Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LDECRexile]

Particular thanks to 8A_Rail for recent photos and comments. He and I must have been within feet of each other one day last week when lines 1 & 2 crossovers were being installed.

I am surprised by the observation "The new third (up) line is I reckon situated in the middle of what will become 3 and 4 (up) lines. Clearly this means when the fourth line eventually goes in, it will mean another blockade to put everything in place again."

You may be right, but I hope not. I believe that a strip of land north of the third line is being purchased which will allow the 4th line to be installed without uprooting the third line. Having to buy that strip of land has meant that the complete remodelling has not happened all in one go.

Can anyone else clarify please?

 

[DJH1971]

Went into Manchester today and going through Earlestown, is still finding the lack of progress a tad worrying.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Particular thanks to 8A_Rail for recent photos and comments. He and I must have been within feet of each other one day last week when lines 1 & 2 crossovers were being installed.

I am surprised by the observation "The new third (up) line is I reckon situated in the middle of what will become 3 and 4 (up) lines. Clearly this means when the fourth line eventually goes in, it will mean another blockade to put everything in place again."

You may be right, but I hope not. I believe that a strip of land north of the third line is being purchased which will allow the 4th line to be installed without uprooting the third line. Having to buy that strip of land has meant that the complete remodelling has not happened all in one go.

Can anyone else clarify please?

You are correct: the design you see means that only one S&C unit has to be removed and one installed (plus moving the fixed red from platform 3 to 4 at Huyton) in order to connect the fourth line at Huyton. The three lines you see don't move when the fourth is fitted, post land-purchase. The big lateral shift is to get a 90mph alignment with 50mph connections to work under modern standards (Roby Junction has 70mph turnouts). Many design hours were spent getting the Huyton layout to work for 3 lines and least alterations for 4 - hats off to the designers!

 

[DJH1971]

Well, no trains today but no sign of the Balfour Beatty train today near me.

Wonder where it is today?

 

[8A Rail]

You are correct: the design you see means that only one S&C unit has to be removed and one installed (plus moving the fixed red from platform 3 to 4 at Huyton) in order to connect the fourth line at Huyton. The three lines you see don't move when the fourth is fitted, post land-purchase. The big lateral shift is to get a 90mph alignment with 50mph connections to work under modern standards (Roby Junction has 70mph turnouts). Many design hours were spent getting the Huyton layout to work for 3 lines and least alterations for 4 - hats off to the designers!

I appreciate the additional information and now explains why the Down Chat Moss fast line is now approx 5/6 feet away from the fence / walking path running along the line (previously was in touching distance) and why the extra land is required on the north side of the line. Until I visually noted this, it had puzzled me as previously it had four lines there from yesteryear. Thanks again.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Following a visit today I'm happy to report there is a short section from a point just west of Wavertree Technology Park Station to under Mill Road Bridge in Olive Mount Cutting where all the wiring appears to be complete, although it's a bit difficult to see it in the first three photo's below.

West of Wavertree Tech Station the old OHLE structures erected when the WCML was electrified in the 1960's remain in place so it will be interesting to see if they are replaced or reused. In the fourth picture the last of the new OHLE structures is just visible. The fifth picture is taken roughly from where the abutments for the flyover crossing the Chat Moss lines which were then four tracked at this point cross to the to Edge Hill shed side. The abutments on the to the bridge on the far side are hidden by the undergrowth lying in front of the white Network Rail equipment just left of centre. The line of the building in the picture is roughly the point of edge of the bank down to the running to tracks the rest is uncontrolled undergrowth since the two fast lines were lifted. The link below shows the same location in 1985 from the opposite direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/5517159226/

 

[8A Rail]

Following a visit today I'm happy to report there is a short section from a point just west of Wavertree Technology Park Station to under Mill Road Bridge in Olive Mount Cutting where all the wiring appears to be complete, although it's a bit difficult to see it in the first three photo's below.

