Cornwall Open Top Bus Service 300 2014

[andyc20050]

Posted 20mins ago on First Cornwall Facebook



Recent local media reports are creating a belief that a big cut in additional seasonal bus services in West Cornwall this year is planned, particularly in respect of open top services. This simply is untrue. There are changes planned, and these are explained here, with the key reasons for those changes:-
• In previous years, First Kernow has operated the 300 route, running as a circular linking St Ives, Marazion (for St Michael’s Mount), Penzance, Lands End and then via the north coast back to St Ives
• Although undoubtedly popular on fine days, demand fluctuates significantly according to the weather. The service has struggled overall to cover the costs of the resources needed to run it
• Two events have occurred this year which contribute to our review of the service. The first is Cornwall Council’s understandable decision to withdraw support funding for the early (Easter to Whitsun) and late (September) season of operation, due to its budgetary constraints. The second is that seasonal services run primarily for tourism purposes do not automatically qualify for concessionary fare reimbursement, and the Council has advised it will not pay us for accepting passes on the service. This is expected to have a significant adverse impact on the numbers travelling
• We therefore have constructed a plan which improves the overall efficiency of the operation by eliminating duplication between the regular and open top services where they run in parallel. This actually has enabled us to bolster the service coverage on the most popular sections of the route
• The former 300 circular route will now be served in three separate sections:-
- St Ives – Marazion – Penzance (17B), every hour each way
- Penzance – Lands End (1/1A), every hour each way
- Lands End – St Just – St Ives (300), 3 journeys each way per day
• Most journeys on 17B and 1/1A will be run with open top buses, giving a higher frequency of open top service than last year and before
• For 2014, we are trialling the use of a vintage double deck bus on the 300 serving the north coast route between Lands End and St Ives. In fine weather, we may switch this to open top operation
• Concessionary passes will be fully valid on 1/1A and 17B, but not on 300, although we will offer a commercial, non-subsidised discount to passholders wishing to travel
• Services will connect across Penzance and Lands End in both directions, allowing customers to continue their journey around the circular route formed by these three services
Timetables will be published on our website very shortly. We are also producing a West Cornwall Explorers guide which will be available for when the 300 route launches for the summer from 24 May (and will also include the 1/1A and 17/17B)

Andy

 

[richw]

Looks like the lands end to st Ives is going to be a Bristol Lodekka from today's postings by first on facebook, they blanked the registration out so no identification unfortunately.

 

[83G/84D]

It is at Camborne and was reportedly test driven by a senior driver on Thursday evening,he said to me that it needs a bit of work doing on it. He said gear changes were not the easiest!

I'll look out for it over the weekend.

There were also two VR's at Penzance a few days ago.

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like the lands end to st Ives is going to be a Bristol Lodekka from today's postings by first on facebook, they blanked the registration out so no identification unfortunately.

It's been worked out as Crosville Motor Service's ex Isle of Wight Bristol Lodekka YDL 318 which is nice if not little bit on the slower side compared to a VR though, but good on First for doing this anyway. I'd rather have a Lodekka over a Volvo Citybus or Oly anyday!

 

[83G/84D]

It's been worked out as Crosville Motor Service's ex Isle of Wight Bristol Lodekka YDL 318 which is nice if not little bit on the slower side compared to a VR though, but good on First for doing this anyway. I'd rather have a Lodekka over a Volvo Citybus or Oly anyday!

That might be the one in the facebook photo however 824 KDV is the example at Camborne.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In a further development on this thread an open top Routemaster "510 CLT" is at Camborne this morning along with the Lodekka 824 KDV.

I have this shown as a First Berkshire bus.

Why would First replace a 1987 Volvo Citybus that can be one man operated with a 1962 Routemaster that needs a conductor on the 300 (if that is the intention)?

 

[extendedpaul]

As I started this thread linked to my trip to Cornwall I'm pleased to say that First had an open top bus on the 1/1A round trip on Wednesday. The route was slightly different to the 300, which was a bonus, and it was a great trip on a lovely day.

