Revenue protection farce at Bradford Forster Square

[northernchris]

Perhaps someone from Northern is reading this thread as the staff were selling tickets at the end of the platforms again this morning

One thing worth considering is even despite the ticket checks now being a daily occurrence there still appears to be plenty of people boarding at staffed stations without tickets.

 

[455driver]

The problem is, as I mentioned in my original post, is that where I board at Basildon there is no ticket office or machine, so we have to rely on the guards being able to attend to the entire train (which is always a 4 car class 333). So we have no option whatsoever.

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

 

[Pumbaa]

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

I thoroughly disagree with that thrust - we should not expect Joe Public to be able to identify and approach the Guard. You'd be hard pushed to get them to correctly identify if there was even a Guard on the train.

 

[Flamingo]

Well, when it suits, Joe Public think that all the Guard does is sells tickets - and when it doesn't suit, they don't know who the Guard is.

 

[30907]

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

Yes, but if everybody does that, you're back where you started - Airedale/Wharfedale services stop almost as frequently as 455s and some of them load almost as heavily, so the guard still hasn't got time to issue all the tickets required. (And not all of them seemed terribly keen to do so, in the days when I used to use the line more regularly, but that's another story.)

 

[Crossover]

The problem is, as I mentioned in my original post, is that where I board at Basildon there is no ticket office or machine, so we have to rely on the guards being able to attend to the entire train (which is always a 4 car class 333). So we have no option whatsoever.

You'll do well going from Basildon :P (I have nearly made the same typo/autocorrect before too )

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

I thoroughly disagree with that thrust - we should not expect Joe Public to be able to identify and approach the Guard. You'd be hard pushed to get them to correctly identify if there was even a Guard on the train.

I'm with Pumbaa, besides, on some of our services up here, there isn't a cat in hells chance of getting through to the guard, let alone of the guard trying to get to you - I have been on many a 4 car 333 that is wedged and no-one is getting anywhere fast within the unit!

Generally speaking, I have found on the quieter services of such units, the guards are pretty proactive on revenue duties (helped that there are local door controls all over the place)

 

[Andrew32]

Speaking as a commuter, the current revenue staff are a pain in the arse, I'm a annual card holder and every day this week I have been asked countless times to show my pass when leaving the station, I may as well attach my pass to a piece of elastic it comes in and out of my pocket that many times before I leave the station.

It was bad enough when the other revenue staff used to sell tickets on the platforms as I nearly missed my train on several occasions waiting for the people to purchase their tickets and clogging up the platform.

Answer is simple, employ more guards at busier times on trains, some people genuinely want to buy tickets but the trains are that bloody full the guards can't serve everyone or even get down the aisle.

Install barriers at Bradford too, no ticket means no exit/entry.

Also, stop wasting money on agency fees!

 

[Muzer]

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

Have you ever been in Northern Rail land? I have a few times, though I don't pretend to be an expert - whenever I've tried to seek out the guard, they've always told me to go back to my seat and wait for them. They usually like trying to get around everyone systematically themselves, as far as I can tell. If the whole train did as you suggest (given the lack of ticket offices/TVMs this isn't as silly as it sounds), the situation would be ludicrous.

I can understand (but disagree with) it being a requirement down here in SWTland, where there are about two stations* without any ticket selling facilities, but where Northern operate when plenty of relatively busy stations have nothing more than a platform, lights and (if you're lucky) a footbridge and a shelter**, the whole idea of having to seek out the guard is frankly ludicrous.

And why should the customers have to vacate their seat and walk down a busy train just because the DfT can't be arsed to spec the franchise properly and Northern Rail can't be arsed to implement sufficient ticket buying facilities on their own?

* Exaggeration
** May also be an exaggeration

 

[HSTEd]

Agency staff on zero hour contracts can be hired one day and disposed of the next.
Revenue staff actually on the payroll can not be treated like that.

Which means the Agency staff will always come in cheaper.

 

[Bantamzen]

When you board the train you can look to see where the guard is (he will be the first person off the train and the last one back on) and then once the train has left you can make your way through the train to buy a ticket!

