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Colas Class 70s - deliveries now underway
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Photohunter71
Member
Wasn't "Kestrel" of a 4000 hp power output or have I got that wrong whilst on the hp subject?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I think Kestrel was 4,000hp, it was a beast anyway. Problem iirc was that a certain percentage of power goes as waste heat and in the case of 4,000hp the UK loading gauge is not large enough to allow for the amount of heat exchanger's (radiators) required in a single locomotive design. I think it went to Russia where the lower ambient temperatures probably gave the loco a chance !.
Obviously that was years ago but I suspect there are still practicalities like this to consider. Even though things might be more efficient there is a law of physics somewhere in my brain that dictates a certain amount the power in an internal combustion engine HAS to go as heat.
Obviously that was years ago but I suspect there are still practicalities like this to consider. Even though things might be more efficient there is a law of physics somewhere in my brain that dictates a certain amount the power in an internal combustion engine HAS to go as heat.
Yep, Kestrel was 4000HP. The point of the size of cooler groups in relation to loading gauge is a good one.
Have you seen the size of the arse end of an ES44AC?
And the AC6000, well I think we'd need a separate wagon coupled behind just to carry the cooler group!
Anyway, I digress. I think we've seen the last of anything from Progress Rail (EMD) or G.E in this country from now on. I think that's rather unfortunate as I don't see anything from the rest of Europe being a worthy alternative in the long term scheme of things.
Its a slippery slope from now on IMO.
I also don't think we should forget in a hurry that EMD locomotives have been exported to over 70 country's world wide since their inception in 1922 and
there's good reason for that.........
They're bloody good!
Have you seen the size of the arse end of an ES44AC?
And the AC6000, well I think we'd need a separate wagon coupled behind just to carry the cooler group!
Anyway, I digress. I think we've seen the last of anything from Progress Rail (EMD) or G.E in this country from now on. I think that's rather unfortunate as I don't see anything from the rest of Europe being a worthy alternative in the long term scheme of things.
Its a slippery slope from now on IMO.
I also don't think we should forget in a hurry that EMD locomotives have been exported to over 70 country's world wide since their inception in 1922 and
there's good reason for that.........
They're bloody good!
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Photohunter71
Member
I thought so! Thanks for confirming that! I think the maximum we may get is 3,800hp. We'll just have to wait and see what is next in the way of locomotives after the 68 has gone through proving tests here.I still think there will be more 68's after the DRS order though.Also have a feeling we will at some point see a Voith maxima on our rails.
Yep, Kestrel was 4000HP. The point of the size of cooler groups in relation to loading gauge is a good one.
Have you seen the size of the arse end of an ES44AC?
And the AC6000, well I think we'd need a separate wagon coupled behind just to carry the cooler group!
Anyway, I digress. I think we've seen the last of anything from Progress Rail (EMD) or G.E in this country from now on. I think that's rather unfortunate as I don't see anything from the rest of Europe being a worthy alternative in the long term scheme of things.
Its a slippery slope from now on IMO.
I also don't think we should forget in a hurry that EMD locomotives have been exported to over 70 country's world wide since their inception in 1922 and
there's good reason for that.........
They're bloody good!
Even to the fact that they are still rebuilding and running 60 / 70 year old locos in some countries because they are more reliable and well considered over there GE rivals who aren't doing as well. And Ireland has been doing rather well out of GMs for a considerably long time too (the 201s are a slight exception because there not designed for Head End Power which IE ignored and thrashed them to near death)
I wonder what locos we'll see in the future too, Progress Rail Services will still have some presence in this country as they are a wholly owned subsidiary to Caterpillar Inc who provide who also provide the engines to DRS's Class 68s. I do reckon though on the electric side we may finally see either the Siemens Vectron or EuroSprinter designs, or Alstom Prima II, or even something from Skoda. On the diesel side we may see an appearance from Voith, but I think more Vossloh GMBH.
Beveridges
Established Member
66's are incredibly reliable and solid, they just don't break. Even when they are abused on trains that are way too heavy for them, they just keep going.
But the end of the 66 production line is great news, it is going to give the railway scene some variety that is so desperately needed. Plus, a lot more loco failures from the new unproven designs.
It is/was boring to see 66's at the head of nearly every diesel-hauled freight. They also had a rather poor sounding exhaust unless they were being thrashed in notch 8. They never failed which made every day more predictable.
We may now start to see more "micro fleets" on the freight scene as different operators try out different unproven designs, rather than 66 monotony. This has already given us an impressive variety of new DMU's & EMU's in the passenger sector, with all the different operators having "micro fleets" of various different units rather than one unit having a monopoly on everything. The freight scene could be heading the same way, rather than the yawn fest it has been where every new engine is a 66.
Unfortunately with railfreight unlikely to increase much (or at all) over the next 5 years & with virtually no outdated traction that needs replacing now, we may not see that many new loco designs coming over here unless more 66's get exported.
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Well yes, but hadn't heard that excuse. It did go to Russia.
My recollection is that Brush's Kestrel was beautiful, but way over target weight/axle hence got shelved by BR, at the time.
Photohunter71
Member
A sad sight indeed! But on the 70's,a mate and I were thinking about taking a day off work and seeing if we can get the class 68 and hopefully a 70! I've a feeling we may have seen the last of the 70's up here,hope I'm wrong-but that's my gut feeling.
I would like to see more variety too,so I hope I live long enough into the future to witness this.
I would like to see more variety too,so I hope I live long enough into the future to witness this.
