Cornwall Open Top Bus Service 300 2014

[richw]

That's a very nice pic, but it's not me! I was driving on Monday 9th, that pic is from yesterday (Tues 10th).

definitely better for a picture than the Beaver that was out last week on the 547! The same Flickr member got a Beaver last week at Godrevy.

 

[SWTH]

True that.

Tomorrow LFJ 858W should be out again on the 547, subject to the usual caveats. If I get chance, it may even be clean....

 

[richw]

True that.

Tomorrow LFJ 858W should be out again on the 547, subject to the usual caveats. If I get chance, it may even be clean....

Will you be at the helm tomorrow? I'm working all day so won't get a chance to see it, but every time it's out it seems it finds it's way on Flickr!
No doubt when I go out for some photos something less interesting will show up. Last time I pictured it I think Mark was at the wheel!

 

[SWTH]

Should be. Hoping it'll stay nice and sunny.

 

[richw]

Should be. Hoping it'll stay nice and sunny.

It's supposed to be hotter tomorrow, my car optimistically displayed 32C when I finished work at 6 this evening. No aircon on the VR I guess.

 

[SWTH]

An American lady asked me to turn on the air con last Sunday on an MPD. I stopped the bus and opened the windows.

 

[richw]

An American lady asked me to turn on the air con last Sunday on an MPD. I stopped the bus and opened the windows.

Brilliant! Do any of your fleet there have air con?

 

[SWTH]

A few of the ex-London machines (the Tridents and a couple of the MPD's) have a small A/C unit in the cab for the drivers, but none have full saloon air con. The last vehicles so equipped were the Truro P&R Citaros.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's supposed to be hotter tomorrow, my car optimistically displayed 32C when I finished work at 6 this evening. No aircon on the VR I guess.

VRs have air con.....sadly from gaps around the rear wheel arches

 

[Busaholic]

True that.

Tomorrow LFJ 858W should be out again on the 547, subject to the usual caveats. If I get chance, it may even be clean....

Was that you driving it this p.m. at 3.50 on the Hayle Bypass/ I flashed my headlights and waved.

 

[matt_splat]

the driver I had on the 300 today really was having a bad time with the bus he did the the 11:47 ish off lands end arrived late the 1 driver didn't wait for it he left and I expect hopped to transfer any passengers in sennan.

we arrived late into st ives the controller gave the driver a bit of stick then they swapped and away the bus went.

on the subject of the MPDs with western greyhound had a poor driver tonight 30 mins late on the 555 back to Padstow driver pulled up "sorry i'm late folks but just doesn't like hills" he was almost 40 down when he got to Padstow hope he made it back to Newquay in the end

 

[SWTH]

No, wasn't me on the 547 today.

on the subject of the MPDs with western greyhound had a poor driver tonight 30 mins late on the 555 back to Padstow driver pulled up "sorry i'm late folks but just doesn't like hills" he was almost 40 down when he got to Padstow hope he made it back to Newquay in the end

MPD 205 by any chance?

 

[Busaholic]

Not directly related to the 300, but at 18.45 today a convoy of three 17/17B passed me in Long Rock from the Penzance direction. The first was a President on a 17 blinded St Ives via Crowlas, immediately behind was a 17B to St Ives via Marazion and the third was an out-of-service opentopper from the 17B going back to the depot. To add to this, about 5 minutes later in Penzance's main street the last open top 1 of the day was bound for the bus station.

Getting home, looked at timetable on First website and discovered the 17 was only meant to run from 7th September i.e. after 17B finishes for summer, in the same timings from Penzance!

 

[matt_splat]

I think it was 205 was told it did a trip up from Newquay at 9:05 and the driver reported issues with it really didn't like the hill out of little petherick.

the white darts seem very nippy on the other hand if it ends up on the 555 again in the news few days could really struggle busses having to take a lengthy diversion due to a road closure at little petherick one this afternoon was almost 30 mins late.