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

Oh OK then, I'll suggest that to everybody at the station without a ticket this morning. So when the train pulls in, we'll have everybody running towards whatever carriage he / she is operating the doors from (at Baildon this can be any one of the 4 on the service). I'm sure the guard will love that one, and I'll be sure to inform them who offered the solution..... :roll:

I'm starting to get the impression that you seem to think I'm some sort of fare dodger, well just to set the record straight nothing annoys me more on these services (especially on services from BDQ) than the sight of people running to the far end of the train in order to avoid the guard. All I want is to be able to obtain a ticket either at the station, which I cannot, on the train, which is usually possible on the early services, or if neither of the above to be able to get one prior to passing through checks. It's not an unreasonable expectation is it? Oh and just so that you know I usually have a monthly Metrocard for my travelling, but due to some personal circumstances I have had to lower my travel costs by using just the train & walking the rest of the distance to work (my commute does not end in central Bradford). But I had I been carrying one, I would still have made this post.

You'll do well going from Basildon (I have nearly made the same typo/autocorrect before too )

Ooops....

Speaking as a commuter, the current revenue staff are a pain in the arse, I'm a annual card holder and every day this week I have been asked countless times to show my pass when leaving the station, I may as well attach my pass to a piece of elastic it comes in and out of my pocket that many times before I leave the station.

It was bad enough when the other revenue staff used to sell tickets on the platforms as I nearly missed my train on several occasions waiting for the people to purchase their tickets and clogging up the platform.

Answer is simple, employ more guards at busier times on trains, some people genuinely want to buy tickets but the trains are that bloody full the guards can't serve everyone or even get down the aisle.

Install barriers at Bradford too, no ticket means no exit/entry.

Also, stop wasting money on agency fees!

I must admit the first couple of days this week it was a bit of a scrum trying to get through all the staff (there must have been 8 or 9 at the end of the platforms in a space barely big enough for 2 or 3 people to pass through together), with every one seemingly wanting to see everyone's tickets. It settled down on Wednesday when only 2 or 3 where assigned to platforms 1-2 so things did flow a bit better, and the staff did finally seem aware that there was the possibility of passengers arriving without tickets.

But you are right, Northern should look towards employing additional staff directly to sell tickets on the busier services. I know when I used to commute from South Elmsall to Bradford every day, the morning peaks always had two staff manning the service. One would take on the guard duties & look after the rear two carriages, the other would check / sell tickets on the front two. It worked well even when the services were pretty rammed so why it can't be employed on other busy routes routinely operated by 4 cars I've no idea.

Barriers at BDQ are probably a good idea, although it might be prudent to consider a slight redesign of the station layout so as not to cause too much of a bottleneck at the platforms. And of course places like Baildon need to have ticket machines installed to offer the opportunity to actually obtain a valid ticket should the guard not be able to cover the whole train in the 12 or so minutes the service is timetabled to make the journey (including the stops at Shipley & Frizinghall).

 

[LowLevel]

Some people seem genuinely surprised that it s mandatory to pay for your fare - I called at a station with permit to travel machines the other day - I asked an Ethel if she'd got one one to make sure I charged her right and she said 'no, if it's busy and the guard can't get round it means I can't get my money back unless I queue up and I don't want to do that' - she seemed horrified and quite annoyed that the yellow and black poster she walks past every day says we can charge her £20 for the privilege or even prosecute her for just walking off the station. Can't wait for ticket barriers to be operational at the town station as the number of people who just walk past the office and machines then sit at the front of the train for 10 minutes before departure is beyond belief. If they lie about rushing they get hit for the most expensive fare I can issue for their journey.

 

[Greenback]

Speaking as a commuter, the current revenue staff are a pain in the arse, I'm a annual card holder and every day this week I have been asked countless times to show my pass when leaving the station, I may as well attach my pass to a piece of elastic it comes in and out of my pocket that many times before I leave the station.

Is it really such a pain? Do you put your card away? On my commute I usually keep my ticket wallet in my hand, from before entering the station at the beginning of my journey to leaving the station at the other end.

I know I'm going to need to show it on the train, and at the barriers on almost all journeys, so I keep it available. I suppose it would be a pain if I put into a pocket under several layers of clothing or into a bag.