West of Wavertree Tech Station the old OHLE structures erected when the WCML was electrified in the 1960's remain in place so it will be interesting to see if they are replaced or reused. In the fourth picture the last of the new OHLE structures is just visible. The fifth picture is taken roughly from where the abutments for the flyover crossing the Chat Moss lines which were then four tracked at this point cross to the to Edge Hill shed side. The abutments on the to the bridge on the far side are hidden by the undergrowth lying in front of the white Network Rail equipment just left of centre. The line of the building in the picture is roughly the point of edge of the bank down to the running to tracks the rest is uncontrolled undergrowth since the two fast lines were lifted. The link below shows the same location in 1985 from the opposite direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/5517159226/

This gives you a better view from Stephenson Way Bridge with the assistance of an extending ladder taken in May - no change since then.

 

[Manchester77]

Were the OHLE structures pictures ever used and if they were why was the route dewired?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Following a visit today I'm happy to report there is a short section from a point just west of Wavertree Technology Park Station to under Mill Road Bridge in Olive Mount Cutting where all the wiring appears to be complete, although it's a bit difficult to see it in the first three photo's below.

The nearest droppers don't seem to be attached to anything yet (not positioned above the track)?
There are some new mast bases a fair way west of where the old masts end.
I suspect they are not going to reuse the old masts.

 

[LDECRexile]

"You are correct: the design you see means that only one S&C unit has to be removed and one installed (plus moving the fixed red from platform 3 to 4 at Huyton) in order to connect the fourth line at Huyton. The three lines you see don't move when the fourth is fitted, post land-purchase. The big lateral shift is to get a 90mph alignment with 50mph connections to work under modern standards (Roby Junction has 70mph turnouts). Many design hours were spent getting the Huyton layout to work for 3 lines and least alterations for 4 - hats off to the designers!"

Warm thanks.

All hail the designers!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Were the OHLE structures pictures ever used and if they were why was the route dewired?

The LMR was very enthusiastic in its OHLE provision and put up wires all over the place that were never used in practice.
At some point they did some dewiring (possibly to use in repairs elsewhere).
At Edge Hill there are still miles of wired sidings that I'm sure never see electric traffic, including the stub end of the one-time flyover.
The Chat Moss main line lost its wires over about 400 yards, and will have to be re-wired in the next few months.

 

[Manchester77]

The LMR was very enthusiastic in its OHLE provision and put up wires all over the place that were never used in practice.
At some point they did some dewiring (possibly to use in repairs elsewhere).
At Edge Hill there are still miles of wired sidings that I'm sure never see electric traffic, including the stub end of the one-time flyover.
The Chat Moss main line lost its wires over about 400 yards, and will have to be re-wired in the next few months.

Thanks I didn't know any of that only thought that it was the principle lines catering intercity traffic that got wired.

 

[snowball]

I think the philosophy had changed a bit by the time they did Weaver Junction northwards.

 

[HSTEd]

BR was trying to get the Government to back total electrification at the time. Also there were plans for mass electric trip freight that was killed by the end of common carrier.

 

[Starmill]

BR was trying to get the Government to back total electrification at the time.

Ah, that'd be a fine thing!

 

[PDG1949]

Well, no trains today but no sign of the Balfour Beatty train today near me.

Wonder where it is today?

Coming back by road into St. Helens from Liverpool this Sunday afternoon on the A570 Linkway from the M62, no new activity noted between Lea Green and Rainhill. Some new TTC metalwork noted between St. Helens Standish Street and Corporation Street bridges but no change on the platforms at St. Helens Central today.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Following a visit today I'm happy to report there is a short section from a point just west of Wavertree Technology Park Station to under Mill Road Bridge in Olive Mount Cutting where all the wiring appears to be complete, although it's a bit difficult to see it in the first three photo's below.

Got it now: the catenary wire is in place at the west end of Olive Mount cutting, but the contact wire is still missing.
This means the droppers haven't anything to connect to yet.
The only other new work to report is that registration arms are pretty much all in place from Ordsall Lane to within 100 yards of the platforms at Victoria, except for a gap next to Salford Central.