Timetable is really tight. Scheduled for 50 minutes in each direction but took over an hour without any specific hold ups and not particularly busy.

 

[Goldfish62]

There are two reasons why the 300/1/17B are structured as such this year, and we have First Kernow to thanks for being savvy enough to do it.

- revised concessionary fares rules mean that councils do not have to accept the national cocnessionary fares scheme on such services.
- changes to BSOG last October means that seasonal services no longer qualify.

First have therefore taken the shortest unique section of the seasonal 300 and registered it as such. This route doesn't accept concessionary passes (although First, commercially, offer a discount), and doesn't get BSOG.

The 1 and 17 are registered as enhancements to the existing year-round services, thus qualify for BSOG and accept concessionary passes.

All-in-all it's the best possible solution.

 

[richw]

That might be the one in the facebook photo however 824 KDV is the example at Camborne.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In a further development on this thread an open top Routemaster "510 CLT" is at Camborne this morning along with the Lodekka 824 KDV.

I have this shown as a First Berkshire bus.

Why would First replace a 1987 Volvo Citybus that can be one man operated with a 1962 Routemaster that needs a conductor on the 300 (if that is the intention)?

I've heard 510CLT is only here for a week on short term loan whilst the Lodekka is readied for service as wasn't ready in time for service.

 

[83G/84D]

I've heard 510CLT is only here for a week on short term loan whilst the Lodekka is readied for service as wasn't ready in time for service.

Thanks that confirms what I was told (post #33). 824 KDV is still at Camborne this morning.

 

[83G/84D]

Latest update regards the Lodekka:-

It is still based at Camborne at the moment and is still being used on training duties whilst some issues are sorted regards it's tax disc relating to being able to carry fare paying passengers (don't ask me for further information on this as I don't know - this was all I was told).

Eventually it will move to Penzance for use on the 300 however it will only be used up to three days a week as it is quite a strain on the bus and the driver on this route. Both have to be looked after!

I was told it will be decided what days it will be used at short notice depending on the condition of the bus, maintenance requirements and availability of drivers.

As said on earlier posts the Routemaster was only short term cover and departed back to Bracknell a week or more ago.

If the FLF is unavailable for a longer period of time no replacement vintage bus will be sought and the Volvo Citybuses will be used.

Having said that I would have thought a VR would be an ideal wet weather replacement, much easier to drive but I am not sure if there are still any at Penzance at the moment.

 

[richw]

Latest update regards the Lodekka:-

It is still based at Camborne at the moment and is still being used on training duties whilst some issues are sorted regards it's tax disc relating to being able to carry fare paying passengers (don't ask me for further information on this as I don't know - this was all I was told).

Eventually it will move to Penzance for use on the 300 however it will only be used up to three days a week as it is quite a strain on the bus and the driver on this route. Both have to be looked after!

I was told it will be decided what days it will be used at short notice depending on the condition of the bus, maintenance requirements and availability of drivers.

As said on earlier posts the Routemaster was only short term cover and departed back to Bracknell a week or more ago.

If the FLF is unavailable for a longer period of time no replacement vintage bus will be sought and the Volvo Citybuses will be used.

Having said that I would have thought a VR would be an ideal wet weather replacement, much easier to drive but I am not sure if there are still any at Penzance at the moment.

I've seen pictures of a VR at Penzance depot on Flickr over the last week. I cant seem to find them now though. It was probably one of the preservation groups using the facilities I guess.

 

[matt_splat]

I think the penzance vrs belong to a depot manager?

 

[Goldfish62]

I think the penzance vrs belong to a depot manager?

Correct.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Latest update regards the Lodekka:-

It is still based at Camborne at the moment and is still being used on training duties whilst some issues are sorted regards it's tax disc relating to being able to carry fare paying passengers (don't ask me for further information on this as I don't know - this was all I was told).

I can only assume that while it has a Class VI MOT it is taxed as PLG (which is fine for free running days). To carry fare-payers it needs its taxation class changed to Bus. This can only be done via the local DVLA office, ie Bristol. Quickest way is in person - by post takes an age.

As I say, that's my assumption.