Answer is simple, employ more guards at busier times on trains, some people genuinely want to buy tickets but the trains are that bloody full the guards can't serve everyone or even get down the aisle.

That would be one solution, albeit an expensive one, assuming that the trains were not too busy for the guards to move about. But your second sentence seems to imply that they are, so employing extra staff to simply be trapped in one place may not be the simple answer after all!

Install barriers at Bradford too, no ticket means no exit/entry.

I agree with that, though I suspect others won't as producing a ticket for the barriers is a right old pain, especially if it's in a pocket or bag...

 

[30907]

Oh and just so that you know I usually have a monthly Metrocard for my travelling, but due to some personal circumstances I have had to lower my travel costs by using just the train & walking the rest of the distance to work

A 7-day season costs less than 4 Anytime Day Returns on this route

But you are right, Northern should look towards employing additional staff directly to sell tickets on the busier services.

As they do - but I wouldn't have classed an early Ilkley-Bradford as a "busier" train - which may show my ignorance (even when I lived there, I was rarely on Shipley station that early!). Has the new housing in Charlestown made all that difference?

 

[Bantamzen]

As they do - but I wouldn't have classed an early Ilkley-Bradford as a "busier" train - which may show my ignorance (even when I lived there, I was rarely on Shipley station that early!). Has the new housing in Charlestown made all that difference?

The services are getting busier, not really much to do with new housing but more to do with the crippling traffic through Shipley. And much more housing is planned along both the Aire and Wharfe valleys with no new road projects planned. So it's going to get worse.

 

[455driver]

Have you ever been in Northern Rail land?

Yes several times, they can be as full as the trains I drive.

Can anyone come up with a workable solution that the DaFT will be happy to fund?

For what its worth I think it is a stupid situation as well and if the company could get on top of the revenue collection then overcrowding might reduce a bit* when certain people realise they will have to start paying instead of always getting a freebie!

* Yeah okay I am being an optimist!

 

[ValleyLines142]

On the subject of Revenue Protection Inspectors, I've noticed over the last six months or so that a few officers have been at Cardiff Central checking tickets, and every time I've passed through the barriers they are dealing with someone.

However, the problem is that perfectly valid tickets with a railcard discount on them have been set to purposely be rejected in the ticket barriers, so that you have to go to an RPI. This has happened to me twice or three times and it is rater humiliating. Yes they are doing their job, but on all occasions I've exited the station it has been at 5 o'clock in the afternoon, smack in the middle of rush hour. Quite a large number of people have 16-25 railcards etc, and at that time of the day congestion will inevitably build up, so it is causing massive delays having to go to the RPI. There must be a better solution.

I also did not realise that you must be in possession of your railcard until you have exited the station. This greatly irritated me when I showed my ticket to the conductor on the train, had it stamped and kept my ticket out but put my railcard away, only to have an RPI asking for my railcard when I've got my hands full with bags and when it has at that point gone right to the bottom of my bag. Personally I always thought that when you showed your railcard on the train, that was it.

 

[TUC]

Oh dont bother with any of that 'but I am under no obligation' rubbish, you are obligated to buy a ticket for your journey whether that is before (if possible), during (if possible) or after!

And staff are under an obligation to walk through the train and sell tickets.

 

[Greenback]

On the subject of Revenue Protection Inspectors, I've noticed over the last six months or so that a few officers have been at Cardiff Central checking tickets, and every time I've passed through the barriers they are dealing with someone.[/QUOTE]

ATW seem to be making extra efforts to protect their revenue these days. As a Welsh taxpayer, I think this is a good thing!

However, the problem is that perfectly valid tickets with a railcard discount on them have been set to purposely be rejected in the ticket barriers, so that you have to go to an RPI. This has happened to me twice or three times and it is rater humiliating. Yes they are doing their job, but on all occasions I've exited the station it has been at 5 o'clock in the afternoon, smack in the middle of rush hour. Quite a large number of people have 16-25 railcards etc, and at that time of the day congestion will inevitably build up, so it is causing massive delays having to go to the RPI. There must be a better solution.

