Malaysia Airlines MH370 "Lost Contact"

[ValleyLines142]

The tickets on the stolen passports were through to Amsterdam. Possible human trafficking as opposed to drugs. Passport theft is not rare in Thailand. I'' not sure it is that odd that nothing was found quickly. Unlike the Air France A330 that went down in the Atlantic the 777 doesn't have a carbon fibre vertical stabiliser that would float.

I see.

 

[fowler9]

I see.

On the other hand I may be totally wrong and something dodgy has gone on. Thoughts with the families anyway and all the best to you and yours.

 

[YorkshireBear]

A very interesting incident, i am surprised nothing has been found out at all yet. Amazing in the modern world to think it can just vanish.

Not an expert on air travel just a small passing interest (and regular watchings of air crash investigation).

The rumour that interests me most above is that phones are ringing through....

 

[GB]

It took 5 days to find AF447 after it wen't down so this situation is not totally unique.

 

[WestCoast]

The rumour that interests me most above is that phones are ringing through....

Reading other forums, this may have more to do with the technical ins and outs of mobile networks across borders more than anything. Many of the passengers would have been "international roaming" where it's not uncommon for connections to be made where there isn't one and suchlike.

There are a number of factors about this occurrence that set it apart from AF447, chiefly the absolute lack of warning messages. Such scenarios have pointed to the one that is dreaded by aviation professionals and agencies alike, pilot foul-play, such as the EgyptAir crash. That;s just one theory of many and could be discounted if and when more details emerge.

 

[fowler9]

A very interesting incident, i am surprised nothing has been found out at all yet. Amazing in the modern world to think it can just vanish.

Not an expert on air travel just a small passing interest (and regular watchings of air crash investigation).

The rumour that interests me most above is that phones are ringing through....

The phones ringing through could be down to the phone company. I think that fact would be less astounding than a bunch of highjackers managed to fly a 777 under the radar to an airfield big enough to take a 777 and let the hostages charge their phones.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Don't forget that civilian radar systems are not that powerful and certainly at long range rely on the transponder to locate a plane, so a plane could essentially disappear off radar if the transponder stopped working, although I would imagine that there are numerous backup systems for this vital device that means it would only stop after a major failure.

 

[fowler9]

Don't forget that civilian radar systems are not that powerful and certainly at long range rely on the transponder to locate a plane, so a plane could essentially disappear off radar if the transponder stopped working, although I would imagine that there are numerous backup systems for this vital device that means it would only stop after a major failure.

I doubt there are that many back up systems. How many would you reckon the Malay Air Force has? How many do you reckon the US Airforce has? If you use Flightradar24 and want to follow a plane flying over US airspace it goes to a back up system with a 5 minute time delay based on airport radar rather than transponder.

 

[bb21]

It took 5 days to find AF447 after it wen't down so this situation is not totally unique.

True, but the search area for AF447 was allegedly ten times larger.

I note that in line with many airlines' practice, the flight number has been retired. It is replaced with MH318 from the evening of the 13th.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Is this incident not similar to the AF447 flight? Could it not be errors in the instruments?

(sorry it isn't my area of expertise at all...)

 

[ModernRailways]

The rumour that interests me most above is that phones are ringing through....

If phones are ringing through and it's not some sort of technical limitation on the actual networks but that the phones could take a call if answered then surely they could be triangulated down to a certain area?

What I'm most interested in now though is why hasn't there been any satellite imagery looked into? It is odd that in the 21st Century something as complex as an airplane, and more specifically the 777 can just vanish.

 

[fowler9]

True, but the search area for AF447 was allegedly ten times larger.

I note that in line with many airlines' practice, the flight number has been retired. It is replaced with MH318 from the evening of the 13th.

AF447 had a big carbon fibre vertical stabilizer which floated with the Air France logo on it which helped people find it. The MAS plane has one made out of Aluminum and it will have sunk.

 

[CallySleeper]

Civvy services such as FR24 depend on FAA data in North America but primarily transponder data. In some remote parts of the world, such as over oceans, Africa and indeed southern Vietnam, transponder coverage can be weak or non-existent, sometimes depending on flight altitude. Some have been saying that in the area where flight MH370 went missing, this coverage was only available was only available above FL300. MH370 was cruising at FL350 when it's transponder signals stopped being received, but as I said before in some parts of the world it's completely normal for that to happen. Obviously in this case, at some point it also dropped off radar coverage (independent from transponder data)

 

[fowler9]

If phones are ringing through and it's not some sort of technical limitation on the actual networks but that the phones could take a call if answered then surely they could be triangulated down to a certain area?

What I'm most interested in now though is why hasn't there been any satellite imagery looked into? It is odd that in the 21st Century something as complex as an airplane, and more specifically the 777 can just vanish.

