation of electric trains).

 

[Ploughman]

Even by British standards it would be totally crazy and short-sighted not to.

Neville Hill - Leeds was not included in the original ECML wiring.
Only added later.

 

[snowball]

I see the Trackmaps/Quail map shows, as part of the Stalybridge electrification, all four tracks wired from Vic to the SW corner of the Miles Platting triangle, even though there is nowhere east of Victoria East Junction where an eastbound train can cross from the fast lines to the Stalybridge lines, or a westbound train from the Stalybridge lines to the fast lines.

 

[LDECRexile]

There is now a film of the recent Roby-Huyton upgrading on YouTube.

I have been sent it as part of an email and don't know how to link it here, perhaps someone else could do so?

It came to me with the title "Huyton & Roby improvement works"

 

[Wavertreelad]

There is now a film of the recent Roby-Huyton upgrading on YouTube.

I have been sent it as part of an email and don't know how to link it here, perhaps someone else could do so?

It came to me with the title "Huyton & Roby improvement works"

There you go the link

http://youtu.be/4YTSv69KGIU

 

[Viscount702]

I see the Trackmaps/Quail map shows, as part of the Stalybridge electrification, all four tracks wired from Vic to the SW corner of the Miles Platting triangle, even though there is nowhere east of Victoria East Junction where an eastbound train can cross from the fast lines to the Stalybridge lines, or a westbound train from the Stalybridge lines to the fast lines.

Remember there are some track changes due to take place both east and west of Victoria which might change the arrangement. Also we still don't know for certain whether or not Newton Heath will get wires. There is nothing in the CP5 plan about wiring Newton Heath but a study was being done a while back but we don't know the outcome.

 

[geoffk]

I had a trip to Huyton and Roby yesterday to see the new layout. Liverpool trains were using both platforms 1 and 2. It was explained to me by one of the contractors that a strip of land is required from BT before the fourth track, the up slow, can be completed, and this will not be until 2017, although work on building platform 4 is well advanced.

There are currently no masts along the widened section or at Broad Green. It seems unlikely that electric trains will be running in December, even if enough units are available.

Is there any more information on a start date?

 

[snowball]

It was explained to me by one of the contractors that a strip of land is required from BT before the fourth track, the up slow, can be completed

As frequently discussed in this thread. The land-take was authorised yesterday, see #2149.

and this will not be until 2017, although work on building platform 4 is well advanced.

As also discussed in this thread, there are conflicting statements by NR on the finish date for the fourth track, but 2016 seems more likely. The CP5 Enhancements Delivery Plan says work on the fourth track will start Nov 2014 for completion Feb 2016.

There are currently no masts along the widened section or at Broad Green. It seems unlikely that electric trains will be running in December, even if enough units are available.

Is there any more information on a start date?

The official date for completion of the wiring is Dec 2014 and NR seems to believe it is on schedule.

 

[DJH1971]

The official date for completion of the wiring is Dec 2014 and NR seems to believe it is on schedule.

And they are still maintaining this is the case, well the Sunday blockades will be somewhat of benefit!

 

[cle]

Are the Huyton and Roby layout works to separate fast/slows, or to separate Chat Moss/Wigan line trains? Or both?