Pacers or heritage DMU?

[notadriver]

Given the choice between a heritage DMU and a pacer which would you prefer as a means of commuting every day on ?

 

[FQ]

Me, Heritage DMU for sure (101 or 117).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It would depend whether it was a Class 142 Pacer or a Class 143/144 Pacer that was offered as a choice and then if it was an ex-Merseyrail Class 142 Pacer as the ultimate sanction as an example of the class.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Good question.
It would also depend on the type of heritage DMU.
A trailer coach in a Trans-pennine cl.124 maybe would have the edge over a 144 for comfort, but most heritage DMUs, when in service, were slow, noisy, rattly, bouncy buckets of pain. Although most were still preferable to the Merseyrail pacers though (those with the grey/yellow small bolt-upright seats).

 

[455driver]

Heritage over any second generation for me.
I used to enjoy watching the driver changing gear which always seemed odd on a train.

 

[Beveridges]

Heritage DMU.

More capacity, more comfortable, better exhaust sound and you can lean out of the windows.

Ride quality is still poor though.

Pacers ars the worst things on rails.

 

[paul1609]

Id prefer a 4 REP and 4TC over the Desirslow rubbish anyday and that misses out the 442!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Heritage DMU.

More capacity, more comfortable, better exhaust sound and you can lean out of the windows.

Ride quality is still poor though.

Pacers ars the worst things on rails.

Would I be right in thinking that when the first-generation DMU arrived, there was still a great deal of jointed track ?

 

[Beveridges]

Yes. Never ridden a heritage DMU on CWR.
Both heritage DMU's and Pacers have been known to make me nauseous. Jointed track or not in the case of Pacers. The only other train that can make me feel motion sick is the Pendolino.

 

[asylumxl]

Why ask? This is a forum for rail enthusiasts and you know full well the majority of users will pick the heritage DMU. Just as you know they'd pick MK3s/MK4s over Pendos.

I'd prefer a Pacer, particularly a 143. Minus the lack of bogies they're not actually that bad. They are essentially the lightweight DMU of their era and kept a lot of lines open.

 

[edwin_m]

No modern unit can match the fug of diesel fumes that filled many heritage DMUs, or the amazing rattly windows that needed to be jammed with a bus ticket. Or the huge cloud of dust you would get if you hit one of the seat cushions (though the cushions on modern units may be just as dirty, just thinner and harder).

 

[GatwickDepress]

I've always wondered a Pacer in Brunswick green with "speed whiskers" to the front would look like...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've always wondered a Pacer in Brunswick green with "speed whiskers" to the front would look like...

Would this be the same livery that was later applied to a couple of the Class 101 units that ran out of the terminal station platforms at Manchester Piccadilly at one time prior to their subsequent withdrawal ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why ask? This is a forum for rail enthusiasts and you know full well the majority of users will pick the heritage DMU. Just as you know they'd pick MK3s/MK4s over Pendos.

I'd prefer a Pacer, particularly a 143. Minus the lack of bogies they're not actually that bad. They are essentially the lightweight DMU of their era and kept a lot of lines open.

As mentioned upthread, it would depend on what type of heritage DMU was provided as they were many and varied. 101s were the most numerous and longest-lasting, but the windows were not as deep as some so not great for young children to see out. The ones running around Manchester in the early 2000s had for the most part been refurbished in a 'cheap and cheerful' fashion, with seats only a marginal improvement on the bus benches originally fitted to the pacers. There were one or two though, that still had the interiors from the 1970s refurbishment, including declassified 1st! (IIRC the BR Green set was one, and I think the ex-Glasgow unit might have been another)- a pleasant surprise when that one showed up at HUD on a Victoria-Wakefield service, no doubt substituting for a 142 that had sat down somewhere!

If the heritage unit provided was a 141 (they could technically be described as such!) though, then I'd much rather have a 144, bouncing and draughts notwithstanding!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would this be the same livery that was later applied to a couple of the Class 101 units that ran out of the terminal station platforms at Manchester Piccadilly at one time prior to their subsequent withdrawal ?

There was at least one green unit, this was also the last to lose its centre car IIRC- it didn't have whiskers though, as a yellow warning panel was required. Besides the green one there was one (as mentioned above) that was in a blue livery with yellow and orange stripes as it had been transferred from the Glasgow area- but the majority were in Regional Railways 'three-stripe' colours- it's worth noting that they retained their RR branding complete with BR double arrow until withdrawal- FirstGroup perhaps not wishing to discredit their image by painting the 101s into their house colours or even applying a logo!