I did a 1a and a 300 yesterday both very busy the driver struggled to keep to time on the 300 I don't think he was enjoying the gear changes too much the inspector at st ives made some very funny calls for passengers when it went to go and also enjoyed winding the driver up that was on it.

 

[Busaholic]

Opentopper on the coast road this afternoon albeit on the 10, doing a rounder Penzance to Pendeen via St Just. Would have taken a trip myself if I'd known about it in advance.

 

[Birdbrain]

Is there any truth behind the rumour that a VR might be used on the 300 on the days when the FLF isn't running?

 

[Busaholic]

Is there any truth behind the rumour that a VR might be used on the 300 on the days when the FLF isn't running?

First are not only marketing the route as being operated by a 'vintage bus' but also charging premium fares on that basis (£10 per single trip or £5 for pensioners) so could be in a Trade Descriptions Act situation if they operated anything else except in extremis.

 

[richw]

First are not only marketing the route as being operated by a 'vintage bus' but also charging premium fares on that basis (£10 per single trip or £5 for pensioners) so could be in a Trade Descriptions Act situation if they operated anything else except in extremis.

The volvo citybuses could probably be argued as being vintage.

 

[Birdbrain]

I had read the FLF was only to be used on Fridays and Weekends. Not sure how much of this is true. Would go down there if a new a Vr would be operating.

 

[Busaholic]

The volvo citybuses could probably be argued as being vintage.[/QUOTE

Not sure clapped-out counts as vintage

 

[richw]

The volvo citybuses could probably be argued as being vintage.[/QUOTE

Not sure clapped-out counts as vintage

Clapped out is something they aren't. The citybuses are in great condition especially compared to the rest of the fleet
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I had read the FLF was only to be used on Fridays and Weekends. Not sure how much of this is true. Would go down there if a new a Vr would be operating.

Western greyhounds VR is operating on their 547 route, check with SWTH details as he frequently drives it,

 

[Goldfish62]

First are not only marketing the route as being operated by a 'vintage bus' but also charging premium fares on that basis (£10 per single trip or £5 for pensioners) so could be in a Trade Descriptions Act situation if they operated anything else except in extremis.

£10 single?! What's the point of that when you can travel on the 300 with a £10 Ride Cornwall ticket? Incidentally how are Ride Cornwall and First day tickets issued on the 300? They must be issued as the publicity states that they can be bought on any bus.

 

[Greenback]

The point is to extract maximum revenue from those who think they are getting a tourist style ride on a vintage bus!

To be fair, most of the users will be tourists just taking a scenic ride.

 

[Busaholic]

£10 single?! What's the point of that when you can travel on the 300 with a £10 Ride Cornwall ticket? Incidentally how are Ride Cornwall and First day tickets issued on the 300? They must be issued as the publicity states that they can be bought on any bus.

There isn't any point in the £10 single- it's only quoted by First in the context of the 'special' half fare for passholders of £5. I suppose a fare of £5 for what used to be free is 'special ' alright! Incidentally, the 300 leaflet only mentions the non-validity of free fares in the tiniest possible print - I am blessed with excellent eyesight for my age and I only saw it because I was looking for it.

Do wonder whether First shouldn't just have bitten the bullet and run the circular, open-top 300 for the summer as a commercial route without pensioners' free fares, charging them £5 as with the truncated route.Bet they would have ended up making more for themselves, especially if the wonderful weather continues, than on the current dog's dinner of an arrangement.

On the subject of what is a vintage bus, don't the DVLA apply a 40 year rule and then there's no road tax to pay. So all Lodekkas would qualify and if First can't find enough of these I believe they still own the odd Routemaster which most enthusiasts and the majority of passengers would, I am sure, find acceptable.

 

[SWTH]

The historic tax class isn't applicable if the vehicle is used for hire or reward. That said I do know of a few operators who try and get away with it....

 

[South Westerly]

There isn't any point in the £10 single- it's only quoted by First in the context of the 'special' half fare for passholders of £5. I suppose a fare of £5 for what used to be free is 'special ' alright! Incidentally, the 300 leaflet only mentions the non-validity of free fares in the tiniest possible print - I am blessed with excellent eyesight for my age and I only saw it because I was looking for it.

