First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Class 33]

Fingers crossed tomorrow's VOSA announcement will include details of more First Bristol changes from 31st August. But I really don't think there will be now!

Got a reply back from first regarding the 20 and 70 just saying that plans are not yet finalised.

That's interesting them saying that plans are still not yet finalised for the 20. As three sources(the VOSA edition, TravelineSW, and the First Bristol rep on Twitter) all say it's being cancelled and with no replacement. But not long now till we find out what's actually happening.

As for the 70, we'll also have to wait till September or maybe a little later to see if any increased capacity buses are put on this service as per they advised you would be happening back in May.

 

[swifty]

Fingers crossed tomorrow's VOSA announcement will include details of more First Bristol changes from 31st August. But I really don't think there will be now!

I'll save you the bother of waiting, there won't be anything for Bristol, however for Somerset & Avon;

3 (WSM) - Timetable
4 (Bath) - Route & Timetable
X4/5 - Timetable
7 (WSM) - Timetable
13 - Timetable
18 (Bath) - Timetable
178/9/379 Route & Timetable
234 - Timetable
260/3 - Route & Timetable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes but Wessex have gone downhill ever since. Have you seen their services? They are an embarassment.

As for the Enviro 400s, that was just optimism, but I still think we need more deckers serving UWE, not just the 14 and the handful that appear on the 12 in the peaks.



I honestly think they will be gone by September. They haven't got a clue. I think all operations will be run by First. I've reported them to the traffic commissioner for Bristol.

I for one hope they go. They can't run a bus services to save their lives, their buses are always late, their drivers have very limited English and also don't know the routes and their customer service skills are shocking. I complained about three services in a row being cancelled once last year, causing me to miss my train and delay me by nearly two hours as a result, I complained and they didn't reply to me straight away and when Bus Users UK got involved they finally replied but with a simple half-hearted 'sorry'. How utterly disgusting.

Their license will go soon!

This may be of interest to you then; http://www.uwesu.org/campaigns/buses/.

Some of the key points in there make interesting reading, for example 53.2% of people on thought the service could be improved, whilst 52.4% thought buses were very unreliable! (Both during and out of term time.)

 

[Class 33]

I'll save you the bother of waiting, there won't be anything for Bristol

Didn't think there would be anyway really. I knew the service changes announced the other week would most probably be it. Very un-interesting changes this time after that long wait. Will have to wait for the April 2005 changes now! Oh well, more important things in life to think about till then!

I wonder why First Bristol advised Freetoview33 that there would be changes to the 1,2, 75, and 76 this year, when in fact there are no changes atall after all that? Though to be honest I don't think there will be any changes to the 75 and 76 within the next couple of years now anyway, even though some ammendments/improvements to the services in the 70 series are required really.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'll save you the bother of waiting, there won't be anything for Bristol, however for Somerset & Avon;

3 (WSM) - Timetable
4 (Bath) - Route & Timetable
X4/5 - Timetable
7 (WSM) - Timetable
13 - Timetable
18 (Bath) - Timetable
178/9/379 Route & Timetable
234 - Timetable
260/3 - Route & Timetable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This may be of interest to you then; http://www.uwesu.org/campaigns/buses/.

Some of the key points in there make interesting reading, for example 53.2% of people on thought the service could be improved, whilst 52.4% thought buses were very unreliable! (Both during and out of term time.)

Had a look at the full report (though I did mainly skim it). Some of the observations were quite telling. Lots of mention of late running (though fewer with no shows) but quite a lot of linking that to seeing drivers stood around chatting and smoking at Frenchay. Perception is truth....one wonders if Rotala sorted issues like that then the general perception might be slightly better.

However, overcrowding was not a big issue and the view on vehicles was that 92% thought they were ok.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Didn't think there would be anyway really. I knew the service changes announced the other week would most probably be it. Very un-interesting changes this time after that long wait. Will have to wait for the April 2005 changes now! Oh well, more important things in life to think about till then!

