FGW, their Twitter account, the NRCoC and a Rant.

[richw]

On the 7th June my wife was unable to travel due to being admitted to hospital due to ill health. She had pre-booked off peak returns for 7th June, Redruth - Exeter St Davids.
I tweeted FGW and asked about obtaining a refund, and was advised to take a hospital letter to the ticket office the tickets were purchased from for a refund. Twitter advised me the £10 admin fee would be avoided with a medical document taken to the station with the unused tickets. (Screen print of Tweet attached)
I went to Redruth station on the afternoon of the 6th June with medical letter from Royal Cornwall Hospital Treliske. The ticket office clerk told me that the £10 admin fee can not be waived under any circumstances, and told me to call the FGW customer service number, an 0845 number which cost me £6.00 according to my phone bill. The customer service telephone number confirmed the ticket office should waive the admin fee in the circumstances. FGW customer service number called the station office as they stood their ground that they wouldn't waive the admin fee. They continued to refuse despite the customer service team requesting they do so.
The call centre requested I send the tickets and medical documents to them and advised me I would have a refund within 14 days. I posted this to them on the 6th June.
I have today received a snobbish letter back saying they are only waiving the admin fee because of the inconvenience caused. The letter goes on to say that I shouldn't have been told the fee could be waived, as it is down to the discretion of the ticket office clerk at the point of refund.
I had a conversation with 2 members of their Twitter team, and 2 different staff members in their call centre. This has highlighted to me a fundamental process failing, where the customer service team are providing information which is completely incorrect according to their ticket office and letter based team. For the company I work for if a member of staff advised a customer something we honour it, especially where the customer has something from Twitter team, and the call centre calling the front line instructing to waive the admin fee. We would never argue it with the customer. Its for the sake of £10, not like its a big sum to FGW.
My other complaint is by the time the cheque clears we are going to have been 5 weeks since the refund was requested. Completely unacceptable in this day and age especially where the NRCoC states I should have been provided a refund by the ticket office.
I was prepared to write off the full tickets in all honesty, but once the ticket office starts arguing with me, the Twitter feed and the call centre I decide to take it on until the admin fee was waived. Arguing with the call centre was the personal highlight to me which showed customers didn't come first. The station staff kept blaming it on his area manager.
It shows to me a company not working as one team and not having a clear set out mandate or process.

I sent FGW a print out of the tweets, dates and times of my calls to their call centre, which are allegedly recorded, along with the tickets.

 

[scotsman]

So, social media gave you duff info and you were inconvenienced, but ultimately not left out of pocket as a result?

 

[richw]

So, social media gave you duff info and you were inconvenienced, but ultimately not left out of pocket as a result?

Yes I was left out of pocket. The station insisted on me calling an 0845 number, at a cost of £6.00 as the phone call was in the region of 45 minutes, plus the cost of fuel although a small amount in the whole throw of things to get to the station.
There is also my time, although not a cost, I had better things to do with about an hour-hour and a half of my life dealing with the matter.

 

[yorkie]

In future, don't buy Off Peak Returns from FGW as they don't value your custom.

Instead, buy from the Southern website, but don't collect the tickets until you are sure you are able to travel. If you change your mind, uncollected tickets are refunded in full under Southern's Money Back Guarantee.

Refund claims such as this are exactly the sort of claim Passenger Focus like to get involved with (see c2c example!), so contact them using this form.

 

[richw]

In future, don't buy Off Peak Returns from FGW as they don't value your custom.

Instead, buy from the Southern website, but don't collect the tickets until you are sure you are able to travel. If you change your mind, uncollected tickets are refunded in full under Southern's Money Back Guarantee.

Refund claims such as this are exactly the sort of claim Passenger Focus like to get involved with (see c2c example!), so contact them using this form.

Thanks Yorkie, very useful information. The only issue is no collection facility at my local station.

 

[Greenback]

When I worked for FGW the company wasn't at all keen on staff waiving the admin fee even if there were medical reasons for not travelling. I am saddened that a more enlightened view has not been adopted, although maybe it has but hasn't been communicated effectively to some stations.

