Are there any changes you would make to National Express routes

[Welshman]

Returning to West Yorkshire, I've sometimes wondered if there would be a market for diverting an occasional Liverpool-Leeds shuttle[Service 060] off the M62 at Ainley Top, and along the Elland by-pass to Halifax and Bradford Interchange.

Given fair traffic conditions and a following wind, I consider the Ainley Top-Bradford section could be achievable in about 40 minutes.

I realise this would ruin the clockface 060 timetable, but it would restore a moderately fast service from Liverpool to both Halifax and Bradford - a journey which is now very slow by train[and sometimes involving a cross-Manchester transfer] since the demise of the through Bradford-Halifax- Manchester Victoria and Liverpool Exchange[ex L&Y] express services in the 1970s, and the more recent services to Lime St, calling at most stations along the line.

 

[Martin1988]

I've only used the Huddersfield to Sheffield section of the 564. It seemed to be the case that the majority of passengers going to London boarded at Sheffield so would a service which only called at Halifax, Huddersfield and Dewsbury only generate enough passengers to be viable? Also, there seemed to be several other passengers only traveling as far as Sheffield, either to Meadowhall or to the Interchange and some were also making connections onto other services at Sheffield.

I know it would only be a small alteration but given the fact that E Stott of Huddersfield work one or two weekend services on the 561, would there be any benefit in extending these beyond Bradford to Halifax and Huddersfield?

 

[GazUk]

I personally think the current 337 Paignton to Rugby route should be altered to serve Birmingham. This would enable passengers traveling from destinations south of Bristol to have a direct service to Birmingham without the need to change coaches and as this route also serves Gloucester and Cheltenham it could give passengers from there access to the early evening connectional opportunities from Birmingham.

Hello Martin, I'm from rugby and I've had the (dis)pleasure of travelling the 337 to and from Exeter, Iam sure when I was a kid I had to go via brum to get down to Exeter, anyway I was wondering what the frequencey is like on other routes that are operated on the national express network?

I always thought rugby should have more NE connections just compared to 1 in,1 out- and my sources have told me that arriva (in leics)who run the 337 are meant to be losing the route to another NE operator.

 

[howittpie]

I've only used the Huddersfield to Sheffield section of the 564. It seemed to be the case that the majority of passengers going to London boarded at Sheffield so would a service which only called at Halifax, Huddersfield and Dewsbury only generate enough passengers to be viable? Also, there seemed to be several other passengers only traveling as far as Sheffield, either to Meadowhall or to the Interchange and some were also making connections onto other services at Sheffield.

I know it would only be a small alteration but given the fact that E Stott of Huddersfield work one or two weekend services on the 561, would there be any benefit in extending these beyond Bradford to Halifax and Huddersfield?

I seem to remember that Yorkshire Wollen/West Riding ran a service from Huddersfield to London in competition with Nat Ex when they lost a Nat Ex contract. My memory is vague but think is called Dewsbury and Wakefield and possibly Pontefract I remeber it having Leyland Royal Tigers and Daf Van Hool double deckers on it.

As someone that has used the 465 a number of times is generates a good amount of local traffic on it especially at weekends example are Sheffield to Chesterfield.

An improvement I would like to see on the Nat Ex network are better service direct from the East Midlands to Scotland especially a direct service to Edinburgh.

 

[Deerfold]

I seem to remember that Yorkshire Wollen/West Riding ran a service from Huddersfield to London in competition with Nat Ex when they lost a Nat Ex contract. My memory is vague but think is called Dewsbury and Wakefield and possibly Pontefract I remeber it having Leyland Royal Tigers and Daf Van Hool double deckers on it.

I remember the X64 running to Halifax but am not sure of all the intermediate stops.

I remember seeing it (in approx 1994) whilst waiting for my then girlfriend's 4-hour delayed 564 (which must then have called at Milton Keynes Coachway) and not seeing the whole number so thinking it must be a duplicate until it came round the corner.

 

[howittpie]

It was the x64 and did also call at Halifax, I used the tea time departure from London a few times and always seemed busy.

 

[Martin1988]

Hello Martin, I'm from rugby and I've had the (dis)pleasure of travelling the 337 to and from Exeter, Iam sure when I was a kid I had to go via brum to get down to Exeter, anyway I was wondering what the frequencey is like on other routes that are operated on the national express network?

I always thought rugby should have more NE connections just compared to 1 in,1 out- and my sources have told me that arriva (in leics)who run the 337 are meant to be losing the route to another NE operator.

The only NE route I'm aware of which operates in Rugby is that 337 service. I'm not really aware of any other services that stop there. There are other destinations which have a greater choice of National Express departures.

I'm rather suprised that Arriva Midlands still have the 337 service to be honest. I wouldn't be half surprised if South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach end up taking it over.

 

[deltic]

I quite like the idea of interchanges outside the big cities. I don't want to spend 2hrs driving into london Victoria and then 2hrs driving out of london because that's the only connection. Why not one outside the city that they can stop at en-route (ala Golders green, but more sensibly placed?).
Same with Birmingham.