I wonder why First Bristol advised Freetoview33 that there would be changes to the 1,2, 75, and 76 this year, when in fact there are no changes atall after all that? Though to be honest I don't think there will be any changes to the 75 and 76 within the next couple of years now anyway, even though some ammendments/improvements to the services in the 70 series are required really.

To be honest, you're contacting people via twitter (who are often more operational than planning) who say one thing. Then you have other people who are emailing and that's going to marketing etc. And then there's the possible issue that they don't want to say too much as it's commercially confidential.

It may also be that any changes to the 1/2 or 75/76 are simply deferred. Remember that James Freeman is coming in so perhaps they're putting off some of the changes til he gets his feet under the table?

 

[swifty]

Had a look at the full report (though I did mainly skim it). Some of the observations were quite telling. Lots of mention of late running (though fewer with no shows) but quite a lot of linking that to seeing drivers stood around chatting and smoking at Frenchay. Perception is truth....one wonders if Rotala sorted issues like that then the general perception might be slightly better.

Unfortunately for Rotala the only suitable place for drivers to take breaks is at Frenchay 'bus station'. So as a student stood looking at a fleet of parked buses with drivers having a 'jolly' you're going to assume they're only doing it just to make you late.

However, overcrowding was not a big issue and the view on vehicles was that 92% thought they were ok.

It goes onto say that many of the comments about vehicles go on to complain about overcrowding and the request for double deckers.

Wessex have previously said they don't like using deckers because the time saved by using smart cards would be eliminated by people going up and down stairs at the stops.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was in bath and also saw 66354 in new livery and 66353. They look very impressive especially with the large grill on the entrance side at the rear.

I took a short ride on 66356 and it's as bad on the inside as it is the out. It would be nice for these to be refurbished and maybe all put on the 319 to standardise it

They are generally very careworn inside and really could've done with a slight refurb. Whilst I think you'll see them on the 319, it can't all be done as some boards are decker runs

 

[swifty]

To be honest, you're contacting people via twitter (who are often more operational than planning) who say one thing. Then you have other people who are emailing and that's going to marketing etc. And then there's the possible issue that they don't want to say too much as it's commercially confidential.

It's more than likely they'll just be fobbing you off so you go away, like most of the replies on the Twitter feed.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's more than likely they'll just be fobbing you off so you go away, like most of the replies on the Twitter feed.

Yes, but if you're manning the twitter feed and people are bombarding you with stuff like "why haven't there been any 5's for the last hour" or a house on fire in Bath destroys the timetables, then that's bad enough to get detailed answers. Throw in a question or two about network development and new registrations....what can you really expect?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unfortunately for Rotala the only suitable place for drivers to take breaks is at Frenchay 'bus station'. So as a student stood looking at a fleet of parked buses with drivers having a 'jolly' you're going to assume they're only doing it just to make you late.[/QUOTE}

When I meant "sort it", it was along the lines of Rotala providing something like a "bait bus" where drivers can go and have their break away from the bus station. I know of a few firms do this where they have drivers working out of remote spots (e.g. away from the depot/home town etc). Stagecoach do it in Milton Keynes, for example.

For some "perception is truth" and so if they see it, they believe it. Therefore, make sure that they don't see it!

 

[swifty]

When I meant "sort it", it was along the lines of Rotala providing something like a "bait bus" where drivers can go and have their break away from the bus station. I know of a few firms do this where they have drivers working out of remote spots (e.g. away from the depot/home town etc). Stagecoach do it in Milton Keynes, for example.

For some "perception is truth" and so if they see it, they believe it. Therefore, make sure that they don't see it!

But that's what I'm saying, where else is them to do this at Frenchay? Fair enough at quiet times you'd get away with sending a bus around to the layby at the campus entrance and the drivers sitting on that. But at busy times the bus park can be full up with buses on layover, and the layby at the campus entrance will often have buses parked up too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But that's what I'm saying, where else is them to do this at Frenchay? Fair enough at quiet times you'd get away with sending a bus around to the layby at the campus entrance and the drivers sitting on that. But at busy times the bus park can be full up with buses on layover, and the layby at the campus entrance will often have buses parked up too.