This is undoubtedly deliberate as I expect that there will be quite a few passengers who make a 'simple mistake' and select a railcard discounted ticket from a TVM even though they don't have such a railcard.

I will put up with a few seconds delay in order to see this issue tackled.

I also did not realise that you must be in possession of your railcard until you have exited the station. This greatly irritated me when I showed my ticket to the conductor on the train, had it stamped and kept my ticket out but put my railcard away, only to have an RPI asking for my railcard when I've got my hands full with bags and when it has at that point gone right to the bottom of my bag. Personally I always thought that when you showed your railcard on the train, that was it.

Well, now you know, you can your railcard in hand with your ticket and you won't have to waste your time retrieving it!

 

[CC 72100]

I will put up with a few seconds delay in order to see this issue tackled.

Exactly - although my railcard is currently free, i'll be paying for it from July (I think!) and so I don't mind a couple of seconds of my time being taken in exchange for a thorough ticket check which weeds out those who make that 'very simple' mistake. (So easy to make, they probably do so everyday...)

There's a lot of people who will happily select a railcard in thinking that it will never get checked. I'm all for checks to make sure that people only get a discount that they are entitled to/have paid for.

 

[craigwilson]

I also did not realise that you must be in possession of your railcard until you have exited the station. This greatly irritated me when I showed my ticket to the conductor on the train, had it stamped and kept my ticket out but put my railcard away, only to have an RPI asking for my railcard when I've got my hands full with bags and when it has at that point gone right to the bottom of my bag. Personally I always thought that when you showed your railcard on the train, that was it.

Wherever you might need to show your ticket, you will also need to show any railcard that provides a discount, be that on the train or at any ticket line etc.

I personally always have them give me a ticket wallet with railcards if I don't already have one - it means that the tickets and their accompanying railcard always stay together.

 

[Oswyntail]

...Can anyone come up with a workable solution that the DaFT will be happy to fund?...

As with speeding, the approach should be to increase the likelihood that you will eventually be caught, and increase the penalty for being caught. So:-

1. Take "revenue protection" duties away from Guards, and let them concentrate on their operational duties.
2. Have frequent but irregular checks on train and at station exits by employed inspectors (Put up a barrrier, and someone will work out how to get round it; have regular inspections by uniformed officers and people will know when to buy a ticket - have random inspections by plain-clothed humans and it is virtually impossible to know when an inspection will take place)
3. Make the lowest fine for fare-dodging eye-wateringly painful - say £10,000 and a criminal record - and make sure all prosecutions get maximum publicity in the local press.

 

[Bantamzen]

As with speeding, the approach should be to increase the likelihood that you will eventually be caught, and increase the penalty for being caught. So:-

1. Take "revenue protection" duties away from Guards, and let them concentrate on their operational duties.
2. Have frequent but irregular checks on train and at station exits by employed inspectors (Put up a barrrier, and someone will work out how to get round it; have regular inspections by uniformed officers and people will know when to buy a ticket - have random inspections by plain-clothed humans and it is virtually impossible to know when an inspection will take place)
3. Make the lowest fine for fare-dodging eye-wateringly painful - say £10,000 and a criminal record - and make sure all prosecutions get maximum publicity in the local press.

You've missed one thing off that list, ensure that all stations have the facility to obtain the tickets they require prior to starting the journey at all times, be this through manned ticket offices at busier stations, or ticket machines at quieter stations covered by CCTV for their protection & passenger reassurance. I mentioned in my original post that the station I use at Baildon has neither a ticket office not ticket machine, and around the country there will be plenty more like it. There's no point in trying to slap someone with huge fines & criminal records if you don't offer them the chance to actually pay, it would get thrown out in moments.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Well, yes. Except that if the costs of installing and maintaining such a machine exceed the revenue loss from its not being there, then it's not a cost-effective thing to do.

A "Watertight" system is an accountant's dream, but is not necessarily the most profitable. It may well be more profitable to accept a degree of lost revenue, rather than invest in its collection.

 

[Oswyntail]

... ensure that all stations have the facility to obtain the tickets they require prior to starting the journey at all times....