I never pre book walk up tickets, however, as I don't want to find myself in a similar situation. If I did, I would follow Yorkie's excellent advice! But since there's no money to be saved I don't see an advantage in booking ahead, although sometimes it's nice to have a seat reservation on the busiest trains at the shoulder of the off peak.

 

[richw]

I never pre book walk up tickets,

They were only pre-booked to get a seat reservation as 4 weeks previously it had been standing room only all the way back from Exeter to Redruth

 

[Greenback]

They were only pre-booked to get a seat reservation as 4 weeks previously it had been standing room only all the way back from Exeter to Redruth

Yes, that's what I assumed. While I like having a seat reservation if I'm planning to travel on such trains, I'm also aware of the possibility of reservations not being put out, or someone sitting in my booked seat and refusing to move, and even, on extreme occasions, being unable to get to my seat at all due to the overcrowding (though this is usually on a short train like a 158 rather than something like a HST).

So, all in all, if I am travelling on a walk up ticket, for me, it isn't always worth pre booking. The flexibility of a walk up fare allows me the luxury of choosing whether to take a service if it's rammed. Instead, I might go and have a drink and wait for the next train if the one I want to catch is absolutely rammed. But that's just me, of course, I realise most people will want to get home as soon as possible!

 

[BestWestern]

Write back to customer services detailing your concerns, the additional cost and wasted time which you incurred, and stressing your thoughts regarding the overall level of customer service, detailing the particular issues. You may well receive a better response second time around.

 

[oversteer]

I'm pretty sure that forcing you to call an 0845 number is illegal due to the recently passed Consumer Rights Regulations

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-cuts-off-costly-calls

If this happened in June I would write a more forceful letter to FGW and demand your refund otherwise you will consider legal action..

Edit: actually just checked the regulations came into effect from 13th June.. So maybe too late for you

 

[Greenback]

Good advice in the above posts. In my view it's completely unacceptable to give you conflicting information. They need to show consistency, no matter what the policy is.

 

[richw]

Thanks for all the comments.
I felt the Twitter team and call centre were providing a great customer service. The letter now tells me all of those employees have advised wrong.
I've this morning learnt that the letters are written and sent by an outsourced company from India and are copy and stick from scripts.
The letter says they only waived the admin fee due to the inconvenience caused by the information given.
I've communicated with Ollie on their Twitter team and he has referred it to his senior manager.
I'm swaying to the fact the twitter and call centres were correct in the advise they've given me, and the scripted off shore Indian team who've sent the letter have no ability to use a mandate or own initiative from what I've learnt in the last few hours.

I have been talking to a friend who is a ticket office person elsewhere on the FGW network this morning, and he's told me his line manager has instructed them to only consider waiving the admin fee if a passenger is making a scene or kicking off. It seems I was too polite when I went to the station if this is true. I will be keeping his name and location anonymous as I'm not sure he should have given me this almost certain internal information. I couldn't "kick off" as I would fear BTP turning up!

 

[455driver]

Good advice in the above posts. In my view it's completely unacceptable to give you conflicting information. They need to show consistency, no matter what the policy is.

OT-

Maybe we should use that everywhere, IE no discretion ever etc just to make sure we are all consistent in our approach!

You cant have it both ways.

 

[richw]

OT-

Maybe we should use that everywhere, IE no discretion ever etc just to make sure we are all consistent in our approach!

You cant have it both ways.

If the original 4 people I had spoke with had said I'll get a refund less the admin fee, I would of accepted it. But having been told what to do for it to be waived, I then made an effort to get something from the hospital, which was a challenge in itself!
Four people from FGW all said the fee was waive-able with med docs that is consistency, with the person writing the letter being inconsistent. That is the view from me as a customer not knowing policies based on those 5 people I've been in contact with in their customer relations department.

 

[Greenback]

OT-

Maybe we should use that everywhere, IE no discretion ever etc just to make sure we are all consistent in our approach!

