Fishguard Rail Service Review

[hilly]

So the 10:57 saturday service from Cardiff to Fishguard is likely to be a 150?

Hopefully not a 150/1 as those are rather dreadful

I don't think atw have any //1s

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think atw have any //1s

Saturdays booked 158+Pacer at the moment but don't guarantee 158. ATW have only 150/2s

 

[Kite159]

And am I right in thinking that service is the one which avoids Swansea and uses the District Line?

Fun on a Pacer, I can't wait *gets ear-plugs*

 

[Muzer]

And am I right in thinking that service is the one which avoids Swansea and uses the District Line?

Fun on a Pacer, I can't wait *gets ear-plugs*

For one crazy minute, I thought you were talking about a service that went from Cardiff to Fishguard via the London Undeground

 

[PHILIPE]

And am I right in thinking that service is the one which avoids Swansea and uses the District Line?

Fun on a Pacer, I can't wait *gets ear-plugs*

Yes, via Swansea District Line and Swansea Loop West on the way back. Full details on "Real Time Trains".

 

[Kite159]

Yes, via Swansea District Line and Swansea Loop West on the way back. Full details on "Real Time Trains".

Excellent

 

[Rhydgaled]

So the 10:57 saturday service from Cardiff to Fishguard is likely to be a 150?

Hopefully not a 150/1 as those are rather dreadful

As others have already said, ATW don't have 150/1s. Going from memory, their current fleet, I believe, is:

• 36x class 150/2
• 27x class 175 (a mix of 175/0 (2-car) and 175/1 (3-car))
• 24x class 158
• 15x class 142
• 15x class 143
• 6x mrk3 TSO
• 3x mrk3 DVT
• 3x class 67
• 2x mrk3 resturant/buffet first

Also, to summarise what PHILIPE has said, the stock used on the Mon-Sat Fishguard daytime services are as follows:

• 05:50 Carmarthen - Fishguard Harbour Booked 175/1
• 06:53 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road Booked 175/1
• 07:34 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour Booked 175/1
• 08:04 Fishguard Harbour - Manchester Piccadilly Booked 175/1
• 06:42 Cardiff - Fishguard Harbour Booked 150/2 or Pacer
• 09:54 Fishguard Harbour - Carmarthen Booked 150/2 or Pacer
• 10:40 Newport - Fishguard Harbour Booked 158 (plus a Pacer on SAT)*
• 13:29 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff Central Booked 158 (plus a Pacer on SAT)*
• 14:45 Gloucester - Fishguard Harbour Booked 158*
• 19:00 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road Booked 158*
• 20:05 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour Booked 158*
• 20:50 Fishguard Harbour - Carmarthen Booked 158*

* Although I have seen a solitary 150/2 on both of these diagrams recently. Don't know if I'm just really unlucky or ATW are frequently forced to substitute the stock on these diagrams

And am I right in thinking that service is the one which avoids Swansea and uses the District Line?

Yes, via Swansea District Line and Swansea Loop West on the way back. Full details on "Real Time Trains".

On weekdays I think it uses the Swansea District Line in both directions, doesn't it?

There are also two other trains between Carmarthen and Cardiff which avoid Swansea on weekdays. However they are at unhelpful hours (05:03 from Carmarthen, arriving back at 23:57) and call at Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun.

 

[merlodlliw]

[*]06:53 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road Booked 175/1
[*]07:34 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour Booked 175/1

Perhaps its me, but do these two services actually carry any passengers?just out on interest

 

[Delta558]

The 06:53 ex-FGH regularly carries passengers - not that many, but as has been alluded to previously the stock that is used (which may seem excessive for the numbers aboard) is primarily there for the next service from Fishguard. There are actually a couple of regular passengers on it as well. Saturdays can see it rivalling the first train leaving Pembroke Dock for numbers if you count from Goodwick (which is the main station for the town).

The 07:34 from Clarby very rarely carries passengers, but again it has been mentioned previously that this is primarily a positioning movement which just happens to be in passenger service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 06:53 ex-FGH regularly carries passengers - not that many, but as has been alluded to previously the stock that is used (which may seem excessive for the numbers aboard) is primarily there for the next service from Fishguard. There are actually a couple of regular passengers on it as well. Saturdays can see it rivalling the first train leaving Pembroke Dock for numbers if you count from Goodwick (which is the main station for the town).

The 07:34 from Clarby very rarely carries passengers, but again it has been mentioned previously that this is primarily a positioning movement which just happens to be in passenger service.

The very early morning MCH to Aberystwyth and late night Aberystwyth to MCH turns are in similar vain, BR having stopped overnighting at Aberystwyth in 1982. First Up & Down trains on heart of wales carry no one till around halfway point as no stock is stabled on line.