Absolutely. That should really be a given

Well, yes. Except that if the costs of installing and maintaining such a machine exceed the revenue loss from its not being there, then it's not a cost-effective thing to do.....

Does anyone have actual figures for these costs available?

 

[DarloRich]

ensure that all stations have the facility to obtain the tickets they require prior to starting the journey at all times, be this through manned ticket offices at busier stations, or ticket machines at quieter stations covered by CCTV for their protection & passenger reassurance

Absolutely. That should really be a given

Whilst fine in theory I do not think it works in practice at many smaller stations.

Take the stations on my local line (Bletchley - Bedford aka Marston Vale Line) it would be less than cost effective to go to the expense of installing tickets machines and the supporting infrastructure for the numbers of passengers.

The machines would need to be card only to avoid the issue of having to employ someone to drive around all the stations sorting out the money and replenishing the tickets. Many of the stations are in rural areas and would need alterations to station power supply and data links to accommodate the machines. Some of the stations have very low user numbers but offer an important service to that community. This means the time taken to repay the investment would be large. None of the stations will ever be manned (expect Bedford & Bletchley) so any issues with the machines take time to fix and mean the guard has to sell tickets. A card only machine doesn’t suit everyone and means that the guard still has to sell tickets.

While none of these are insurmountable problems they do cost money to overcome. Either the TOC has to be ordered to make a loss on this installation or the costs are underwritten by a third party or we look for another approach.

Personally I think on rural lines you have little choice but to sell on the train. What needs to be sorted out is how the guard discharges both the financial and, more importantly, the safety aspects of their role.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Just ditch the whole physical machine idea at these small stations and move to barcoaded ticketing. Afterall you can already check-in to a flight and present a boarding card code via a phone screen and most railways outside the UK offer print-at-home tickets using barcodes which are just as reliable on a phone screen as on paper. So users could buy a ticket before they left home and print it out, or even buy on the train via an app and just display the barcode to the conductor.

Obviously the roll-out for such a system would be large and not likely to happen for a while, but it would certainly make massive changes to the way tickets have to be purchased. No longer could the old "no conductor came round" excuse be used, nor the "ticket machine didn't work" or "queue was too long".

Now it isn't for everyone, it won't stop people who don't want to buy a ticket and obviously could never be used as a 'walked past a chance to buy a ticket' in a prosecution, but it would make things a lot easier for passengers who do want to buy a ticket but regularly use busy services from unmanned stations and thus have to hunt a conductor or queue at their destination.

 

[Bantamzen]

Whilst fine in theory I do not think it works in practice at many smaller stations.

Take the stations on my local line (Bletchley - Bedford aka Marston Vale Line) it would be less than cost effective to go to the expense of installing tickets machines and the supporting infrastructure for the numbers of passengers.

The machines would need to be card only to avoid the issue of having to employ someone to drive around all the stations sorting out the money and replenishing the tickets. Many of the stations are in rural areas and would need alterations to station power supply and data links to accommodate the machines. Some of the stations have very low user numbers but offer an important service to that community. This means the time taken to repay the investment would be large. None of the stations will ever be manned (expect Bedford & Bletchley) so any issues with the machines take time to fix and mean the guard has to sell tickets. A card only machine doesn’t suit everyone and means that the guard still has to sell tickets.

While none of these are insurmountable problems they do cost money to overcome. Either the TOC has to be ordered to make a loss on this installation or the costs are underwritten by a third party or we look for another approach.

Personally I think on rural lines you have little choice but to sell on the train. What needs to be sorted out is how the guard discharges both the financial and, more importantly, the safety aspects of their role.

I suppose in some places this might be sensible after all, although with places like Baildon every other station on the route does have ticket machines so it just seems daft having one station left out. It would be interesting if someone knew the sort of costs involved in running these machines, and if there is a tigger point at which TOCs would consider them to be cost effective.

Just ditch the whole physical machine idea at these small stations and move to barcoaded ticketing. Afterall you can already check-in to a flight and present a boarding card code via a phone screen and most railways outside the UK offer print-at-home tickets using barcodes which are just as reliable on a phone screen as on paper. So users could buy a ticket before they left home and print it out, or even buy on the train via an app and just display the barcode to the conductor.