The variety is out there, you just gotta go find it. In my part of the world, we have 37s, 56s, 57s, 56s, 66s, 67s, 70s and the 31? on the Network Rail train. Taking out 55022 and the 59s working on CrossRail and that's about as much fun as you can have nowadays.
Yup, cant disagree on any of that!
From an entirely crank viewpoint, its a bloody shame the sheds have those huge silencers on the roof. Their American counter parts like the SD70 and SD40-2 are unsilenced and sound absolutely hell fire on full full bore. (both use a v16 though instead of our 'poor relation' 710 v12- aka 66.)
Just for some trivia the 59 uses the same '645 v16' as the SD40-2 but its also bloody silencer fitted as we all know.
I also agree, we certainly need a break from 66's!!!
You guys are lucky you don't live down here in Cornwall. I work on the railway here and all I see from day to day are more or less 150, 153, 220, 221, HST and maybe the odd shed. We were really treated a few weeks ago, a 59 worked a stone train up country
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Was broken up some years ago too!
D1009
Established Member
70804 was at Westbury today.
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
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- 9,669
Tinsley as in Sheffield? What is it doing there?
Not Tinsley in Sheffield but a place called Tinsley Green (?) near Three Bridges. Perhaps someone with local knowledge of the area can confirm as TOPS says TINSLEYGN.
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TorqueOfTheDevil
Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2007
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- 276
So having a single reliable design, with the efficiencies which that brings, is less important than seeing a range of haulage, even if that means more failures with the inevitable effect of delays and added cost to freight and passenger services?
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
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- 9,669
Yes because its not as interesting for spotters which lets face it are the main focus of the FOCs.
:roll:
I find 66s interesting because they always pull something different which is what i usually look for!
Beveridges
Established Member
When I hear about "more 66's" arriving in the UK all I think is YAWN
The more recent arrivals of the *POWERHAUL* / Class 68 and other new future designs is/was far more exciting.
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Don't forget maintaining them badly so that the engines sound hellfire.:roll:
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Persistent loco failures will eventually result in the loss of rail freight to the motorways. How on earth can this be seen as being a bonus?
Tinsley Green is the junction South of Gatwick Airport which allows movements across a single line style ladder junction from the low numbered platforms / Down slow to the Down fast or from the Up Fast onto the Up loop / up slow.
When I left work on Friday evening 70803 / 70805 were shown top and tail on an engineers train Eastliegh to Tinsley Green which was due back early hours of Sunday AM, did this morph into just 70801 ?
This is the first time to my knowledge that a class 70 has set metal on Sussex route infrastructure so it would be good to see any photos....
Grid
Beveridges
Established Member
I never saw Freightliner suddenly lose loads of rail freight to the motorways when the Class 70 arrived on the scene with persistent failures ?
I think your exaggerating.
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a) I would not describe the 70s record as "persistent failures" anyway
b) The clue is in the word "eventually". If the product you are offering is perceived as unreliable, you will lose business whatever business you are in. That is why the boringly reliable 66s are the standard entry-level new loco. However, it is also good business sense to build towards the future. FL took a batch of locos small enough not to cause major problems (including reputational) if it proved a complete failure - which it wasn't, but probably not good enough for their future plans
Have to agree with this.
Look what happened to mail on rail!
Im happy to be proved wrong but didn't RM get ****ed off with unreliability of rail whilst the industry struggled with worn out equipment like 47's etc.
I know its a little OT but I think that was atleast one of the problems IIRC.
Todays freight customer is very intolerant and sensitive of any delay / failure attributed to the hauliers equipment.
Beveridges
Established Member
47s were in the minority. Especially so as the 67s arrived on the scene so don't blame poorly maintained locomotives for the loss of mail on rail! Thats not to say there was anything wrong with the old 47s anyway - Just saying no way to blame them when they had such a minor role in mail operations before the loss of mail was even thought of.
You'll find royal mail had excellent performance statistics - It beat any passenger service.
There was one and only one problem - costs - EWS charged a forturne and it was cheaper to send it by road. As if road could have been more reliable
have you seen how unreliable the motorways are ?The government don't care about being green in real terms. Performance on the roads can only be worse and will be 2 or 3 times slower at best.Most of royal mail was carried by 67s, 86s, 90s and 325s. Don't blame the old 47s they had very little to do with it after 1998.
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RichmondCommu
Established Member
It appears that you would prefer loco failures at the expense of FOC performance. And yet you call yourself a rail enthusiast.
ExRes
Established Member
As a former Res driver from early 1995 to late 2000 I can confirm that EWS was entirely to blame for the loss of confidence by Royal Mail, this was mainly due to the disgusting attitude of EWS 'management' who thought that cost cutting on 47 maintenance was the way forward in running a successful company, all we heard from 1996/7 onwards was that the 67's, the worst engine I've had the misfortune to drive IMHO, were coming to save the world so why waste money on keeping 47's in running condition. The 47's went from being reliable workhorses to overused and undermaintained nags because of EWS stupidity
Beveridges
Established Member
I call myself a trainspotter. Unlike some on here, I do not take offense from the word. Failures are interesting and make the rail scene unpredictable. Nowadays failures are rare mainly due to the increase in units. Multiple units - if one car fails - the other car(s) can keep it going in nearly all situations.
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carriageline
Established Member
- Joined
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- 1,897
Failures are interesting? What are you on 
sounds like your trying to cling on the past too much there buddy 
sounds like your trying to cling on the past too much there buddy - Status