The achilles heel of coaches against trains is that the trains just cruise straight into the city centre. If your destination is a city on the coach, well that's something you have to live with, but if I'm not trying to go to a city, why would I want to go through it?

Moving Victoria Coach station to somewhere with direct tube access would be a start - if Euston wasn't going to be redeveloped for HS2 I would put it on top of that!

 

[starrymarkb]

The only NE route I'm aware of which operates in Rugby is that 337 service. I'm not really aware of any other services that stop there. There are other destinations which have a greater choice of National Express departures.

I'm rather suprised that Arriva Midlands still have the 337 service to be honest. I wouldn't be half surprised if South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach end up taking it over.

Or Parks?

The 337 does seem to have lost it's Levantes for a 56 plate Panther recently.

 

[Martin1988]

I agree with you about Parks of Hamilton being a possible choice of operator.

I've seen the 337 being operated by levantes on a couple of recent occasions but I have also seen older vehicles being used too. For about a year and a half before Arriva Derby lost the 320 Oxford-Birmingham-Bradford route they seemed to mainly operate it with van-hools as opposed to the levantes that were purchased new for the service.

 

[Robertj21a]

Arriva doesn't now have any National Express work as far as I know. They came off the 337 about 18-24 months ago.

Robert

 

[Deerfold]

Moving Victoria Coach station to somewhere with direct tube access would be a start - if Euston wasn't going to be redeveloped for HS2 I would put it on top of that!

That's a bit of a biggie...buying the land for it might be rather pricey - and I don't think that sort of money is available for coach services unfortunately. :-x

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That's a bit of a biggie...buying the land for it might be rather pricey - and I don't think that sort of money is available for coach services unfortunately. :-x

But many places have bus stations with direct rail access (including both Euston and Victoria!). I'm guessing the issue is that local authorities, including TfL, don't support coach services in the way they support bus services.

Personally I'd love to see a national network of regular turn-up-and-go coach services develop: The kind of thing where for example you might see a coach every half hour between London and Birmingham - with local authorities treating coach services as an important public transport mode - when it comes to things like working out bus lanes to get coaches into city centres more quickly.

The Oxford Tube seems to have been quite a success. While I doubt there are many places that could support quite the same frequency, I'm somewhat puzzled that no one seems to have tried roughly the same idea anywhere else.

 

[Deerfold]

But many places have bus stations with direct rail access (including both Euston and Victoria!). I'm guessing the issue is that local authorities, including TfL, don't support coach services in the way they support bus services.

Personally I'd love to see a national network of regular turn-up-and-go coach services develop: The kind of thing where for example you might see a coach every half hour between London and Birmingham - with local authorities treating coach services as an important public transport mode - when it comes to things like working out bus lanes to get coaches into city centres more quickly.

The Oxford Tube seems to have been quite a success. While I doubt there are many places that could support quite the same frequency, I'm somewhat puzzled that no one seems to have tried roughly the same idea anywhere else.

For most of the day there is a half-hourly National Express coach between Birmingham and London.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/assets/uploads/pdf/timetables/420.pdf

The problem with having a turn up and go coach network is that as standing on coaches is not allowed you have to have extra coaches on standby in case they're needed or people could end up waiting quite a while.

A few years ago NX relaunched the Birmingham - London service as exactly half hourly all day and hourly all night but a few holes have developed (including a rather major 6 hour one overnight from London).

National Express did develop a few services it branded as "NX Shuttle" including the London-Birmingham 420, Leeds - Sheffield 070, Leeds - Manchester 060 but few were better than half hourly and most had some services using other numbers as they were part of longer routes.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/assets/uploads/pdf/timetables/070.pdf

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For most of the day there is a half-hourly National Express coach between Birmingham and London.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/assets/uploads/pdf/timetables/420.pdf

National Express did develop a few services it branded as "NX Shuttle" including the London-Birmingham 420, Leeds - Sheffield 070, Leeds - Manchester 060 but few were better than half hourly and most had some services using other numbers as they were part of longer routes.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/assets/uploads/pdf/timetables/070.pdf

The original Shuttle services were the 011 Cambridge to London, 025 Brighton to London, 060 Leeds to Manchester and Liverpool - started in 1995 (I think) as turn up and travel

 

[Robertj21a]

Of course there's 'turn up and go' coaches working the Trent 'Red Arrow' - every 10 mins.

Robert

 

[freetoview33]

the 040 to Bristol is still very regular

 

[Martin1988]

The 040 Bristol-London service is hourly for most of the day although some journeys operate half hourly in the morning from Bristol and in the early evening back from London. It also runs half hourly from about 2PM onwards on Fridays and sundays in both directions.

