LM 350/3 discussion (was Construction Progress)

[Chris125]

A comment on another forum suggest they're being moved elsewhere to free up space at Northampton for further units to be commissioned.

Chris

 

[Class 170101]

Thats all well and good for the time being but what happens in December? Crewe isn't exactly the hub the LM network where will they go if its not Northampton?

 

[Techniquest]

Might be able to use some space at Soho, particularly if some are used on CrossCity/local Birmingham services.

I've heard some 350/3s may come out to play during the summer, but I guess that depends on what they do with the 350/1s first.

 

[Minilad]

Might be able to use some space at Soho, particularly if some are used on CrossCity/local Birmingham services.

I've heard some 350/3s may come out to play during the summer, but I guess that depends on what they do with the 350/1s first.

Soho is full with 323s. There is only space for 18 units on Soho. Can't even fit all the 323s on there. Hence having to stable some of them at New Street overnight.

 

[Silverlinky]

And Kings Heath is full, only space for 30 there. Hence having to stable at Coventry Yard and in the platforms at Birmingham International overnight!!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

And Kings Heath is full, only space for 30 there. Hence having to stable at Coventry Yard and in the platforms at Birmingham International overnight!!

Network Rail had indicated in previous infrastructure plans that they were looking at an additional servicing/stabling facility in the West Midlands with Duddeston the likely site. I do hope that is still on their agenda.

The most recent Route Plan makes brief reference to the issue on page 40, document link below:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ute plans/london north western route plan.pdf

 

[RobShipway]

Network Rail had indicated in previous infrastructure plans that they were looking at an additional servicing/stabling facility in the West Midlands with Duddeston the likely site. I do hope that is still on their agenda.

The most recent Route Plan makes brief reference to the issue on page 40, document link below:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ute plans/london north western route plan.pdf

Would this be where the old rail works used to be, if it is setup at Duddeston?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Would this be where the old rail works used to be, if it is setup at Duddeston?

It would have to be, I just hope that there is no conflict with HS2. But at least there is a recognition of the problem and the need to resolve it.

 

[mr_jrt]

If only there were facilities elsewhere on the network near Northhampton, around Bletchley, say...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

If only there were facilities elsewhere on the network near Northhampton, around Bletchley, say...

I know what you mean but that is no help to the West Midlands issue. Soho is stuffed and there is nowhere else locally.

 

[Philip Elliott]

No real timetable changes in May so no need yet for extra capacity. December timetable change is when they'll be pressed into full service. They may fill in before then if the 350/1 overhaul/major exam program gets under way.

The timetable was due to change in May and the paths were all in for the extra Northampton services but got postponed later. Due to late delivery of the units?

 

[Class 92]

Could they not be kept in Crewe station over night in the bay platforms?

 

[sd0733]

Units are stabled in crewe station overnight- some are left all night and some of the earlier arrivals are sent to lnwr and then taken back to the station around midnight before the last ones arrive. Leaving them there all night and not visiting the depot causes major issues with cet tanks becoming full though so that's not ideal either.

 

[mr_jrt]

I know what you mean but that is no help to the West Midlands issue. Soho is stuffed and there is nowhere else locally.

What I was going for is that if you moved units from Northampton to Bletchley to make room for the aforementioned commissioning, then you don't have to move the units to the west midlands, leaving capacity up there available.

 

[zn1]

plenty of dead and secure siding space in wolverton works, and surely there is space in bletchley tmd sidings....

 

[Old Hill Bank]

What I was going for is that if you moved units from Northampton to Bletchley to make room for the aforementioned commissioning, then you don't have to move the units to the west midlands, leaving capacity up there available.

plenty of dead and secure siding space in wolverton works, and surely there is space in bletchley tmd sidings....

I think the point has been missed.

The West Midlands area needs more servicing and stabling facilities for EMUs, I say again Soho is already running above capacity and units out stabled with no CET emptying options, the problem goes beyond the commissioning issue.

 

[Techniquest]

Fair enough on Soho being full, didn't realise there was already a need to stable stuff at BHM overnight.

Hopefully a new base both for 350s and 323s will arrive before too long and it'll be sorted. Well, so long as the place is future proofed as much as possible, ie allowing more sidings to be provided if necessary etc. Wouldn't surprise me if one was to open at Bromsgrove to go with the new station and (eventually) the newly electrified route. Even if it's only enough for no more than 6 EMUs it all helps!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Fair enough on Soho being full, didn't realise there was already a need to stable stuff at BHM overnight.

Hopefully a new base both for 350s and 323s will arrive before too long and it'll be sorted. Well, so long as the place is future proofed as much as possible, ie allowing more sidings to be provided if necessary etc. Wouldn't surprise me if one was to open at Bromsgrove to go with the new station and (eventually) the newly electrified route. Even if it's only enough for no more than 6 EMUs it all helps!

