mister-sparky
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Would you rather they terminated them at South Bermondsey, or cancelled them entirely?
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London Bridge blockade in August
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Would you rather they terminated them at South Bermondsey, or cancelled them entirely?
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ushawk
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It technically isnt as it is being "covered" by this service which starts from Brighton at 0813 and leaves Gatwick at 0850, which currently runs 4 minutes after the current service.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W60070/2014/09/02/advanced
swt_passenger
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I doubt passengers are expected to travel to South Bermondsey, it's just a convenient reversing point. I think they'll want you to transfer onto LO at one of the previous stations...
Have they mentioned anything about buses?
So if it isn't being covered, what is causing it to be cancelled?
Does it mean the service from Brighton will be terminating at Gatwick Airport in future. That would be an unusual Gatwick Express service, one which didn't go to London.
The 381 goes there, but only after some ridiculously long route around rotheride.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/posters/SBM.pdf
There is currently the 8.46 GX Gatwick to Victoria service and a GX service from Brighton to Victoria leaving Gawick at 8.50. The 8.46 is cancelled and the 8.50 continues unchanged.
My view is that the 0846 is cancelled for performance reasons. There is also the need to accommodate a service from Horsham arriving into Victoria at 0909 which usually goes to London Bridge which has resulted in some timetable changes around that time.
There are a few changes into Victoria between 0900 and 0920 to accommodate the Horsham service diverted from London Bridge arriving Victoria at 0909
> Bognor/Portsmouth service arriving Victoria at 0901 is retimed to operate 2 minutes earlier from Horsham to Victoria arriving Victoria 0859. (Seems to be taking advantage of Arun Valley resignalling to run portions closer together over Arun Valley section)
> Hastings service currently arriving 0909 brought forward to arrive Victoria at 0902. This is as a result of not having to wait at East Croydon for the 0835 GatEx service to overtake.
> The 0835 Gatwick Express from Gatwick currently arriving Victoria at 0905 retimed to arrive Victoria at 0912 (as it follows the diverted Horsham service from Stoats Nest Junction).
> The Littlehampton service currently timetable to arrive 0916 is retimed to 0917.
My view is that the 0846 is cancelled for performance reasons. There is also the need to accommodate a service from Horsham arriving into Victoria at 0909 which usually goes to London Bridge which has resulted in some timetable changes around that time.
There are a few changes into Victoria between 0900 and 0920 to accommodate the Horsham service diverted from London Bridge arriving Victoria at 0909
> Bognor/Portsmouth service arriving Victoria at 0901 is retimed to operate 2 minutes earlier from Horsham to Victoria arriving Victoria 0859. (Seems to be taking advantage of Arun Valley resignalling to run portions closer together over Arun Valley section)
> Hastings service currently arriving 0909 brought forward to arrive Victoria at 0902. This is as a result of not having to wait at East Croydon for the 0835 GatEx service to overtake.
> The 0835 Gatwick Express from Gatwick currently arriving Victoria at 0905 retimed to arrive Victoria at 0912 (as it follows the diverted Horsham service from Stoats Nest Junction).
> The Littlehampton service currently timetable to arrive 0916 is retimed to 0917.
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Interesting. Sounds like the 8.46 wasn't necessary, given their us a service 4 minutes later. Perhaps overkill.
Interesting that the 8.35 will now take 37 minutes. I understand why but it does go against their 30 minute slogan and they do like to think of the Gatwick Express services as the premium services.
Interesting that the 8.35 will now take 37 minutes. I understand why but it does go against their 30 minute slogan and they do like to think of the Gatwick Express services as the premium services.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I don't know the local area around South Bermondsey but I expect a lot of people will be put off and change to LOROL at Peckham Rye for the City (after another change at Surrey Quays?).
Surrey Quays is just about walking distance from South Bermondsey. I suspect that other services via South Bermondsey in the morning peak are already full to bursting, so it won't be practical to change there for most.
87015
Established Member
It doesn't connect, it is as bad as physically possible. 0731, currently a standee full 8 car becomes...
Minus 2 / plus 13 "connection" with a 15 min service and 2 min headway.
those two service are normally packed 8 cars!
Minstral25
Established Member
Redhill getting reductions again. Already the 8:02 (ex Redhill) Tonbridge/Gatwick to London Bridge was diverted to Victoria in 2012, now the 8:30 (ex Redhill) Horsham to London Bridge going to Victoria in September. So there will be no train from 7:51 to 8:40 from Redhill to London Bridge. Which means that no direct arrival for almost an hour at London Bridge from 8:19 to 9:14
Already strong rumours that the ex-Redhill 6:33 FCC to LBG/BFR will become LBG only, and the 6:56 ex-Redhill to LBG/BFR Redhill stop is being removed. Both from January 2015 so even more misery to come probably.
Already strong rumours that the ex-Redhill 6:33 FCC to LBG/BFR will become LBG only, and the 6:56 ex-Redhill to LBG/BFR Redhill stop is being removed. Both from January 2015 so even more misery to come probably.