 

[South Westerly]

Correct.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I can only assume that while it has a Class VI MOT it is taxed as PLG (which is fine for free running days). To carry fare-payers it needs its taxation class changed to Bus. This can only be done via the local DVLA office, ie Bristol. Quickest way is in person - by post takes an age.

As I say, that's my assumption.

That's right, but remember that all the local dvla offices have been closed, so post to Swansea it was...!!!

 

[richw]

That's right, but remember that all the local dvla offices have been closed, so post to Swansea it was...!!!

I was about to ask what's wrong with Truro and Exeter DVLA offices rather than Bristol when it dawned on me everything has to be by post to Swansea now.
Changing my plate over used to be completed in 3-4 days when I could pop into Truro, the last time I changed it over by post to Swansea took 15 days.

 

[Busaholic]

This is my first post in any forum anywhere, so apologies in advance if I don't get the format right.

Living in Penzance, I get many opportunities to see the local bus scene.

Haven't yet seen any 300s so can't comment on what bus is being used.
After 2 weeks of supposed open-toppers on the 1/1A can only say that many through journeys have been worked by single deckers, whereas some 'shorts' at the Penzance end to Sheffield (not that one!) have been open-top, but of course this could be traffic delays causing problems on a tight schedule.
The 17B after one week I'd only seen open tops til last night when a closed top appeared in Marazion.The ordinary 17 is also seeing plenty of open toppers.
Pretty sure the 300 is being worked from Camborne depot, if from Penzance I'd have seen it at some stage.

Now, on to the 547. This Western Greyhound Summer-only route between Newquay and St Ives was also put onto the list of routes that Cornwall Council was refusing to reimburse concessionary pass fares on. It has just begun again, with a sole return trip, but from July until it comes off at the end of September it is being extended from St Ives on a one-way loop via the 300 to Lands End then much as the old 300 to Penzance and back to St Ives. Operation is promised mostly by a low-floor decker, in which case Penzance will see a first (I believe) scheduled such bus!

In the meantime, two days ago a W.G. VR showing 300 on the front, but still with old 501 Penzance- Lands End poster on side, was seen charging empty along the Hayle bypass.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, on my last post meant to say the VR had 547 on front.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is my first post in any forum anywhere, so apologies in advance if I don't get the format right.

Living in Penzance, I get many opportunities to see the local bus scene.

Haven't yet seen any 300s so can't comment on what bus is being used.
After 2 weeks of supposed open-toppers on the 1/1A can only say that many through journeys have been worked by single deckers, whereas some 'shorts' at the Penzance end to Sheffield (not that one!) have been open-top, but of course this could be traffic delays causing problems on a tight schedule.
The 17B after one week I'd only seen open tops til last night when a closed top appeared in Marazion.The ordinary 17 is also seeing plenty of open toppers.
Pretty sure the 300 is being worked from Camborne depot, if from Penzance I'd have seen it at some stage.

Now, on to the 547. This Western Greyhound Summer-only route between Newquay and St Ives was also put onto the list of routes that Cornwall Council was refusing to reimburse concessionary pass fares on. It has just begun again, with a sole return trip, but from July until it comes off at the end of September it is being extended from St Ives on a one-way loop via the 300 to Lands End then much as the old 300 to Penzance and back to St Ives. Operation is promised mostly by a low-floor decker, in which case Penzance will see a first (I believe) scheduled such bus!

In the meantime, two days ago a W.G. VR showing 300 on the front, but still with old 501 Penzance- Lands End poster on side, was seen charging empty along the Hayle bypass.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, on my last post meant to say the VR had 547 on front.

The 1/1A workings that go via Lamorna Wink have to use single deckers due to the turn in the pub car park. I can see this causing loading issues in the height of the summer as one of these workings, out from Penzance at about 1500 returns from Lands End on a late afternoon working which is bound to be very busy.

The 300 is currently usually open-top Olympians/Volvos, operating from Penzance depot. Once driver-training has been completed on the FLF it will transfer to Penzance for the 300 - but only operating a few times a week.