 

[LDECRexile]

I did a Lime St-Wigan-Roby-Earlestown-Huyton-Lime St tour today and found the following: (new things [to me] in italics)

35 new masts and 13 new bases installed since last beginning of July.

Notes: Electrification
There are now 1041 masts up, 183 bases in place and <10 scrapes
Fixings hang under the M62 between WTPk and Broad Green
Edge Hill to Wavertree only new mbs shown, older masts also exist
Bryn to Wigan NW only new mbs shown, older masts also exist
Ince Moss branch bases visible, at least one mast erected
mbs in stations not shown, eg Prescot has two large "arch" masts
Some side fixings in place in the rock 'canyon' N of Eccleston Pk
Bases east of Sankey viaduct, both sides of tracks
Bases extend from Earlestown Sth Jct to mid-platform 3
Base on long-disused S-to-W platform at Earlestown
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Edge Hill-Broad Green
Extensive work on southbound platform at Bryn still continuing
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Bryn-Wigan
Lineside equipment installed (signalling?) Huyton-Whiston
Much signalling work in progress St Helens-Wigan
Substantial electrical gear in place at Tuebrook Sidings
Substantial electrical gear in place at Huyton Quarry
Substantial electrical gear in place at South of Wigan
Substantial lengths of "Return Wire" hanging nr Garswood and Bryn
Substantial lengths of "Power Wires" hanging nr Garswood and Bryn
Miles of "Power Wires" hanging Carr Mill through Garswood
Lengths of wires hanging in Olive Mount cutting, Liverpool
"Return Wire" hanging from Eccleston Pk through Prescot
"Return Wire" hanging from Thatto Heath to St Helens glassworks
New signals working near WTechPk, Collins Green, Whiston & Rainhill
Trackwork at Allerton Depot is prep for electrification & expansion
Greaser at Earlestown south end of P3 on back of flange against checkrail
Greasers also immediately W of Earlestown platform 3
Trackwork and signalling at Earlestown appears complete

I was and remain very impressed by what was achieved at Roby and Huyton over the blockade. No-one planned everything to be finished, here is a resumee of work in hand:

Roby and Huyton Stations
Both work, but Huyton is more advanced than Roby
No lifts work at Roby, lifts on P 1 & 2/3 work at Huyton, but not p4
Surfacing at Huyton P2/3 looks final; Roby is interim
Mast base to be installed mid-P2/3 at Roby, see kink in drain!
Lift shaft roofs all incomplete, both stations
Much work in progress on P1 and P4 both stations
Signage a mix of permanent and temporary at both stations
Platform edges close to carriage steps laterally
Platform edges a brick height below carriage steps vertically
Shelter at Roby has no seats, Huyton P2/3 has some
Platform 1 at Roby has no seats, Huyton has three trebles
Steps in public subway at Huyton not yet open
"Finish" to subway walls not yet applied
Orange army (including a lady) swarming everywhere

The only thing which seems to me to need more thought is electronic info at the two stations. I had several conversations with people and observed for myself the confusion over where their next train westwards would arrive. Both stations enjoy an excellent frequency of service to Lime St, but the on-platform electronic displays show a rolling display of forthcoming strains on that platform only. So if a passenger arrives at P1 he sees that the "next" train to Lime St is in 25 minutes, he is then mightliy miffed when a train for Lime St rolls in to P2, he runs down the stairs, under the tracks up the stairs and waves it goodbye.....

I suggest what is needed are the displays common on larger stations which show all trains in time order with platform numbers. Passengers can then look for 1. the next train to Lime St, then 2. which platform it goes from. The present kit is fine for two platform stations, but not for three or four platform stations.

 

[Class377/5]

There a bit of news in the new Rail stating Phase 2 is on track with

the majority of foundations and masts are now in place. We are now embarking on an intensive wiring programme

Infrastructure should be commissioned during the summer and energised in the autumn. NR is working with operators for route clearance and driver training.