 

[merlodlliw]

The 06:53 ex-FGH regularly carries passengers - not that many, but as has been alluded to previously the stock that is used (which may seem excessive for the numbers aboard) is primarily there for the next service from Fishguard. There are actually a couple of regular passengers on it as well. Saturdays can see it rivalling the first train leaving Pembroke Dock for numbers if you count from Goodwick (which is the main station for the town).

The 07:34 from Clarby very rarely carries passengers, but again it has been mentioned previously that this is primarily a positioning movement which just happens to be in passenger service.

Thanks for that,I appreciate its early in the morning, but the 175 movements
appear rather excessive. But good luck to the services.

 

[Rhydgaled]

[*]06:53 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road Booked 175/1
[*]07:34 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour Booked 175/1

Perhaps its me, but do these two services actually carry any passengers?just out on interest

The 06:53 Fishguard Harbour - Clarbeston Road connects into the 07:05 ex-Milford service. It is pretty much the only service out of Fishguard that is suitable for commuting since the next service (08:04 from Fishguard) doesn't reach Carmarthen until almost 9am. I've never seen the 06:53 though, so can't tell you if anyone actually uses it but I've read comments from others that suggest it is used.

The 07:34 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard Harbour, as I've already explained:

is essentially just a positioning move for the 08:04 FGH-MAN service, and probably runs empty.

Thanks for that,I appreciate its early in the morning, but the 175 movements appear rather excessive.

I believe the 08:04 Fishguard is simply an extension of the 09:00 Carmarthen-MAN working which ran anyway before the Fishguard trial was introduced. Thus that 175 was probably sat at Carmarthen until 9am previously anyway, meaning the morning Fishguard services were introduced without requiring any additional units. When the Fishguard service started it was booked 175/0 (2-car), but the diagram includes the overcrowded 17:39 Cardiff-Milford service so was lengthened to 3-car.

I don't think there are any 150s or 153s which stable overnight at Carmarthen but if there were it might be more sensible to work the first Fishguard train in each direction with one of those and have the 175/1 work a 06:30 Carmarthen - Fishguard to form the 08:04 instead. That would eliminate need for the morning Clarbeston Road connection, as the 150/153 on the earlier service would not need to be back in Fishguard for 08:04 and thus not have to terminate at Clarbeston Road.

 

[Delta558]

That would eliminate need for the morning Clarbeston Road connection, as the 150/153 on the earlier service would not need to be back in Fishguard for 08:04 and thus not have to terminate at Clarbeston Road.

But that would involve 2 sets of traincrew, rather than one. Not that I'm disagreeing with you, just that it is a factor which needs to be taken into account.

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks for the info chaps,theres always a reason for movements,up here we have the midnight fifteen Wrexham General to Chester, a few use it for Holyhead ferry connections , but its returning to the stables at Chester from Shrewsbury anyway. We also had a fight to reinstall the 2204 Sundays only to Wrexham from Chester a few years ago when extra Sunday services were put on the Bidston line using a 150, this used to run Wrexham to Chester 2130 then return ex Chester 2200, then return to Chester ex 2230 from Wrexham.

The more pressure, the better, we use AMS of all parties,to question rail decisions, it does work. Just using the sitting AM, is only half the job,both our AMs(Wrexham/Clwyd South) are WG Ministers & wont rock the boat,I suppose we are lucky having opposition listed AMs who understand railways and wont be bluffed or put off.

I only mention pressure,has I don't recall the Fishguard extras being raised in the Senedd prior to the Ministers statement.
There are seven? AMs that serve the area who need to be awoken the trial is soon to end.

 

[PHILIPE]

But that would involve 2 sets of traincrew, rather than one. Not that I'm disagreeing with you, just that it is a factor which needs to be taken into account.

There is a 150 stabled but disappears long before than by attaching to the night boats to go to Swansea for 05 45 to Pembroke Dock. The working currently in operation is the best that can be done without any additional costs.

 

[Delta558]

There's regularly a 150 and/or a 158 stabled overnight and nothing to do with the night Fishguard: First Pembroke Dock is diagrammed a 158 but is often a 150. Generally you will see at least one if not two 158s or 150s. If (as happened a couple of nights ago) there needs to be a set swap on a late service from Cardiff it's luck of the draw what unit you'll have.

"The working currently in operation is the best that can be done without any additional costs"
That's why I mentioned traincrew - the funding for the extra services on the line included the additional staff, but not anything above and beyond that so two sets of traincrew for the first two services would involve extra cost to the company.

 

[merlodlliw]

There's regularly a 150 and/or a 158 stabled overnight and nothing to do with the night Fishguard: First Pembroke Dock is diagrammed a 158 but is often a 150. Generally you will see at least one if not two 158s or 150s. If (as happened a couple of nights ago) there needs to be a set swap on a late service from Cardiff it's luck of the draw what unit you'll have.

