Dawlish sea wall collapse

[Rapidash]

Well what was the point of reopening the Waverley? Surely that wasn't for diversion purposes.

Shock horror, Devon and Cornwall yet again ignored in favour of other areas? Wouldn't matter if Liz herself demanded it, they'll only ever spend the minimum down here. Too many safe seats for the Tories to bother. same reason Labour didnt do much. Least the Kingskerswell bypass is finally nearing completion.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Waverley Line isn't being reopened as a through diversionary line, but as a commuter line for Edinburgh, as are parts of the Okehampton Line for Plymouth.

Perhaps Edinburgh in the eyes of the Scottish powers-that-be is not viewed in the same way at those in power at Westminster view Plymouth ?

 

[yorksrob]

Is there really much point building it if it can't be used as a diversion / replacement for the route through Dawlish when that's closed?

What would the public / press response be after spending millions of pounds on reinstating the route after this closure, only to result in there being one or two trains an hour, and every service still disrupted next time that Dawlish shuts?

The route from Exeter to Salisbury is a single track route that only has one or two trains an hour, yet it is very important during diversions and all of the rest of the time as well, so I suspect the response of the majority of people in the region would be "thank heavens".
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Are people really that surprised?

I suppose one shouldn't be surprised if yet again this pathetic little country is incapable of opening a route that is for the most part already built. It still sicks in the craw though. No wonder the Scots want rid of the dead wood.

I look forward to seeing how the figures compare with the slew of nondescript road projects that have been given the go ahead in recent years, not to mention what specifications they have built into the proposals.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The route from Exeter to Salisbury is a single track route that only has one or two trains an hour, yet it is very important during diversions and all of the rest of the time as well, so I suspect the response of the majority of people in the region would be "thank heavens".
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I suppose one shouldn't be surprised if yet again this pathetic little country is incapable of opening a route that is for the most part already built. It still sicks in the craw though. No wonder the Scots want rid of the dead wood.

I look forward to seeing how the figures compare with the slew of nondescript road projects that have been given the go ahead in recent years, not to mention what specifications they have built into the proposals.

I agree Rob, If this was a Road infrastructure project the cost would probably then be no object. Very dissappointed but then not surprised.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well what was the point of reopening the Waverley? Surely that wasn't for diversion purposes.

Apart from helping some politicians to be re-elected (allegedly), it is to service the thousands of new houses being built along the route. Can't see that happening on Dartmoor.
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Are people really that surprised?

Breaking news: a bear has been seen doing some number twos in the woods....

 

[NotATrainspott]

Is there really much point building it if it can't be used as a diversion / replacement for the route through Dawlish when that's closed?

What would the public / press response be after spending millions of pounds on reinstating the route after this closure, only to result in there being one or two trains an hour, and every service still disrupted next time that Dawlish shuts?

It would be a diversionary route that would allow Plymouth to remain connected to the rail network. Even if only 1tph were possible over the line that 1tph would still allow a regular service to Paddington or to the CrossCountry network, or a shuttle service to Exeter. If Dawlish breaches again I don't think people are going to be complaining that the emergency service provided isn't good enough, when the alternative is having none at all. A gold-plated dual-track link capable of carrying the standard service would cost so much that it would never be built so it can't provide any benefit; a cheaper, single track route is actually feasible and so does provide a benefit.

 

[Woody]

This from tonights local BBC South West news magazine program "Spotlight".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04779dw/spotlight-02072014
At the moment though its still the BBC quoting "sources" and not the final report itself yet.

 

[Starmill]

Least the Kingskerswell bypass is finally nearing completion.

Because what the town definitely need was a bypass. Rather than, you know... a station!?

 

[yorksrob]

From the TV report, it sounds as though the two diversionary routes were "shunted into the sidings" and NR were only nlooking at short but expensive cut off's.

A case of the Dawlish MP's and councillors who have lobbied so hard against the Dartmoor route cutting off their nose to spite their face ?

 

[colchesterken]

I do not understand why reinstatment projects are so expencive, the trackbed is there, it will of course need upgrading if it has not been used for 50 yrs
I think money could be saved by large reliable local contractors doing some of the work rather than international companies
There must be several companies in Devon with a couple of JCBs who could dig out and relay the bed I do not see why under N R supervision they could not relay the track. to be tamped by the experts before use, clearly the signals would require experts, I bet they could save loads of money

 

[infobleep]

Dartmoor may not have many residents but I would have thought it would be used by walkers. Whilst they alone are not a reason to open railway line, they surely help strengthen an overall case. If not then closed existing stations used mostly by walkers.

 

[Rapidash]

Because what the town definitely need was a bypass. Rather than, you know... a station!?

Oh I agree its needs a station.

Lets put it this way, in the time it has taken for a single new bypass to be built in Devon:

Soviet Russia rose, had the cold war and collapsed
Concorde was designed, built and crashed twice before leaving service
Channel tunnel built and in use for twenty years
16 different governments have fought an election, had their terms and then shuffled off again.
Beeching cuts planned and excecuted
I'm fairly certain Queen Elizabeth was still a princess when it was first talked about.
Victoria extension planned and built.