Obviously the roll-out for such a system would be large and not likely to happen for a while, but it would certainly make massive changes to the way tickets have to be purchased. No longer could the old "no conductor came round" excuse be used, nor the "ticket machine didn't work" or "queue was too long".

Now it isn't for everyone, it won't stop people who don't want to buy a ticket and obviously could never be used as a 'walked past a chance to buy a ticket' in a prosecution, but it would make things a lot easier for passengers who do want to buy a ticket but regularly use busy services from unmanned stations and thus have to hunt a conductor or queue at their destination.

Hmm interesting, although in West Yorkshire Metro are just starting to roll out their Mcard smartcards. Perhaps it would be more prudent for TOCs to ultilse systems like these instead, albeit meaning that some investment would be needed to read these cards at the larger stations & on trains (the idea is that soon the cards can be pre-loaded with season tickets via the 'net). But anything that improves the ability to buy tickets before or at the start of the journey would be welcomed.

 

[DarloRich]

Just ditch the whole physical machine idea at these small stations and move to barcoaded ticketing. Afterall you can already check-in to a flight and present a boarding card code via a phone screen and most railways outside the UK offer print-at-home tickets using barcodes which are just as reliable on a phone screen as on paper. So users could buy a ticket before they left home and print it out, or even buy on the train via an app and just display the barcode to the conductor.

Obviously the roll-out for such a system would be large and not likely to happen for a while, but it would certainly make massive changes to the way tickets have to be purchased. No longer could the old "no conductor came round" excuse be used, nor the "ticket machine didn't work" or "queue was too long".

Now it isn't for everyone, it won't stop people who don't want to buy a ticket and obviously could never be used as a 'walked past a chance to buy a ticket' in a prosecution, but it would make things a lot easier for passengers who do want to buy a ticket but regularly use busy services from unmanned stations and thus have to hunt a conductor or queue at their destination.

Again fine in theory and I think this kind of ticketing has a place in a wider ticketing offering but to me the ultimate backstop needs to be for the guard to sell you a ticket. Phones go flat; signals are poor, apps crash etc. Again not massive problems but enough to cause trouble for a passenger.

 

[Bantamzen]

Well this morning, after the guard seemingly had problems with the ticket machine & looked a bit stressed (can't blame him really) we had to once again run the gauntlet at BDQ sans ticket. And today the staff were wanting ticket less passengers to wait on the platform until, I assume, a member of the Northern staff came on duty with a ticket machine. But given that at that time of the morning there is usually only one person on duty, and they are busy in the office dealing with the queue there, we politely explained to the new staff that it would be more prudent to pass through & join the queue in the office rather than wait for an unspecified amount of time. After all, people travelling at that time of the morning (it was around 06:50 this morning) aren't doing so for a leisurely wander around and have time to spare.

Someone earlier questioned why I called the situation a farce, well given that almost every day there's a different plan in play (and some evening peaks they've just disappeared completely), none of which seem to be improving customer relations, their ability to legitimately obtain the correct tickets, or improve revenue flow by all that much (people still could have walked through the ticket office without being challenged, although none chose to do so) I think it's fair to call this a farce.

And it got me thinking about the whole situation. Given that in a little over 6 weeks the Tour de France starts off in West Yorkshire, and that many of the routes (this one included) will be heavily loaded during the weekend of cycling I wonder if these guys have been taken on the cover various stations across the network during the event? If so, I honestly hope that someone provides them with a more robust plan of action, and that they are accompanied by Northern staff who are able to deal with the sale of tickets, as well as comprehensive travel information. It has the potential to bring a lot of bad publicity to Northern if they get it wrong, which will not help them secure the new franchise in a couple of years time.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Again fine in theory and I think this kind of ticketing has a place in a wider ticketing offering but to me the ultimate backstop needs to be for the guard to sell you a ticket. Phones go flat; signals are poor, apps crash etc. Again not massive problems but enough to cause trouble for a passenger.

All sorts of potential shenanigans for the 'disputes' forum then!