Penzance has seen low-floor deckers for the past few years in the form of First Kernow's ex-London Tridents. Also, in the latter days of WGL in the area, Tridents appeared on the 501.

 

[Busaholic]

Thanks, Goldfish62. Despite my moniker I am more interested in bus routes than the buses themselves, especially as the buses of my youth are just a distant memory, and my real interest as a Londoner-in-exile is of goings-on in the capital. Admit it had escaped my notice that First Kernow had finally entered the modern era and managed to intersperse the odd low-floor decker amongst the usual superannuated junk.

I don't however believe that the 'iconic' 300 is lost forever, just for this summer. It doesn't have to be run by First - Western Greyhound's 547 extension shows initiative and could lead to something more extensive next year. Also, being cynical, the few weeks before a General Election could suddenly see a few politicians take an interest in bus services, especially if there is anecdotal or even factual evidence that businesses in Penwith have suffered from the withdrawal of the proper 300. Liberal Democrats run the despised Cornwall Council, with backing from some so-called independents, and the local MP is a LD. I would think any votes they could garner would be welcomed in their present parlous state.

Incidentally, it may not have been noticed in the furore over the 300, but a 'new' 7 bus service has been commissioned by Cornwall Council to run a few journeys a day (not Sundays) between Lands End and Zennor, run by West Penwith Community Bus, probably as a sop for them being removed from the 509 and 515 services they'd taken over temporarily last November when Western Greyhound quit the local bus scene. Together with the very few journeys on First's 16 between Zennor and St Ives it does mean that all roads covered by the 300 still have buses.

One last thing on the 300 - there is a mysterious extra journey Sundays and Bank Holidays only both ways,breaking at St Just. This requires an extra bus, presumably off the 300, this extra bus doing a 'round' between Lands End and St Just. It is scheduled in such a way that the two buses will not meet on the coast road, but at St Just's lavishly-equipped bus station, where 'through' passengers will presumably be asked to transfer.

 

[Busaholic]

I've got so used to seeing tired old First Kernow deckers around that I don't notice when a late 20th Century one gets interspersed, for which apologies. It's the result of my lifelong interest in bus routes not being matched by fascination for the buses themselves these days, the Old Codger syndrome I suppose.

As for the 300, it may have gone in its old form for this summer, but there's no reason it might not be resurrected next year, particularly with political parties of all hues making extravagant promises before a General Election! It needn't necessarily be worked by First either.

Incidentally, when I took up with Cornwall Council the non-acceptance of concessionary passes when local people used the 300 to get from,say, St Just to Zennor,I was told that all of the roads it traversed were covered by other bus services. When I pointed out the untruth of this statement I received no reply. Lo and behold, a couple of weeks later CC announced a new route 7 linking Lands End and Zennor a handful of times on weekdays (Zennor to St Ives is already 'covered' sparsely by First's 16 route). The 7 is worked by West Penwith Community Bus, presumably using the vehicle they used on the 509 and 515 taken over from Western Greyhound last November and now allocated to different operators by CC. Mind you, finding a timetable for this or any of the other non-First operations is not easy. First has produced its own all-C ornwall timetable for the first time but the council hasn't come out with one yet while two days ago WP Community Bus on their website was neither acknowledging they no longer run the 509/515 nor the existence of the 7!

 

[richw]

Now, on to the 547. This Western Greyhound Summer-only route between Newquay and St Ives was also put onto the list of routes that Cornwall Council was refusing to reimburse concessionary pass fares on. It has just begun again, with a sole return trip, but from July until it comes off at the end of September it is being extended from St Ives on a one-way loop via the 300 to Lands End then much as the old 300 to Penzance and back to St Ives. Operation is promised mostly by a low-floor decker, in which case Penzance will see a first (I believe) scheduled such bus!

In the meantime, two days ago a W.G. VR showing 300 on the front, but still with old 501 Penzance- Lands End poster on side, was seen charging empty along the Hayle bypass.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, on my last post meant to say the VR had 547 on front.

The 547 was LFJ858W again today, or at least the display suggested this.

 

[SWTH]

The 547 was LFJ858W again today, or at least the display suggested this.