I don't think this is that weird. It was over the sea, it either broke up or went down in one piece. It was a big plane but it was going several hundred miles an hour, several miles up. You can cover an incredible area really quickly from up there. AF447 was missing for longer was it not?

 

[3141]

Yes, you would expect some trace of the plane to have been found by now. But some people seem to think it’s impossible that it could not have been found “in the twenty-first century” or “in this day and age”. In fact, there is nothing about 2014 that says that answers must be found within a few days, or ever. Things can go wrong, and it’s still a large world, especially over the ocean.

For those who had relatives on board it must be incredibly painful knowing that they are probably dead, but not knowing for sure and therefore leaving room for a very small hope which, if they can think about it dispassionately, they understand is unrealistic.

In the course of time wreckage may be found and perhaps there will be evidence about the causes of the plane’s disappearance. Meanwhile, we might reflect that although we are an amazingly clever and successful species, we are a long way from totally controlling the world, even though we like to imagine that we do, and we do not have the answers to everything.

 

[ECML180]

Just to add, regarding the use of modern technology such as satellite imagery. A crowdsourcing company is using satellite imagery to allow any user to search through an area generated for them and highlight anything of interest. Link here:

http://www.zerosixright.com/how-to-use-tomnod-to-find-mh370/

The fact that the general public can't find wreckage does give a good indication that a cover-up is unlikely.

 

[user15681]

The Chinese now claim to have found objects in the sea. Whether related or not is anyone's guess.

 

[edwin_m]

There was an incident a few years ago when an EasyJet flight from somewhere in Spain to Bristol lost all forms of radio communication and I think transponder too. Aware of the risk of being shot down if he did something unexpected, the pilot continued on course and landed at Bristol normally. Turned out there was an error in the system design which allowed a single point failure to take out what should have been duplicated systems. Details on the AAIB website somewhere.

I wonder if something similar here explains the lack of contact.

 

[bb21]

AF447 had a big carbon fibre vertical stabilizer which floated with the Air France logo on it which helped people find it. The MAS plane has one made out of Aluminum and it will have sunk.

While it is not impossible that the plane sank as a whole, it is highly likely that it had disintegrated before dropping into the ocean, so some bits would be floating as most people would expect, but nothing can be ruled out yet. Alien abduction any one? (Someone has to say it, especially if you believe the legends of Pan Am 914 - not me mind.)

A lot of political argy-bargy seems to be taking place as well with the Vietnamese accusing the Malaysian side of poor management and failing to provide clear instructions in the rescue mission.

 

[CallySleeper]

While it is not impossible that the plane sank as a whole, it is highly likely that it had disintegrated before dropping into the ocean

What makes you say it's 'highly likely'?

 

[bb21]

What makes you say it's 'highly likely'?

Just going by various evaluations and reports in the media.

Could be wrong though, since no one really knows.

 

[richw]

An oil rig worker in the china sea is now alleging he saw an object on fire in the sky the day it disappeared about 300 mile east of the flight path. New sightings of debris are several hundred miles west of expected path. All gets stranger by the day.

 

[crispy1978]

Sounds like this.....

 

[ECML180]

While it is not impossible that the plane sank as a whole, it is highly likely that it had disintegrated before dropping into the ocean,

What makes you say it's 'highly likely'?

Physics! It would have to be travelling pretty slowly to land, take on water and sink with nothing breaking off!

 

[WatcherZero]

Indeed, Boeing planes in particular have a tendency to break into 3 sections from the slightest shock such as going off a runway.

 

[Nym]

As apposed to McDonall Duglass that like to do four or five peices...

Airbus you never know.

 

[westcoaster]

As apposed to McDonall Duglass that like to do four or five peices...

Airbus you never know.

Md's like to bounce and flip over.

 

[starrymarkb]

Usually a high altitude breakup with give a large floating debris field often with large floating chunks as they will lose speed on the way down. An intact impact will give a much smaller area and much smaller debris. AF447 was doing about 120mph vertically when it hit the water. Swissair 111 was practically atomised by the impact with the water at 300mph!

 

[fowler9]

Usually a high altitude breakup with give a large floating debris field often with large floating chunks as they will lose speed on the way down. An intact impact will give a much smaller area and much smaller debris. AF447 was doing about 120mph vertically when it hit the water. Swissair 111 was practically atomised by the impact with the water at 300mph!

The thing is no one knows how this plane came down and since it was over the sea I have not heard anything in the slightest bit odd other than the stuff some people have in their heads about what caused it.

 

[stephen465fan]

The only scenario for why I could think of it sinking without a trace would be it hitting the water at such a slow speed without the force needed to tear itself apart... Another possibility is that the plane hit the water nose first, but that doesn't make sense at the moment either due to the lack of debris which I reckon would exist due to the speed it would have hit due its angle of attack...

All made even more confusing by the story that the phones of some of those onboard are still ringing... I doubt they'd still be working so deep underwater!!!