So yeah...mebbe I need to start a 'The West Country gets a rough deal' thread?!

 

[starrymarkb]

Because what the town definitely need was a bypass. Rather than, you know... a station!?

It needs a Bypass because of all the through traffic heading into Torbay. Some summer weekends it can take a couple of hours to get from Newton Abbot to Paignton. (I remember one of my old employer's mobile mechanics taking 4 hours to get from Exeter to a breakdown in Paignton one bank holiday weekend).

So a station for Kingskerswell would be nice for locals, but wouldn't solve the traffic problems! To solve that you'd have to look at why tourists bring their cars rather then use public transport.

 

[Rapidash]

Untill you face the horror of the Newton Road, you know not the horror of the Torbay Commute.

 

[starrymarkb]

Untill you face the horror of the Newton Road, you know not the horror of the Torbay Commute.

That too. Basically the main access to a conurbation of 200,000 people (Year round - pop doubles in summer) is a single carriageway through Kingskerswell (after Kingskerswell the traffic splits into Torquay and Paignton/Brixham traffic.

I should add that at the Southern end of Kingskerswell 6 lanes of traffic merge into 2 heading North.

The By-pass should help the bus service out a lot though, might reduce the vehicle requirement on the 12 if the buses can get through without being caught in the jams

 

[dysonsphere]

Oh I agree its needs a station.

Lets put it this way, in the time it has taken for a single new bypass to be built in Devon:

Soviet Russia rose, had the cold war and collapsed
Concorde was designed, built and crashed twice before leaving service
Channel tunnel built and in use for twenty years
16 different governments have fought an election, had their terms and then shuffled off again.
Beeching cuts planned and excecuted
I'm fairly certain Queen Elizabeth was still a princess when it was first talked about.
Victoria extension planned and built.



So yeah...mebbe I need to start a 'The West Country gets a rough deal' thread?!

Er only 1 concorde ever crashed Air France near Paris after fire on take off.

 

[yorksrob]

Dartmoor may not have many residents but I would have thought it would be used by walkers. Whilst they alone are not a reason to open railway line, they surely help strengthen an overall case. If not then closed existing stations used mostly by walkers.

I wouldn't mind betting that when this report eventually emerges, there will have been absolutely no consideration of the additional benefits that the route could bring to Central and North Devon, be they for tourism or the towns of Tavistock and Okehampton. As usual, the Establishment is incapable of thinking outside of silos.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wouldn't mind betting that when this report eventually emerges, there will have been absolutely no consideration of the additional benefits that the route could bring to Central and North Devon, be they for tourism or the towns of Tavistock and Okehampton.

I can guarantee that it will have. And whilst I have had no involvement in this, I would bet a princely sum that the additional benefits to Central and north Devon are in the 'not worth much' category.

 

[ExRes]

Oh I agree its needs a station.

Lets put it this way, in the time it has taken for a single new bypass to be built in Devon:

Soviet Russia rose, had the cold war and collapsed
Concorde was designed, built and crashed twice before leaving service
Channel tunnel built and in use for twenty years
16 different governments have fought an election, had their terms and then shuffled off again.
Beeching cuts planned and excecuted
I'm fairly certain Queen Elizabeth was still a princess when it was first talked about.
Victoria extension planned and built.

So yeah...mebbe I need to start a 'The West Country gets a rough deal' thread?!

Perhaps the West country only has itself to blame, after all, Queen Elizabeth did have Sir Francis Drake and Sir Walter Raleigh as local gentry

 

[tbtc]

No huge surprise.

I argued in the previous thread that there's merit in Bere Alston to Tavistock (currently five buses an hour from Plymouth to Tavistock, given the competition between First and GoAhead, so suggests that there's a decent demand)...

...however the population through Okehampton is pretty small and its very hard to justify reopening a line when the diversionary aspect seems a lot more significant than the day-to-day demand.

Are people really that surprised?

Breaking news: a bear has been seen doing some number twos in the woods....

Agreed - we'll be seeing headlines about Pope Francis and whether he's religious or not next...

It would be a diversionary route that would allow Plymouth to remain connected to the rail network

Diversionary routes really aren't as vital as enthusiasts think they are - it'd be nice to have a "plan B" for a couple of weekends a year when a line is closed for engineering, but not essential - and there are always other things (with year round benefits) that we could be spending that pot of money on.

As usual, the Establishment is incapable of thinking outside of silos.

We're seeing huge amounts of rail infrastructure spending, just most of it is being spent on everyday practical projects (rather than luxuries)

 

[TEW]

Diversionary routes really aren't as vital as enthusiasts think they are - it'd be nice to have a "plan B" for a couple of weekends a year when a line is closed for engineering, but not essential - and there are always other things (with year round benefits) that we could be spending that pot of money on.

Like the resignalling of Cornwall announced today. That's a project which should deliver real benefits every day to people using trains in the South West.