"The working currently in operation is the best that can be done without any additional costs"
That's why I mentioned traincrew - the funding for the extra services on the line included the additional staff, but not anything above and beyond that so two sets of traincrew for the first two services would involve extra cost to the company.

If I recall the funding of some £1,4 million a year was left to ATW to sort out, did ATW in fact employ extra staff? I never remember anything in the Ministers statement(IWJ) mentioning extra staff.
http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/2011/110912fishguard/?lang=en this was the then new Ministers statement,now we have yet another Minister,so thats three since the extras were first announced, all I might add have different visions on Rail which have been portfolio downgraded since IWJ.

 

[Delta558]

did ATW in fact employ extra staff?

Yes, they did.

 

[swcovas]

As others have already said, ATW don't have 150/1s. Going from memory, their current fleet, I believe, is:

• 36x class 150/2
• 27x class 175 (a mix of 175/0 (2-car) and 175/1 (3-car))
• 24x class 158
• 15x class 142
• 15x class 143
• 6x mrk3 TSO
• 3x mrk3 DVT
• 3x class 67
• 2x mrk3 resturant/buffet first

Plus the 8 (Ithink) 153s

 

[PHILIPE]

There's regularly a 150 and/or a 158 stabled overnight and nothing to do with the night Fishguard: First Pembroke Dock is diagrammed a 158 but is often a 150. Generally you will see at least one if not two 158s or 150s. If (as happened a couple of nights ago) there needs to be a set swap on a late service from Cardiff it's luck of the draw what unit you'll have.

"The working currently in operation is the best that can be done without any additional costs"
That's why I mentioned traincrew - the funding for the extra services on the line included the additional staff, but not anything above and beyond that so two sets of traincrew for the first two services would involve extra cost to the company.

There is no other 150 booked overnight other than the one I have mentioned. Due to a shortage of 175s recently, the additional 158 could have been covering for a 175 (05 03 the candidate mostly). There are 150s on a Saturday but not during the week, Any 150 may have been deputising for the Pembroke Dock service 158 which occurs frequently.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Plus the 8 (Ithink) 153s

True, how did I forget those?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
With three months to go on the trial service (according to my estimate of when it will end) I've produced a new video, part of my "Trains For Fishguard" series.

 

[merlodlliw]

Excellent video Rhydgaled, I notice the Fishguard Trains website, timetables has been tied up,well done,some one took notice of my comment in an earlier thread.however the Lead story from the website home page,requires urgent attention below,referring to the arrival of the evening train 1846. link http://fishguardtrains.info/

We are in the middle of the Welsh Government review of the three-year Fishguard rail experiment. Rail users and non-users in the community are being surveyed, and passengers on every train are supposedly being handed questionnaires to complete. But while ferry passengers (who are completely unaffected by the additional trains, and who would not notice if the Welsh Government cut funding in September) are evidently being questioned on the boat trains, yet a full evening trainload of local passengers is ignored.

This is not the first train in the survey period to be excluded from the survey. Several people arriving at Fishguard and Goodwick in recent days have reported to Fishguard Trains that there were no questionnaires on the train. This evening we saw for ourselves.

So the question is, why are Irish ferry passengers being surveyed about a service that does not affect them, while local Fishguard travellers are being ignored? Can we have confidence in the outcome of the review if this is the way it is being conducted?

who is carrying out the survey? if it is an agency? this should be drawn immediately to the notice of local & Listed AMs,and the MP,letters in the press etc.I of course dont get the local press in South West Wales, but local County & Community Councillors should also be playing hell with Pembrokeshire County Council,If the survey is being done half cocked,get it sorted now before its too late,becoming a nuisance wakes people up. Important show evidence(as above) the survey(publically funded by WG) is being done poorly.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I've used the train (it was the service arriving Goodwick at 18:46) once during the survey period and confirm that somebody boarded at Clarbeston Road with survey forms, who seemed to be from Pembrokeshire County Council.

Given that it is the council doing it, I wonder if they have the funding to ensure every service is covered given how much councils are cutting back. I may be wrong, but I think the PCC Staff member I saw on the train is the same one pictured conducting the survey in an e-mail I have received from the North Pembrokeshire Transport Forum.

 

[merlodlliw]

The funding should include each train, no matter what time or day,If in Fact the County Council is doing the survey, will Saturday be included,I am always cautious when CCs do surveys,is all the money provided by WG for the survey actually been ring fenced by the CC. and spent on the Survey.

 

[swcovas]

True, how did I forget those?


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
With three months to go on the trial service (according to my estimate of when it will end) I've produced a new video, part of my "Trains For Fishguard" series.