 

[sprinterguy]

There was at least one green unit, this was also the last to lose its centre car IIRC- it didn't have whiskers though, as a yellow warning panel was required.

Yep, there was just the one green unit repainted towards the end of their service: The celebrity "Daisy", number 101685, which as you say was the last to lose its centre car.

 

[fowler9]

Heritage every time. The modern units are timetabled to take much longer than the old units on my local route anyway so the increase in performance makes no difference to commuters here. Ha ha.

 

[yorksrob]

Given the choice between a heritage DMU and a pacer which would you prefer as a means of commuting every day on ?

Neither. Once a thumper man, always a thumper man !

 

[aylesbury]

Give me a class 168 anyday I had a ride on the class 121 from Risboro to Aylesbury and it was horrible . The décor was yuk the seats uncomfortable and slam doors drafty altogether not a pleasant journey.The class 117 that used to run from Aylesbury to London were okay to start with but very quickly became rrubbish to ride in many of them broke down and towards the end we had everyones cast offs and boy were they rubbish.

 

[TOCDriver]

Neither. Once a thumper man, always a thumper man !

Heritage any time. More satisfying to operate and a demon to fault find. You really did have to know your stuff with them.

 

[route:oxford]

I used to travel on heritage units between Dunblane - Glasgow/Edinburgh

They were fine going downhill.

Going uphill was a different matter. The panic acceleration out of Queen Street desperately trying to get enough momentum to enter the tunnel.

Then the oh-so-slow drag out of Bridge of Allan. What was once a 6 minute journey between Stirling & Dunblane becoming a long drag as far as Kippenross tunnel - where if you were lucky, the unit had hit 30mph.

 

[physics34]

Heritage of course and preferably a DEMU...

 

[allonby]

As somebody who stands up on 142's as part of my daily commute anything almost is better than this, so heritage for me

 

[Philip]

Perhaps Northern will make plans to bring some 101s back into passenger service to cope with the potential loss of some 158s to TPE...

Blackpool North to Man Vic by 101 in 2016??

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Even fitted with central locking, would a heritage unit be allowed on the main line in passenger service when not part of a railtour or operated by a heritage railway?

 

[fowler9]

Even fitted with central locking, would a heritage unit be allowed on the main line in passenger service when not part of a railtour or operated by a heritage railway?

Pacers get away with it so why not?

 

[Bevan Price]

In terms of passenger comfort, heritage dmus were better than any Pacer, but the heritage units were a variable lot. The Inter City types (classes 123, 119, 120, 126, etc.) and the Trans Prennine (Cl. 124) were easily the best.

Of the others, the Metro Cammell (Class 101/111) were well built, but could be very rough on all but the best track. The Cravens units (Class 105) gave a better ride, but every sliding window ventilator seemed to rattle incessantly. The BR Class 108 were not too bad, but in my opinion, the Birmingham C&W units (Class 104, 110) were the best of the "local" type - comfortable seats, fairly good ride - although the 110s could be a bit too noisy.

 

[muddythefish]

First generation DMUs certainly had a charm of their own. Although we hated them at the time because they replaced our beloved steam locos I grew to like the views from the front through the drivers cab (great for seeing freights coming the other way), the rock and roll ride and the even the diesel fumes fug through open windows in tunnels.

They also bring back fond memories of shed bashing trips in the late 1960s and early 1970s when the railways were so much busier and far more interesting than they are now.

Pacers have no redeeming features whatsoever

 

[fowler9]

First generation DMUs certainly had a charm of their own. Although we hated them at the time because they replaced our beloved steam locos I grew to like the views from the front through the drivers cab (great for seeing freights coming the other way), the rock and roll ride and the even the diesel fumes fug through open windows in tunnels.

They also bring back fond memories of shed bashing trips in the late 1960s and early 1970s when the railways were so much busier and far more interesting than they are now.

Pacers have no redeeming features whatsoever

Ha ha. Spot on chief. I had a really good trip from Hull to Doncaster on a 110. One of my favourite rail journies in fact. Think it may have been a 105 actually.

 

[yorksrob]

Heritage any time. More satisfying to operate and a demon to fault find. You really did have to know your stuff with them.

Nothing quite like rolling into platform 1 at Hastings from the Marshlink on one. Is there an emoticon for wistfull ?

 

[Firesprite]

Even fitted with central locking, would a heritage unit be allowed on the main line in passenger service when not part of a railtour or operated by a heritage railway?

The Swanage Railway's Class 117 is to be fitted with TPWS, OTMR and secondary door-locking this winter for use on trial branch services between Swanage and Wareham (Last mile being on the main line) next year.