No space at Bromsgrove for a depot, the land will all be taken by the new arrangements, Duddeston is the prime location with the current Plant depot at Kings Norton another option.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cm...ransport-schemes/bromsgrove-rail-station.aspx

 

[Techniquest]

No space at Bromsgrove for a depot, the land will all be taken by the new arrangements, Duddeston is the prime location with the current Plant depot at Kings Norton another option.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cm...ransport-schemes/bromsgrove-rail-station.aspx

Fair play, cheers for the gen. Duddeston makes perfect sense with its rather central location, much more convenient than Bromsgrove at least.

Kings Norton would be handy but I just don't see it happening somehow. Call it a hunch that it definitely won't happen.

 

[Silverlinky]

368/69 are off into storage on Sunday.

5K03 runs as 1229 off Northampton Kings Heath, 1250 off Northampton
1309 pass Rugby, 1403-1412 Stafford, 1433-1452 Crewe, 1457 onto LNWR

 

[plastictaffy]

plenty of dead and secure siding space in wolverton works, and surely there is space in bletchley tmd sidings....

Only 2 (I think) roads are actually wired in the TMD............
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
When King's Heath was built, there were some questions asked about the design. It's only possible to bring units out towards Northampton - there is no Northbound access line. Also, LM actually have access to 67 Class 350's. King's Heath will only hold around half of that. The station surround will hold around 12 units, using platforms 4 and 5 and the river sidings. One unit stays out all night, one or two stable in Cov Yard, and a few stable at New Street and Crewe. As far as I am aware, the only units that get sent into LNWR at Crewe are those that need tanking and those that are due exams or running repairs - but sd0733 will have more of an idea. Everything else goes to Bletchley carriage sidings.
There really aren't too many places to stable more units. I did hear a rumour about the wired roads at Bletchley TMD being used to store units when they arrive, but I've not managed to confirm it yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Fair play, cheers for the gen. Duddeston makes perfect sense with its rather central location, much more convenient than Bromsgrove at least.
Kings Norton would be handy but I just don't see it happening somehow. Call it a hunch that it definitely won't happen.

Is Liverpool Allerton any good?
Being set up for NT 319s with CET.
Several LM services start from Lime St each day.

 

[Manchester77]

Not yet since the OHLE at Allerton needs modification for the 319s hence why a class 8 will be used when they first arrive at Allerton. Also with Allerton being the principle depot for the norths 319s long term I don't think there will be the capacity for them all as well as 350s. Could some 350s be stabled at Lime Street though?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

lots of talk on this thread about stabling units in stations but remember as some others have said you need to pump out the CET each day.

 

[sprinterguy]

lots of talk on this thread about stabling units in stations but remember as some others have said you need to pump out the CET each day.

Not necessarily each day: I don't remember clearly but when I was doing some work for c2c I think that the 357s might have been on a three day cycle for CET emptying (as well as making sure that all the units are tanked before a weekend where possible). There will probably be a similar cycle for the handful of 323s that stable at New Street overnight.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Not necessarily each day: I don't remember clearly but when I was doing some work for c2c I think that the 357s might have been on a three day cycle for CET emptying (as well as making sure that all the units are tanked before a weekend where possible). There will probably be a similar cycle for the handful of 323s that stable at New Street overnight.

OK not sure of the required frequency but I do know that LM have a lot of problems with 350s having loos locked out of use due to full tanks as a direct result of out-stabling. As for the 323s do they not dump onto the track?

 

[sprinterguy]

OK not sure of the required frequency but I do know that LM have a lot of problems with 350s having loos locked out of use due to full tanks as a direct result of out-stabling. As for the 323s do they not dump onto the track?

Yep, we have endless problems with the toilets on the 350s being locked out of use due to out-stabling - Train crew aren't best pleased with the situation.

The 323s have CET facilities (So says the traction manual, though it has been categorically stated by a good source that Northerns' units don't The tank is visible at the opposite end of the PTS vehicle to the pantograph).

 

[sd0733]

As far as I am aware, the only units that get sent into LNWR at Crewe are those that need tanking and those that are due exams or running repairs - but sd0733 will have more of an idea. .

I'm sure There are only 2 units which don't visit lnwr now in the week. The one which comes in at 23:04 from euston is parked in platform 2 all night then goes ecs to new street around 05:10 and one of the late arrivals from new street sits in 7 all night before forming the 6:47 to bham.

 

[moggie]

Shame they don't resurrect Euston Down Side Carriage siding shed.

 

[Class377/5]

Tony Miles has stated that the 350/3 are may to enter service with TPE to likely boost the Scottish services during the commonwealth games .