You cant have it both ways.

I've argued for that before, and was shot down in flames!

In this case, though, it seems relatively easy to have a policy that says the admin fee will be waived if medical evidence is produced that says travel as impossible. I don't know if there is such a policy on FGW, but the Twitter team seemed to think so, the station staff did not agree.

It doesn't seem to me that this is about showing discretion at all, but different parts of what is supposed to be the same organisation saying completely opposite things!

I have no idea who was right, the point is that the customer is being given totally conflicting information, regularly by the sounds of it, through different channels. Which, to me anyway, is completely different from a member of staff explaining the policy but then deciding to show discretion in enforcing or not enforcing it.

When I worked for them, at least FGW made it quite clear that admin fees were only to be waived in exceptional circumstances, such as when we had made a mistake somewhere along the line. In Reading this required the approval of one of the ticket office managers, and I recall it being granted on several occasions for various reasons.

But what we need to know is what the actual policy is now, and why such a simple thing doesn't seem to have been communicated to everyone!

 

[455driver]

In this case, though, it seems relatively easy to have a policy that says the admin fee will be waived if medical evidence is produced that says travel as impossible. I don't know if there is such a policy on FGW, but the Twitter team seemed to think so, the station staff did not agree.

I do actually agree but surely the CS team should simply quote policy rather that decide whether other staff should give discretion or not.
If it is CS that is dealing with the whole thing then they can decide if they themselves will offer discretion, they certainly shouldnt be telling other (frontline) staff what to do.

But what we need to know is what the actual policy is now, and why such a simple thing doesn't seem to have been communicated to everyone!

A simple policy!
You dont think it will be simple do you?
It would have started simple but then be rewritten 10 times with 30 different things added to it (in the name of customer service) over time making it ridiculously complicated!

 

[Greenback]

I do actually agree but surely the CS team should simply quote policy rather that decide whether other staff should give discretion or not.

I agree. What struck me originally was that they should not be promising that other staff will do something unless they had access to some written policy that says so. Assuming that such policy does exist, then why isn't the station aware of it?

If CS don't have anything that says that, they have no business in giving the info out!

If it is CS that is dealing with the whole thing then they can decide if they themselves will offer discretion, they certainly shouldnt be telling other (frontline) staff what to do.

It shouldn't be down to discretion. FGW should have better rules for their staff to follow. Discretion can still be shown within those rules, but from this sorry tale it appears that different groups of staff are following different instructions and procedure. It's a separate issue to discretion as far as I can see.

A simple policy!
You dont think it will be simple do you?
It would have started simple but then be rewritten 10 times with 30 different things added to it (in the name of customer service) over time making it ridiculously complicated!

That's probably true! lol!

 

[455driver]

This tale does sound to be one eff up after another with CS assuming discretion would be given but the person who was actually dealing with it saying it wouldnt be, maybe its time for amendment 31 to be added to the policy!

 

[dcsprior]

Out of interest, is there any system in place so that if customer services promise a customer that they'll be given something at the station over and above what they're officially entitled, the customer is told to quote something like "customer service number 2014/123456" when they turn up and the staff are able to see what has been promised?

When I worked in a shop, if a customer was to be promised something over the phone (/etc) they'd be told to quote something like that when they came in - albeit a bit more complicated as it could be recorded in a few different systems depending on how the query/complaint/order/return originated.

 

[Flamingo]

Yet another example of customer services wanting to feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and the nasty horrible man in the uniform having to be the one that says no.

I hope that the OP's wife is recovered, and in all honesty, that's more important in the big scheme of things...

 

[richw]

Yet another example of customer services wanting to feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and the nasty horrible man in the uniform having to be the one that says no.

I hope that the OP's wife is recovered, and in all honesty, that's more important in the big scheme of things...

Had CS told me take it to station refund will be given less admin fee that would have been my expectation and I would have been happy for refund less admin fee. I wouldn't have bothered with a hospital note.
Customer services need to set realistic expectations and where a customer has a twitter conversation printed out for reference, front line staff should honour that expectation that's been set.