At peak, you're less likely to have drivers hanging about but I take your point. However, you can locate it elsewhere than the bus station? Whatever the outcome, leaving it as it is will probably still result in conclusions being drawn that might not help Wessex!

 

[Class 33]

One issue I noticed with the 75 this morning. An example of how at peak morning times on some parts of the route, it's not an every 10 minutes service due to the traffic conditions. I had just missed the 0809 departure from Muller Road Top heading towards Cribbs Causeway. The next service wasn't booked for another 20 minutes untill 0829. This service would have had a booked departute time from Hengrove Depot 11 minutes after that service I just missed, but with a booked 9 minute longer journey time to Muller Road Top to accommodate the traffic conditions. Anyway, it was 12 minutes late as it didn't turn up untill 0841. So that meant a half hour gap in service on the 75 northbound in that region at that time of the morning. The double decker was fairly busy, only a handful of aisle seats available. The bus was stopping at most stops enroute as a number of people were waiting for a northbound 75 at this time of the morning. When we had passed the Filton Royal Mail I noticed another 75 over taking, this bus was an Eclipse and there was only about a half a dozen people on there. But when that bus had reached the bus stop just by Callicroft Road it was stationery, seemed as though the driver was stopping there for a bit as it was running early, so this may well have been the service with a booked departure time of 0849 from Muller Road Top. When I departed the bus just near the end of Coniston Road at about 0913 I noticed another 75 behind, which was another double decker. I couldn't see for sure, but there didn't appear to be many people on that bus either. This was probably the service booked for departure from Muller Road Top at 0839! So anyway, to summarise there was a half hour gap in service between 0810 and 0840 at Filton Road at that time of the morning, and then just shortly after three 75's running together, one of them near enough full, the other two with only a handful of people on.

I do remember a few weeks back also that that the 75 which was supposed to depart Muller Road Top at 0829 was also turned similarly about 10/11 minutes late too. So this might well be a fairly common occurence.

How do you solve a problem like this? Maybe perhaps at peak times certain workings terminate and start at the Centre. For example that 75 on that 0657 Hengrove Depot-Cribbs Causeway service does appear to run to time. But the 0708 Hengrove Depot-Cribbs Causeway appears to get delayed by about 10 minutes somewhere enroute. I'd have maybe that 0708 from Hengrove Depot terminating at The Haymarket at about 0808. And there being a 75 starting from the Centre through to Cribbs Causeway with a departure time of say 0755 and departing the Muller Road Top stop at about 0822. But probably not as straight forward as that from a logistical point. And First Bristol no longer has any shortened services at certain times, every single service 75 and 76 working booked strictly to run the full route between Hengrove Depot and Cribbs Causeway.

Sorry for rambling on there!

 

[freetoview33]

I'm personally not believing what First say anymore, trust me I will be looking for answers when what they say would happen doesn't!

 

[ValleyLines142]

How much money do you want to bet that they'll still be here in October? As you like the figure, how about €400?

First of all, they've not been hauled over the coals before. Secondly, the TC will need to both undertake independent observation and then invite them to a hearing. Thirdly, unless it's a safety violation (eg maintenance and PG9s, drivers hours breaches, etc) then they are unlikely to lose their license and certainly at the first time. It certainly won't happen that soon.

The only way they'll be gone quicker is if the KPIs are breached severely and by a long enough duration (and that they've also had time to remedy the situation) and then UWE might be able to terminate for a material breach.

As regards Bristol, the UWE work underpins it all. However, the Burnett site has lost a lot of work and any further losses would clearly raise questions about it's viability? Rotala gone by September? It won't happen and don't think I like them. Eastern European drivers racing e200s like gokarts is not enjoyable!

Do you use their services often? Do you honestly think their service is acceptable? The answer is no! Please don't condone their actions!

They have got some SERIOUS improving to do. If they can sort themselves out from the breakdown they're experiencing, then maybe I'll have some hope but in the meantime I shall be a regular with First on the 73!

I'm going to UWE today with the parents and we're purposely walking down to Sainsbury's afterwards to get a 73 into town. THAT'S evidence of how much I dislike Wessex.