Do wonder whether First shouldn't just have bitten the bullet and run the circular, open-top 300 for the summer as a commercial route without pensioners' free fares, charging them £5 as with the truncated route.Bet they would have ended up making more for themselves, especially if the wonderful weather continues, than on the current dog's dinner of an arrangement.
.

The £10 fare is the Cornwall Day Ticket, and set at half fare for Concessionary Customers.

You may well wonder, but First have already publically stated that they ran it last year, with Council financial support for the beginning and end of the season, with lots of concessionary customers, and that it didn't cover its costs. Dogs dinner to you maybe, but for most people wanting to get an open top bus ride, or wanting to get to Lands End, the open top 1 and 17 fit the bill, and are hourly now instead of 2 hourly on the 300 previously. First have saved resources by doing that, and the 1 and 17 are still valid for concessionary travel. the word is that they have also done very well with passenger numbers in terms of the current arrangement over the previous year. Dog's dinner to you, financial success for First, which is after all a business.

 

[SWTH]

From experience I can say that not taking concessionary passes at all (not even a discounted rate) seriously harms the passenger numbers. Having observed the numbers of people using the 1/17/300, I would say First have got it right.

 

[Busaholic]

If First and Cornwall Council had not tried to pull wool over people's eyes concerning the operation of the 300 this summer and its non-operation from Easter to Whit as well as September then I might have more sympathy. All the local publicity down here had to be gleaned from that supplied to the S.W. Traffic Commissioners by First or, conversely, bits of route tjat had NOT been applied for, so for First to say incorrect impressions were being given was disingenuous, hence the distinct impression of a botched job in supplying a suitable 'vintage' vehicle for the 300.

The logic of saying that many people with concessionary passes are willing nevertheless to pay a £5 fare (or£10 return thus bringing it up to the maximum fare for anyone) must mean that many more would have been willing to pay £ 5 for a much longer and more varied journey. Yes, First would then lose the concessionary fare reimbursement from the 1 and 17B but this should be more than compensated from the extra £5s. I'm not advocating any of this, just pointing out that a different way of arranging things was possible.

If numbers are holding up I'm very pleased but would say that the recent weather has been completely favourable, always a deciding factor on long open top services. My own observations, admittedly only from within a few miles either side of Penzance, have not borne this out until yesterday when I saw a 17B with a pretty full load on top and I see lots of journeys from where I'm based right up to last bus.

 

[South Westerly]

If First and Cornwall Council had not tried to pull wool over people's eyes concerning the operation of the 300 this summer and its non-operation from Easter to Whit as well as September then I might have more sympathy. All the local publicity down here had to be gleaned from that supplied to the S.W. Traffic Commissioners by First or, conversely, bits of route tjat had NOT been applied for, so for First to say incorrect impressions were being given was disingenuous, hence the distinct impression of a botched job in supplying a suitable 'vintage' vehicle for the 300.

The logic of saying that many people with concessionary passes are willing nevertheless to pay a £5 fare (or£10 return thus bringing it up to the maximum fare for anyone) must mean that many more would have been willing to pay £ 5 for a much longer and more varied journey. Yes, First would then lose the concessionary fare reimbursement from the 1 and 17B but this should be more than compensated from the extra £5s. I'm not advocating any of this, just pointing out that a different way of arranging things was possible.

If numbers are holding up I'm very pleased but would say that the recent weather has been completely favourable, always a deciding factor on long open top services. My own observations, admittedly only from within a few miles either side of Penzance, have not borne this out until yesterday when I saw a 17B with a pretty full load on top and I see lots of journeys from where I'm based right up to last bus.

Who says it isn't going to operate in September? At the end of the day, it's First's financial risk. When a Council stops paying for something, then takes away free travel there will inevitably be a reduction in the viability of the route concerned. You can surmise that enough people would pay £5, but it's not your money that First are gambling, it's theirs.