 

[DJH1971]

There a bit of news in the new Rail stating Phase 2 is on track with



Infrastructure should be commissioned during the summer and energised in the autumn. NR is working with operators for route clearance and driver training.

Still missing them in a couple of important places!

 

[8A Rail]

Still missing them in a couple of important places!

Yes, where shall we start but a couple? Spring to mind nothing between Roby Junction and Huyton Junction. Nowt at Rainhill Station. Numerous masts missing near to Whiston Station. Earlestown not started (I think) and oh yes Sankey Viaduct too. But that could all change over the next few weeks though.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes, where shall we start but a couple? Spring to mind nothing between Roby Junction and Huyton Junction. Nowt at Rainhill Station. Numerous masts missing near to Whiston Station. Earlestown not started (I think) and oh yes Sankey Viaduct too. But that could all change over the next few weeks though.

Needs to now.

Yet wiring is now steaming ahead a little between Bryn/Garswood to Carr Mill, and even around Prescot to Eccleston Park.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Needs to now.
Yet wiring is now steaming ahead a little between Beyn/Garswood to Carr Mill, and even around Prescot to Eccleston Park.

There are still a surprising number of missing masts.
You can't wire if there are no masts.
The wiring and mast construction trains were being resupplied at Edge Hill today, but no sign of the foundation/concreting train.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Got it now: the catenary wire is in place at the west end of Olive Mount cutting, but the contact wire is still missing.
This means the droppers haven't anything to connect to yet.
.

Firstly apologises for the confusion about the wiring, unfortunately the pictures were taken rather hurriedly on my Blackberry yesterday afternoon. From the Mill Lane bridge I could see a the wire but unable from directly above to determine which wire it was. I then took a shot from Rathbone Road bridge looking east, but then managed not up load it, but is now below.

This gives you a better view from Stephenson Way Bridge with the assistance of an extending ladder taken in May - no change since then.

There was a small contingent of orange army on site yesterday afternoon although just out of shot. What they were doing I could not see even through the slits on the bridge walls. Unfortunately, as I was only passing I wasn't well prepared and that Stephenson Way bridge is absolute pain for the casual passer bye type photographer. There has been a little bit of work, looks like some cabling alongside the track has been installed, visible in my original third picture and it neatly skirts the old structure, although further up the line towards the Rathbone Road I think there has been some progress on the installation of the OHLE beyond where the old structures remained standing. I passed the NR access road this morning about 9am in the car and there seemed to be a lot more vehicles present so perhaps we shall see some progress in the coming weeks.

Were the OHLE structures pictures ever used and if they were why was the route dewired?

The LMR was very enthusiastic in its OHLE provision and put up wires all over the place that were never used in practice.
At some point they did some dewiring (possibly to use in repairs elsewhere).
At Edge Hill there are still miles of wired sidings that I'm sure never see electric traffic, including the stub end of the one-time flyover.
The Chat Moss main line lost its wires over about 400 yards, and will have to be re-wired in the next few months.

Indeed, I used to live directly opposite Edge Hill Gridiron and had an unobstructed view of it from near the head at Mill Lane to the flyover over the Chatmoss lines. The bank from Olive Mount Junction to the flyover was never electrified although the bank on the other side from Edge Hill was, as was the flyover and the two "front" lines running to the Gridiron head. The route on the Pighue Lane side leading to Tuebrook Sidings were also electrified together with the circular route around Edge Hill shed that used to cross the Chat Moss lines on the present day Wavertree Technology Park Station. Despite all this investment, the number of revenue earning electric workings up and down the Gridiron in the 1960's probably could be countered on your hands and the situation did not improve after the ending of steam in 1968. I can only recall one regular working for electric traction around the freight lines and that was a Freightliner train that for some reason I believe ran from Garston to Edge Hill via the London lines where upon an electric locomotive was then used to haul the train via the Tuebrook lines around the circular line. The tight curve of the line caused the 60ft Freightliner vehicles to make a loud screeching noise which at about 1130pm in 1969, caused many people to report the noise to the Liverpool Echo as UFO's!.