And if I see that hideous 'The Only Way Is Wessex' slogan again I will literally throw up.

However, overcrowding was not a big issue and the view on vehicles was that 92% thought they were ok.

The only reason overcrowding isn't an issue on their services is because no one uses them as they're so <insert whatever word you like>!!

No but on a serious note overcrowding isn't an issue to be fair, although the 19 can get quite busy with those tiny Solos. Think some of the longer vehicles need to be introduced on that route. Also the 14 should be fully decker, not with the single deckers that sometimes appear and are rammed through!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

"Do you use their services often? Do you honestly think their service is acceptable? The answer is no! Please don't condone their actions!"

I thought I'd been very clear when I mentioned e200s being driven like go karts that I didn't condone poorly trained, barely comprehensible drivers ferrying me.

However, you're missing the point. You said they'll be gone by September as they'll lose their license. I'm saying that whilst that may happen eventually, it won't happen in that timeframe unless there's an issue with safety. Even then, there are processes for hearings, appeals, previous good conduct etc. The only other way would not be a VOSA/TC route but if UWE cancelled the contract; they may well be monitoring that and it could be removed as per the Taunton P&R with Webberbus but NOT from Wessex losing their license

Now do you understand?

And anyway, didn't you post on here that you'd destroyed your Wessex ticket and didn't travel by them now?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

34064. Still in service in Taunton (last Oly there).
34174. withdrawn 3 months ago, but still in the yard at Taunton depot.
34178/79/88/89/90. All still at Bridgwater together with recent arrivals from Taunton 34171/76.
41134 withdrawn some time ago and gone for scrap.
42634 in service Taunton.
42825 in service Taunton.
42830/34 in Taunton depot yard recently withdrawn.
42832/33/35 in service Taunton.
53001/9/13/14 in service Bridgwater.

Hope this helps.

Was down in TN yesterday. Only one ELC Dart in garage yard. 34171 was looking shocking on the 21 which was all decker save 42843 which sneaked on there. As for B7Ls, 60911 was on the 28 whilst 60913 & 60915 were in the depot (thought the latter had gone?).

 

[THarris123]

So what's the changes to 178/9/379?? Someone stated there was a route change? What's happening to the 179?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I mentioned above, I managed to get one last trip out before I start my new job (and no, I'm not James Freeman!!), and for the first time this summer, I managed to get down to Taunton and it makes a change from hacking round Bristol.

Drove down to Glastonbury and caught 66106. Quite an average machine, not as good as some and not as bad as others, but ok for the short hop to Somerton and time for elevenses. Then onto the 54 - note that the Webberbus 38 that should've arrived first didn't show! Running this was one of the ex Bath B6's; in fact it was 40590 that six weeks ago took me on the 179. Full of BikeBath posters and the like, as someone else mentioned, that they hadn't removed plus the wifi poster despite the wifi having been taken!

The B6's are probably ideal for Somerset and belted into Taunton, before a trip to Ilminster (was gonna be Chard but late running meant I didn't risk it) on newly repainted 40582. This had leather seats from its days on the TaviLynx and was tidy enough. The return was on Trident 33379 which had recently been cascaded ex London and refurbed though looked a bit scruffy. However, it went well and I do wonder why these are not on the 21 rather than the older T/V/W reg stuff.

Off at the bus depot for a quick mooch (see above) and then to town on 32866, one of the ex London and Glasgow Presidents, before catching the 4 so that I could experience some of the less salubrious suburbs of Taunton. Another B6 but this was 40586, in Olympia livery but with vinyls removed. However, inside was all First group ads for Devon. Only on 32866 did I see any BoS advertising, as it picked me up from Bridgwater Road and took me on the 21 to BR.

Saw the X75 waiting so ran over and got on 42738. Not a bad machine but lots of rattles as we bounced out of BR with about 15 people on the 1540 departure. However, by the time we left Woolavington, there were only 5 of us and one had gone on there, so clearly the trade is between Woolavington and Bridgwater and much of that is Bath Road. Off at Street and a standard Eclipse on the 376 with 69447 to Wells. Noted the new 26 stood at Wells with a 10 plate Solo and no passengers.