How indeed??!!! Not ashamed to say I like them!


As others have said, a great little video. As you may note I now live in Portugal but on my visits back to Wales I have used the service a few times but unfortunately because I usually stay in Porthcawl I am really restricted to using the boat train to get down to Fishguard which I think is one of the drawbacks of the tt......it is unsuitable for making a visit INTO North Pembs as you can into South Pembs. Even though a rare user I will complete the survey. As many as possible MUST do so. The recent Cambrian survey was a great excercise in bombarding the government with support.

 

[muddythefish]

Interesting thread.

I spent many happy hours at Johnston and Clarbeston Road having blagged my way into signal boxes during family holidays to Pembs in the 1960s and 1970s.

The line was busy with freight then. On the Milford line, there was a general freight down to the town goods yard and docks at about 10.30am thorough Johnston, usually pulled by a Hymek. The return working came up about 7pm in the evening.

In addition there were 2 freights out of Haverfordwest yard in the evening, usually loaded to 40 vans or more and pulled by a Class 37 (EE Type 3 to me then).

And then there were the oil trains, back and forth 24 hours a day, mainly from Esso at Herbrandston and Gulf at Waterston. Hymeks and Brush 4s were the usual motive power.

Passenger trains were usally 3 coaches and a Hymek, and sometimes a DMU. There was also an overnight sleeper to Milford from Paddington, with a few hardy souls on board. Fantastic.

The Fishguard line was much quieter but came to life for a few hours from about midday before the Rosslare boat sailed. At Clarby, if my memory serves me correctly first was a general freight from Margam, pulled by a Hymek, and usually loaded to about 50 mainly Irish meat wagons.

Then came the Freightliner from London, pulled by a Brush 4, followed by the Motorail from Kensington and finally the Boat train from Paddington, also 47-hauled.

Great days.

 

[Gareth Marston]

How indeed??!!! Not ashamed to say I like them!


As others have said, a great little video. As you may note I now live in Portugal but on my visits back to Wales I have used the service a few times but unfortunately because I usually stay in Porthcawl I am really restricted to using the boat train to get down to Fishguard which I think is one of the drawbacks of the tt......it is unsuitable for making a visit INTO North Pembs as you can into South Pembs. Even though a rare user I will complete the survey. As many as possible MUST do so. The recent Cambrian survey was a great excercise in bombarding the government with support.

The Cambrian survey appears to have been the Ministers own idea much to the horror of at least one of her Officials from what I'm told. The Line Liaison Committee includes the local RUG and the NUS at Aber uni, Powys, Ceredigion and Gwynedd were not part of the process. Interesting that the CC is leading this but Pembrokeshire have been proactive in supporting the trial and new station.

 

[Rhydgaled]

the oil trains, back and forth 24 hours a day, mainly from Esso at Herbrandston and Gulf at Waterston.

Just Murco at Robeston (forget how it's spelt) left now, but for how much longer? Shame the Pembroke refinary (on the other side of the haven) is not rail-connected.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How indeed??!!! Not ashamed to say I like them!

Given a good refurbishment (introducing a few more tables, window alignment and legroom) I'd much rather 153s (working in multiple most of the time) than 150s (as the latter have shorter vehicles and more length devoted to doors).

 

[merlodlliw]

The Cambrian survey appears to have been the Ministers own idea much to the horror of at least one of her Officials from what I'm told. The Line Liaison Committee includes the local RUG and the NUS at Aber uni, Powys, Ceredigion and Gwynedd were not part of the process. Interesting that the CC is leading this but Pembrokeshire have been proactive in supporting the trial and new station.

It is interesting the CC are the lead body,I hope the swaithes of bureaucracy don't get in the way of the survey,I also hope the busier Saturday trains are canvassed and proactive CC people are involved,perhaps having dealt with my CC for years with another organisation to save Minera quarries Great Western loading wharfs & Hofman Kilns,worries me,I accept other CCs have differing agendas.
But if the hard copy canvass is chasing the wrong people, IE boat passengers & not those on actual trains as is implied in the Fishguard Trains website, get it sorted now.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It is interesting the CC are the lead body,I hope the swaithes of bureaucracy don't get in the way of the survey,I also hope the busier Saturday trains are canvassed and proactive CC people are involved,perhaps having dealt with my CC for years with another organisation to save Minera quarries Great Western loading wharfs & Hofman Kilns,worries me,I accept other CCs have differing agendas.
But if the hard copy canvass is chasing the wrong people, IE boat passengers & not those on actual trains as is implied in the Fishguard Trains website, get it sorted now.

Re opening Goodwick station appears to be a point in their favour hard to think of anything as pro rail as that from Powys, Ceredigion and gwynedd.