I can remember the Chat Moss lines being wired as far as the Circular Line bridge although whether this was all four lines or just the two I honestly cannot remember. The de-wiring at this point probably took place in the early 1970's when the two fast lines were lifted from Huyton to a point just east of Mill Lane bridge in Olive Mount Cutting. Here a connection was made to reconnect the fast lines although these were then truncated just short of the of the junction with the London lines which diverge to the south at Edge Hill. This change probably took place in about 1972/1973 in order to allow the construction of the M62 junction at the Rocket (Broadgreen). This junction was redesigned as the original route was planned to reach the reach the top of Parliament Street, (a few hundred yards beyond Edge Hill station. A financial crisis caused the Government of the day to cancel this route which involved routing the M62 over much of the Gridiron, and this is why the first junction on the M62 at Bowring Park is junction five not 1,2,3, or even 4. The construction of the bridge across the railway to the west of Broadgreen station blocked at least one running line as did the Queens Drive bridges. The picture below I believe dates from the early 1970's and shows the lifted bank from Olive Mount Junction to the flyover, and the closed Gridiron on the right which also had it's wiring removed including the structures. The two fast lines still appear in place, but only the posts of the original electrification remain in place meaning it was dewired in under 12 to 15 years from when they were first equipped with OHLE.

http://rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Liverpool&page=3&serial=59&img=G-130-07

 

[LDECRexile]

I missed the following from my resumee yesterday:

Numerous temporary rail joints between Roby Jct-Huyton Jct to be welded permamently

Apologies

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Firstly apologises for the confusion about the wiring, unfortunately the pictures were taken rather hurriedly on my Blackberry yesterday afternoon. From the Mill Lane bridge I could see a the wire but unable from directly above to determine which wire it was. I then took a shot from Rathbone Road bridge looking east, but then managed not up load it, but is now below.

Yes, fascinating archive stuff. Plus ça change as they say.
No doubt the wiring will soon be complete in that area.
There's still an awful lot of work to do though.
NR still has to clear away the debris from the Huyton blockade, so that BB can start the foundations there.
I counted about 10 finished on the south side and about 3 on the north through the area between the two junctions.
It needs about 30 on each side.

 

[SteveRainhill]

The only thing which seems to me to need more thought is electronic info at the two stations. I had several conversations with people and observed for myself the confusion over where their next train westwards would arrive. Both stations enjoy an excellent frequency of service to Lime St, but the on-platform electronic displays show a rolling display of forthcoming strains on that platform only. So if a passenger arrives at P1 he sees that the "next" train to Lime St is in 25 minutes, he is then mightliy miffed when a train for Lime St rolls in to P2, he runs down the stairs, under the tracks up the stairs and waves it goodbye.....

I suggest what is needed are the displays common on larger stations which show all trains in time order with platform numbers. Passengers can then look for 1. the next train to Lime St, then 2. which platform it goes from. The present kit is fine for two platform stations, but not for three or four platform stations.

Or, route all the slow trains along the slow line, which I assume will be the eventual configuration, and for which the infrastructure now seems to exist. I can't understand why they aren't doing it already, given the evident inconvenience that you speak of.

 

[Class377/5]

Just read in Rail that Northern's MD confirms that the first 319s will start to run to the airport first.

 

[DJH1971]

Just read in Rail that Northern's MD confirms that the first 319s will start to run to the airport first.

I had a feeling about that.

Especially as there are reports that Victoria won't be wired until May 2015, yet NR and the NW Sparks blog say differently.

 

[snowball]

there are reports that Victoria won't be wired until May 2015

Where are these reports from? They sound pretty crazy as there are supports close to Vic right now.

Unless they are referring to the bay platforms, where wires won't be much use until 2016.