Main observations..... The B6s are very much in evidence, being the standard kit on the 22 and the 4 but also appearing on other Taunton routes. As a contrast, the change from a year ago is pronounced when of the five vehicles I experienced, only one is still in the fleet and that's now been moved from TN to BR. BoS had staff giving out new timetable booklets outside Primark, BTW

Webberbus still seem to be doing ok on routes like their 15 but the 37/38 can't really be paying. Even with some journeys now relegated to 11 year old Omnicities, they can't make money with half a dozen concessionaries. Even worse were the Bridgwater locals of which the two I saw were empty (in contrast to BoS) and then you wonder how they'll get on with the changes next week.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I thought I'd been very clear when I mentioned e200s being driven like go karts that I didn't condone poorly trained, barely comprehensible drivers ferrying me.

Indeed you were but it still seemed as if you thought their service was acceptable.

However, you're missing the point. You said they'll be gone by September as they'll lose their license. I'm saying that whilst that may happen eventually, it won't happen in that timeframe unless there's an issue with safety. Even then, there are processes for hearings, appeals, previous good conduct etc. The only other way would not be a VOSA/TC route but if UWE cancelled the contract; they may well be monitoring that and it could be removed as per the Taunton P&R with Webberbus but NOT from Wessex losing their license

Now do you understand?

I understand exactly what you're saying, but I'm just so surprised they still have their license as they're that bad!

And anyway, didn't you post on here that you'd destroyed your Wessex ticket and didn't travel by them now?

Indeed I have. I haven't been on single Wessex service since May 2012, with the exception of one single journey on the 14 I made in March, but that was only because there was nobody on it and it was getting ready to leave. Put it this way, I wouldn't plan a journey in advance to incorporate a Wessex bus!

I shall observe this afternoon if they're improving, although I'm not travelling with them; merely observing on foot. I've heard rumours that a driver on the 13 just before the UWE term finished thought he was on a 15, so those passengers who wanted Glenside and Fishponds must have had the shock of their lives when their bus went carting off down Filton Avenue, Henleaze and Clifton!!

I'm also interested to see if there are any changes to the vehicles on the 70.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed you were but it still seemed as if you thought their service was acceptable.



I understand exactly what you're saying, but I'm just so surprised they still have their license as they're that bad!

I shall observe this afternoon if they're improving, although I'm not travelling with them; merely observing on foot. I've heard rumours that a driver on the 13 just before the UWE term finished thought he was on a 15, so those passengers who wanted Glenside and Fishponds must have had the shock of their lives when their bus went carting off down Filton Avenue, Henleaze and Clifton!!

I'm also interested to see if there are any changes to the vehicles on the 70.

Whilst the service issue is important, firms don't lose their licenses for it at the first hearing IME. That usually happens in the MOST SERIOUS cases where fraud or safety is the main issue.

To draw the parallel with Taunton P&R, it wasn't VOSA who got involved and still aren't (at the mo) despite horrendous reliability and despite Webberbus also losing their NSC work for the same reason.

VOSA are massively stretched and so their resources are targeted at those firms that aren't just poor but those that are illegal or unsafe.

As for drivers dropping clangers, human error will always occur. I recall two of my dad's colleagues arriving at the same stop on the same service with one then realising he'd misread the rota!! And that was 30 years ago

 

[ValleyLines142]

Whilst the service issue is important, firms don't lose their licenses for it at the first hearing IME. That usually happens in the MOST SERIOUS cases where fraud or safety is the main issue.

To draw the parallel with Taunton P&R, it wasn't VOSA who got involved and still aren't (at the mo) despite horrendous reliability and despite Webberbus also losing their NSC work for the same reason.

VOSA are massively stretched and so their resources are targeted at those firms that aren't just poor but those that are illegal or unsafe.

As for drivers dropping clangers, human error will always occur. I recall two of my dad's colleagues arriving at the same stop on the same service with one then realising he'd misread the rota!! And that was 30 years ago

Hmm....well I eagerly await what happens next!