It's well known that the tendering process has been long drawn out and that the operators have had to endure ongoing uncertainty in being able to plan their businesses. It's also a fact that the late award of tenders with the necessity for short notice registrations and all that needed to be done in terms of commercial service considerations and implementation of service changes, had to be crammed into four weeks.

There are two over riding points that should be made.

The First is that Cornwall County Council is one of very few Councils that continues to value and fund an extensive network of tendered bus routes. In many other parts they have gone altogether or been decimated. Despite the delayed contracting, all credit to Cornwall for ensuring that the majority of Cornwall's buses are still running.

The second is that First hasn't given up on the 300 and open top operation in the face of consecutive seasons' poor financial returns, the loss of funding at the beginning and end of the season, and the decision to remove the 300 from the concessionary scheme.

It's very easy to sit of the side lines pontificating on what First should do and how they should spend their money, but at the end of the day it is a private business that takes its own decisions on what to risk money running. Indeed, the word is that it has turned the corner from being continuously loss making to a position where it is now a viable business, so they must be getting something right. Indeed if that is the case, then the future of bus services in West Cornwall is a lot more secure.

 

[Busaholic]

Who says it isn't going to operate in September? At the end of the day, it's First's financial risk. When a Council stops paying for something, then takes away free travel there will inevitably be a reduction in the viability of the route concerned. You can surmise that enough people would pay £5, but it's not your money that First are gambling, it's theirs.

It's well known that the tendering process has been long drawn out and that the operators have had to endure ongoing uncertainty in being able to plan their businesses. It's also a fact that the late award of tenders with the necessity for short notice registrations and all that needed to be done in terms of commercial service considerations and implementation of service changes, had to be crammed into four weeks.

There are two over riding points that should be made.

The First is that Cornwall County Council is one of very few Councils that continues to value and fund an extensive network of tendered bus routes. In many other parts they have gone altogether or been decimated. Despite the delayed contracting, all credit to Cornwall for ensuring that the majority of Cornwall's buses are still running.

The second is that First hasn't given up on the 300 and open top operation in the face of consecutive seasons' poor financial returns, the loss of funding at the beginning and end of the season, and the decision to remove the 300 from the concessionary scheme.

It's very easy to sit of the side lines pontificating on what First should do and how they should spend their money, but at the end of the day it is a private business that takes its own decisions on what to risk money running. Indeed, the word is that it has turned the corner from being continuously loss making to a position where it is now a viable business, so they must be getting something right. Indeed if that is the case, then the future of bus services in West Cornwall is a lot more secure.

This will be my last post on this thread as opinions other than those of a clique are obviously not welcomed.

First themselves have registered the summer services until the end of August, have already said they would not operate outside the peak and all their leaflets give an end date. If they then continued them they would look like hypocrites, but perhaps if every journey is as jampacked as some are implying (and I'd love them to be) and the weather is good, as it often is in Cornwall in September, then they'll probably do what they've done in the past and run the open-toppers on the ordinary 1s and 17s.

We may be fortunate in having more tendered services in Cornwall than in some areas but this is only because of pressure applied on councillors and, through them, council officials. By the way, Cornwall Council is so-called because it is a unitary authority without County in its name and this is not a pedantic point, it means all councillors are aware they can and must have a bearing on decisions made. It has also changed from one party's control to another twice in its first few years of existence rather than being the fiefdom of just one Cornwall Council's own public transport website says that the vast majority of services in the west of the county are run commercially, unlike the eastern part, so they should bear this imbalance in mind before cutting here.

First probably have turned a corner with more enlightened leadership at higher levels, but (mixing metaphors) when scraping along the bottom the only way is up or out and the financial pages certainly still don't preclude the latter yet.

Before you get too carried away with your own praise of the current set-up down here just google Mark Howarth's name and bus cuts and see what he, as a proprietor of an award-winning proprietor of a bus company, had the guts to say about Cornwall Council, probably to his ultimate detriment.