Minstral25
Established Member
Cheers, I look forward to that.
Around that time the 6:42 London Bridge is a 4 car train as it comes off Tonbridge (and has no excess capacity at all), the 6:46 Victoria is 8 car from Horsham, but is intended for passengers from Merstham/Coulsdon/Purley and similarly has no excess capacity.
The 6:56 is the cancelled service which was a fast train, on average this attracts between 180 and 220 passengers a day at Redhill alone (it comes from Brighton).
The 7:04 is also a fast but to Victoria, comes from Brighton and Havant so already fairly full from Redhill, normally has standing passengers from Redhill. The 7:15 and 7:23 are slows to London Bridge and Victoria respectively and are normally very overcrowded.
There are obviously going to be capacity issues with the cutting of this train - there is no room for 200 passengers on the other services. It will be interesting to see how Govia Thameslink and Govia Southern will deal with it with other timetable tweaks I do not yet know about. Trouble is at the moment they are pointing to each other as "not our problem"!!
It is noted that no other group of stations on the BML south of Croydon is seeing there service to London Bridge cut in the way the Redhill and district service is being cut. It seems if they have to divert or cut a service they are all via Redhill, yet Southern tell us more of the London demand from Redhill is towards London Bridge??
Aictos
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With the ongoing works when will the bridge just to the right of the line into London Bridge on the northern approach see track laid?
Its the bridge they put into place about 2 years back, no idea of exact location as its not a regular route of mind
Its the bridge they put into place about 2 years back, no idea of exact location as its not a regular route of mind
With the ongoing works when will the bridge just to the right of the line into London Bridge on the northern approach see track laid?
Its the bridge they put into place about 2 years back, no idea of exact location as its not a regular route of mind
That one just to the Waterloo East end of London Bridge, closest end to The Shard? I've been wondering what on earth is going on with that after passing it several times in the last 2-3 months!
Bald Rick would know for sure, but I believe, from a presentation I posted a link to on the thread below, the Borough viaduct will be brought into use from January 2016.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1850289#post1850289
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1850289#post1850289
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Aictos
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Correct. Building the missing bit of the bridge now.
On a related subject, the first track under the Bermondsey Dive under comes into use in January 2017.
mister-sparky
Member
I thought it wasn't going to be in use until everything's completed in 2018 I'm sure I read somewhere.
Nope, unless things have drastically changed
In order for work to be done between London Bridge and where the Up and Down Blackfriars Spur currently diverge, trains to and from Charing Cross will have to use Borough Viaduct.swt_passenger
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I remember a discussion about that a while back, and IIRC it turned out someone had missed the main point which was really explaining that the full four track layout through Borough Market would not be available until later on, because as soon as the new viaduct came into use the old pair of tracks would go out of use (as mentioned above).
So if someone had said something along the lines of "the full benefits of the new viaduct wouldn't be available until whenever", then that could easily lead to an incorrect assumption...
There are 2 sections 2 the new works.
The new bridge across the market and a short section on the opposite side of the track when the cannon street reversing loop comes around.
Is it possible that this 2nd section won't see any use until Thameslink trains resume running though London Bridge (in 2018 if I understand correctly)
The new bridge across the market and a short section on the opposite side of the track when the cannon street reversing loop comes around.
Is it possible that this 2nd section won't see any use until Thameslink trains resume running though London Bridge (in 2018 if I understand correctly)
swt_passenger
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I think that's part of what Temple was getting at in his earlier post - it's certainly in the same area...
Problem (as always) seems to be that some media reports cherry pick whatever part of the story meets their agenda - in this case they would possibly be aiming to prove that the works at Borough Market weren't needed (at the time of their writing), because it could have been delayed until one weekend in late 2018 - which of course completely ignores the practicalities of conducting a phased approach to the station rebuild project...
I must say I have been wondering why the work was done so early on only to be left empty for a couple of years.
I'm sure there are good reasons though.
Maybe to do with workforce being required elsewhere at the crucial moment, or to do with site access being difficult while other works are taking place nearby.
Or maybe the bridge needs time to bed-in or something weird like that?
Or maybe, given all the controversy, there was a keenness to get past the point of no return before permission was revoked?
These are all just wild guesses of course.
swt_passenger
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I think in broad terms, the Borough Market viaduct, and the resulting market rebuilding to facilitate it, was seen as a discreet job that could be done away from the operational railway. In terms of timescales I expect it fitted into a neat build slot prior to the Olympics - but it also has to be looked at in the overall redevelopment context in the locality. With all the other non-railway development in the area, such as the Shard and the Place, perhaps there's an overall timetable driven by Southwark, and the slot used fitted into the overall picture best?
One aspect of these sort of civil engineering jobs is the impact on local traffic, including diversionary routes. So it may well be that the overall sequencing is part of a wider intention to smooth out peaks and troughs in the general hassle in the area...
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