She is ups and downs. The hospital can't find any diagnosis but admit there is an issue. She is displaying symptoms of a condition but the doctors won't test her saying she is too young to suffer that condition and have dismissed it based on her age alone. I'm currently challenging this as a local girl died from the condition recently younger than my wife is.

 

[bnm]

There is discretion given by FGW ticket office staff. A few months ago I returned an unused ticket to Bristol TM explaining I was unable to travel due to illness. The clerk said he'd waive the admin fee.

 

[Greenback]

I'd really love to know whether CS were making things up or whether there is some form of policy (maybe only in their domain) to waive fees where medical evidence is produced. The discretion could then be waiving it in the absence of such evidence.

 

[34D]

I'm pretty sure that forcing you to call an 0845 number is illegal due to the recently passed Consumer Rights Regulations

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-cuts-off-costly-calls

If this happened in June I would write a more forceful letter to FGW and demand your refund otherwise you will consider legal action..

Edit: actually just checked the regulations came into effect from 13th June.. So maybe too late for you

This is a most interesting link. Thank you. Have all toc put 01 numbers in place?

 

[Flamingo]

Had CS told me take it to station refund will be given less admin fee that would have been my expectation and I would have been happy for refund less admin fee. I wouldn't have bothered with a hospital note.
Customer services need to set realistic expectations and where a customer has a twitter conversation printed out for reference, front line staff should honour that expectation that's been set.

She is ups and downs. The hospital can't find any diagnosis but admit there is an issue. She is displaying symptoms of a condition but the doctors won't test her saying she is too young to suffer that condition and have dismissed it based on her age alone. I'm currently challenging this as a local girl died from the condition recently younger than my wife is.

Sorry to hear she's not recovered. If your gut feeling (no pun intended) is that she's not right, then keep pushing for answers. In medicine, sometimes they just look for certain boxes to be ticked, rather than the whole picture. Good luck.

 

[Qwerty133]

This is a most interesting link. Thank you. Have all toc put 01 numbers in place?

Mostly 03 numbers are being used

 

[Deerfold]

This is a most interesting link. Thank you. Have all toc put 01 numbers in place?

I noticed Northern had popped a sticker on their contact details poster at Steeton and Silsden saying "you can now contact us on 03xx xxxx xxx". Was rushing to buy a ticket so haven't recorded the number!

 

[najaB]

This is a most interesting link. Thank you. Have all toc put 01 numbers in place?

You may already know this, but almost all* 08xx numbers have a geographic number underlying them which, if you know it, you can dial directly. The only trick is finding them out - often companies publish them as "Calling from abroad then dial +44xx", though many do not.

*Edited to add: Some companies use corporate number ranges (056xxx) but these are few and far between.

 

[cuccir]

Customer services shouldn't be making promises that staff can't keep. That's clearly the underlying fault here. Bad customer service can mean not providing the adequate support, but it can also mean offering/promising too much.

That said, it is still good practice to then offer what has been promised to the customer, so long as this is not unreasonable/impossible for the staff member to do so.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm pretty sure that forcing you to call an 0845 number is illegal due to the recently passed Consumer Rights Regulations

Not illegal as such, but the Statutory Instrument bringing them into law in England and Wales (SI 2013/3134) includes the following little gem:

Help-line charges over basic rate

41.—(1) Where a trader operates a telephone line for the purpose of consumers contacting the trader by telephone in relation to contracts entered into with the trader, a consumer contacting the trader must not be bound to pay more than the basic rate.

(2) If in those circumstances a consumer who contacts a trader in relation to a contract is bound to pay more than the basic rate, the contract is to be treated as providing for the trader to pay to the consumer any amount by which the charge paid by the consumer for the call is more than the basic
rate.

Having said that, a quick look at the various tariffs offered by landline and mobile phone companies suggests that most charge the same for a call to non-geographic numbers as they do to geographic ones before any discounts/inclusive minutes are applied.