I may start a campaign to get rid of Wessex and have all their operations transferred!

 

[swifty]

Hmm....well I eagerly await what happens next!

I may start a campaign to get rid of Wessex and have all their operations transferred!

And even if they were 'gone' by September, where do you expect First to magic 40 odd buses, depot space, and staff from in such a hurry?

 

[ValleyLines142]

And even if they were 'gone' by September, where do you expect First to magic 40 odd buses, depot space, and staff from in such a hurry?

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And even if they were 'gone' by September, where do you expect First to magic 40 odd buses, depot space, and staff from in such a hurry?

That's a big bridge but it's academic.... I can't see it happening this September. First could resurrect Muller Road though I don't know how much work it would take to do that? Have the vandals and cable thieves been in there? If there was anything to change, you'd have seen evidence by now in order to be ready for the new academic year.

Finding 40+ vehicles is one issue. Of more concern would be, as you say, the 100 or so drivers that you need to find. Some Wessex may be ex First that they wouldn't necessarily want back!

As an aside, I overheard a driver at Taunton mentioning that there are three drivers training (among the many new starters) who were returning to First.

 

[matt_splat]

on travel line I cant see a sunday service for the 179 but I have been told that theres a route extension to it I can only think that it could be a sunday extension to cover writhlington which will be lost when the 177 goes on a sunday

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

on travel line I cant see a sunday service for the 179 but I have been told that theres a route extension to it I can only think that it could be a sunday extension to cover writhlington which will be lost when the 177 goes on a sunday

Really? Seems like a right hassle to extend it through Radstock to Writhlington for so few passengers. Still, the locals have made a load of noise about it though if BaNES have money to burn, I can think of many better recipients.

At least the usual Sunday Solo will be easier to swing round than the Eclipse I saw there a few months ago!!!

 

[matt_splat]

personally I don't think that's whats going to happen with the 179

I think It is losing the Sunday service the every 90 mins 178 makes up for the timsbury and farmbourgh and high Littleton loss of service I know some one who regually drove the 177 and he never ever picked any one up in writhlingotn

 

[swifty]

Didn't think there would be anyway really. I knew the service changes announced the other week would most probably be it. Very un-interesting changes this time after that long wait. Will have to wait for the April 2005 changes now! Oh well, more important things in life to think about till then!

I wonder why First Bristol advised Freetoview33 that there would be changes to the 1,2, 75, and 76 this year, when in fact there are no changes atall after all that? Though to be honest I don't think there will be any changes to the 75 and 76 within the next couple of years now anyway, even though some ammendments/improvements to the services in the 70 series are required really.

Keep the faith! Some more registrations are still trickling through;

FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED
73/X73/X74 - Route and Timetable

FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD
4 - Route and Timetable (again!)
15/15A - Timetable
18 - Route and Timetable

FLIGHTS HALLMARK LTD
11A - Timetable
12/12C - Timetable

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Keep the faith! Some more registrations are still trickling through;

FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED
73/X73/X74 - Route and Timetable

FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD
4 - Route and Timetable (again!)
15/15A - Timetable
18 - Route and Timetable

FLIGHTS HALLMARK LTD
11A - Timetable
12/12C - Timetable

I see you've updated your avatar....how very 1994! Memories of yellow Iveco Turbo Dailys!!

Take it the Bath 4 was the initial cancellation and now the BaNES tender?

 

[swifty]

Those were they days! https://www.flickr.com/photos/22455491@N02/2955159329

No both were variations to route & timetable, however today it's a short notice variation so a last minute change I'd assume?

 

[Class 33]

Keep the faith! Some more registrations are still trickling through;

FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED
73/X73/X74 - Route and Timetable

Interesting. Will keep an eye on the upcoming timetables on TravelineSW to see what these changes are. I expect most probably though just a minor change to the route through Bradley Stoke and minor timetable adjustments, probably nothing major.

 

[DaveHarries]

New StreetLites 47551 (SN14 FGC) & 47553 (SN14 FGE) were out on the X2 & X3 (Bristol - Portishead) diagrams today in full "Express Yourself" livery.

Dave