 

[Woody]

On a visit today to Long Rock depot Penzance David Cameron has said all proposed alternative rail routes to the vulnerable Dawlish line "remain on the table" despite suggestions it could cost up to £3 billion.
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...atives-table/story-21324958-detail/story.html
Ditto from the BBC South West http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04779fc/spotlight-03072014

 

[Essexman]

Untill you face the horror of the Newton Road, you know not the horror of the Torbay Commute.

I find getting on the train solves that.
OK I don't live in Torquay but have travelled down there regularly for 50 years and there have always been traffic jams. Friends used to leave at 3am and take 12 hours to drive Essex to Cornwall while we did it in half the time on the train.

Quite a few visitors do come to Torquay by train but I think that Torquay & Paignton should be doing more to market themsleves as holiday destinations where there's ample to do nearby and no need for a car.

 

[yorksrob]

I can guarantee that it will have. And whilst I have had no involvement in this, I would bet a princely sum that the additional benefits to Central and north Devon are in the 'not worth much' category.

Rest assured, I will hold you to your "guarantee" just as soon as NR can be bothered to actually publish the document.

 

[Rapidash]

I find getting on the train solves that.
OK I don't live in Torquay but have travelled down there regularly for 50 years and there have always been traffic jams. Friends used to leave at 3am and take 12 hours to drive Essex to Cornwall while we did it in half the time on the train.

Quite a few visitors do come to Torquay by train but I think that Torquay & Paignton should be doing more to market themsleves as holiday destinations where there's ample to do nearby and no need for a car.

Your suggestion for using the train is admirable, but also unrealistic. There often still gaps in the timetable, so I can either be over an hour early (no thanks) or twenty minutes late (no thanks) or take the incredibly tedious bus which is jussssst right on occasions.

A problem we have down here is that people just base assumptions on their holiday experiences - you can get a taste of it, but not the face-palming stupid whole picture.

Best bit of hilarity to come out of Torbay is they have asked an Irish firm to design, build, and then run an all year round ferry between Brixham and Torquay. They intend to launch this service in the middle of bloody autumn

As long as we don't change too much, the Horde will still come here *sigh*
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We're seeing huge amounts of rail infrastructure spending, just most of it is being spent on everyday practical projects (rather than luxuries)

How about upping the speed limit on the Torbay branch up from 40mph? Much as I enjoy the scenery, its like going at a snails pace. It feels slow in a Pacer!

 

[starrymarkb]

I find getting on the train solves that.
OK I don't live in Torquay but have travelled down there regularly for 50 years and there have always been traffic jams. Friends used to leave at 3am and take 12 hours to drive Essex to Cornwall while we did it in half the time on the train.

Quite a few visitors do come to Torquay by train but I think that Torquay & Paignton should be doing more to market themsleves as holiday destinations where there's ample to do nearby and no need for a car.

The Devon Metro trains do load well (usually 2x143. The frequency has just been increased to half hourly between Newton Abbot and Paignton (The powers that be want half hourly to Exeter subject to paths).

Agree that there needs to be a concentrated push to encourage more tourism by public transport. Though there is the issue of capacity on XC (and their fares)

 

[Rapidash]

Depending on the time of day, 2x143 can get to Newton Abbot 3/4 full and then be crush loaded to EXC. We're in the calm before the storm at the moment, so the crowding is not as much of an issue as it was last month, but come the 19th, it'll be back to the insanity!

 

[Blindtraveler]

This seams like an opportunitty badly wasted and I doubt very much we've heard the last of it. i feer however that it will take another breach of the see defences before its taken seriusly though and no matter whos got the keys of No 10 Downing Street it will, for the forseeable future be a case of Reactive not Proactive when it comes to public transport. A sad situation really that the endless dreams of flying £ signs put them off spending to prepare and develop, but when the sh*t hits the fan those £ signs have a few extra 0's after them and it doesnt bother them!

 

[yorksrob]

On a visit today to Long Rock depot Penzance David Cameron has said all proposed alternative rail routes to the vulnerable Dawlish line "remain on the table" despite suggestions it could cost up to £3 billion.
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...atives-table/story-21324958-detail/story.html
Ditto from the BBC South West http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04779fc/spotlight-03072014

The article mentioned that the options cost between £500m and £3billion.

It will be interesting to see which ones cost which !

 

[Essexman]

Depending on the time of day, 2x143 can get to Newton Abbot 3/4 full and then be crush loaded to EXC. We're in the calm before the storm at the moment, so the crowding is not as much of an issue as it was last month, but come the 19th, it'll be back to the insanity!

I was down last week and the four local trains I used Newton Abbot - Torquay - Paignton were all reasonable full. Almsot every seat taken on the 2 coach from NA connecting with 12.06 from London.

Something else that they would do well to publicise is the remarkably cheap car hire at Torquay station. I paid £20.79 for a Fiesta for one day (and they let me keep it overnight).

Travelled down by train (Pullman lunch on the way), next day on Dartmoor by car and back to London by train following day (lunch again!), stopping at Tiverton for a meeting so work paid fare! Nice hotel in Torquay(Torcroft). Wonderful trip.