It certainly was. Yours truly at the helm.

A slight correction - the 547 goes no further than St Ives. The loop to Lands End and back has not been granted permission yet by the TC.

 

[Busaholic]

It certainly was. Yours truly at the helm.

A slight correction - the 547 goes no further than St Ives. The loop to Lands End and back has not been granted permission yet by the TC.

W.G.'s website about two weeks ago stated the 547 timetable could not yet be posted because the TC had not approved it, but a short time afterwards it appeared so assumed it has now been approved. It'll be great to see a Western Greyhound in Penzance again, especially a decker. Note that the Bus Station is not being used, instead a rather vague Penzance Promenade is given as a timing point. Hope this means it travelling the full length of the prom over Ross Bridge (wonderful photo-op with St Michael's Mount in the background). From W.G.' s map it appears after Marazion not to do the loop via Marazion by=pass unlike the 17B but to reverse opposite Marazion Cemetery and go through the narrow streets of the town again, but I'd imagine any WG driver with local knowledge will ignore this!

What would be great on its first extended journey would be to see it operated by the Routemaster with Mark Howarth at the helm, as the last journey into PZ by WG in November was so marked.

 

[SWTH]

Like many things with WGL, wait for it to actually happen - those of us 'downstairs' at Summercourt have had no notification yet that the route is going to be extended.

The whole loop idea is a complete farce anyway in my opinion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interestingly there is a registration under S3.1 of Notices & Proceedings issued 10th June 2014 for the 547:

PH0006741/117

WESTERN GREYHOUND LTD, WESTERN HOUSE, ST. AUSTELL STREET, SUMMERCOURT NEWQUAY TR8 5DR
From: ST IVES ( THE MALAKOFF )
To: LANDS END
Via:
Name or No: 547
Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 04-Jul-2014
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY ONE JOURNEY

I've highlighted an interesting point: the Lands End loop is only running Monday to Friday. Given the 547 runs Monday to Sunday with the same timetable each day, it is very strange to therefore only register the loop on weekdays and then have the vehicle sat idle at the weekends.

 

[richw]

It certainly was. Yours truly at the helm.

A slight correction - the 547 goes no further than St Ives. The loop to Lands End and back has not been granted permission yet by the TC.

Did you enjoy your McDs then?

 

[SWTH]

Had lunch at the Loggans Moor as my wife came to see me - had McFlurries for pudding though!

 

[richw]

Had lunch at the Loggans Moor as my wife came to see me - had McFlurries for pudding though!

I tried photographing the VR but couldn't get a good shot due to other vehicles. You've been caught by several of my Flickr contacts on the road though!

 

[SWTH]

Can you provide a link please?

 

[richw]

Can you provide a link please?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197...zXh-8yZTUU-89wuCn-7WdRUV-7W5poZ-7UQ2uG-7ULfrV

 

[SWTH]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197...zXh-8yZTUU-89wuCn-7WdRUV-7W5poZ-7UQ2uG-7ULfrV

That's a very nice pic, but it's not me! I was driving on Monday 9th, that pic is from yesterday (Tues 10th).

 

[Goldfish62]

Like many things with WGL, wait for it to actually happen - those of us 'downstairs' at Summercourt have had no notification yet that the route is going to be extended.

The whole loop idea is a complete farce anyway in my opinion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interestingly there is a registration under S3.1 of Notices & Proceedings issued 10th June 2014 for the 547:

PH0006741/117

WESTERN GREYHOUND LTD, WESTERN HOUSE, ST. AUSTELL STREET, SUMMERCOURT NEWQUAY TR8 5DR
From: ST IVES ( THE MALAKOFF )
To: LANDS END
Via:
Name or No: 547
Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 04-Jul-2014
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY ONE JOURNEY

I've highlighted an interesting point: the Lands End loop is only running Monday to Friday. Given the 547 runs Monday to Sunday with the same timetable each day, it is very strange to therefore only register the loop on weekdays and then have the vehicle sat idle at the weekends.

The timetable definitely shows it as daily, so there must be a mistake somewhere.