NX policy now seems to be that passengers are only permitted to travel on the departure which their ticket is valid for and if they want to travel early they have to amend the ticket in advance. Previously on this service passengers were permitted to travel on an earlier departure if they had a full priced ticket and there were seats available. Last time I travelled on the service(back in July) I arrived in Bristol over an hour before my coach departed. There were a number of empty seats on an earlier departure but me and several other passengers were told we'd have to wait for our service to arrive. If they could have filled up this coach they might have created some more room on the next service, in which to carry some passengers booked on the one after that, and so on.

 

[deltic]

That's a bit of a biggie...buying the land for it might be rather pricey - and I don't think that sort of money is available for coach services unfortunately. :-x

Could be paid for by selling the existing coach station and putting a new one on top of Euston or Liverpool Street - although presumably neither option is really sensible.

I reckon Smithfield meat market would be a great location with a link to Farringdon - would then be served by tube, Crossrail and Thameslink.

 

[Deerfold]

The 040 Bristol-London service is hourly for most of the day although some journeys operate half hourly in the morning from Bristol and in the early evening back from London. It also runs half hourly from about 2PM onwards on Fridays and sundays in both directions.

NX policy now seems to be that passengers are only permitted to travel on the departure which their ticket is valid for and if they want to travel early they have to amend the ticket in advance. Previously on this service passengers were permitted to travel on an earlier departure if they had a full priced ticket and there were seats available. Last time I travelled on the service(back in July) I arrived in Bristol over an hour before my coach departed. There were a number of empty seats on an earlier departure but me and several other passengers were told we'd have to wait for our service to arrive. If they could have filled up this coach they might have created some more room on the next service, in which to carry some passengers booked on the one after that, and so on.

Passengers should be able to travel on an earlier departure if there are seats free (except when they have a "funfare" ticket which are being sold increasingly). Sometimes there are visually seats free but these are booked from a later departure point.

Could be paid for by selling the existing coach station and putting a new one on top of Euston or Liverpool Street - although presumably neither option is really sensible.

I reckon Smithfield meat market would be a great location with a link to Farringdon - would then be served by tube, Crossrail and Thameslink.

If TfL owned the coach station, yes. Unfortunately they only have a lease on it. Smithfield would be a bugger to get to from most directions.

 

[freetoview33]

Well it does look like Victoria will close but we need a new London Coach station which is first of all bigger as Victoria is too cramped and also in a place with transport/tube connections. But where that may be I have no idea but something will need to be done.

 

[Martin1988]

Over the last couple of years I've encountered drivers on the 040 who have made passengers amend their tickets in order to travel on an earlier departure, even when there have been vacant seats on the coach.

It seems to be the case that all drivers have been enforcing it since last july. I also witnessed a similar thing in Sheffield one afternoon with passengers traveling to Leeds/Bradford being made to wait for the service they were booked on.

The reason given to me by a driver was that some passengers were fraudulently using e-tickets by printing multiple copies, using one to travel on an earlier departure and giving another one to a friend/family member to travel on the service they were originally booked on.

The only time I've made a point of amending a ticket in advance of travel has been when I've known that a particular service has had a duplicate coach allocated to it or a couple of times when SGBC have put non NX vehicles out on the 040 and I've fancied a ride.

 

[Deerfold]

Over the last couple of years I've encountered drivers on the 040 who have made passengers amend their tickets in order to travel on an earlier departure, even when there have been vacant seats on the coach.

It seems to be the case that all drivers have been enforcing it since last july. I also witnessed a similar thing in Sheffield one afternoon with passengers traveling to Leeds/Bradford being made to wait for the service they were booked on.

It seems that most NX fares sold are now discounted fares which they treat much as advance tickets - so they can be changed to the new fare + £5 admin fee (except they can be changed up to the departure time of the coach).

They do sell fully flexible tickets but very few people now buy these.

The reason given to me by a driver was that some passengers were fraudulently using e-tickets by printing multiple copies, using one to travel on an earlier departure and giving another one to a friend/family member to travel on the service they were originally booked on.

That seems doubtful as drivers are supposed to note all the ticket codes used on their service - duplicates should shout out at them from their system - if not at the time then during audits.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Passengers should be able to travel on an earlier departure if there are seats free (except when they have a "funfare" ticket which are being sold increasingly). Sometimes there are visually seats free but these are booked from a later departure point.



If TfL owned the coach station, yes. Unfortunately they only have a lease on it. Smithfield would be a bugger to get to from most directions.

According to this article, central London is off the menu.

http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/p...e=eshomesandproperty&utm_medium=email21082013

Old Oak Common is the preferred location :roll:

 

[Martin1988]

Megabus seem to have a system at London VCS where subject to seats being available on an earlier service after all the reserved passengers have boarded, passengers can pay £5.00 to amend their tickets and travel on that service. Its a shame NX don't do something similar.

 

[starrymarkb]

According to this article, central London is off the menu.

http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/p...e=eshomesandproperty&utm_medium=email21082013

Old Oak Common is the preferred location :roll:

So that'll be a bugger to get to aswell. Might knock some time off the coach part of the journey esp from the M3/M4/M40 (given the usual Crawl to the Motorway) but again no tube links and I can't see HS2 accepting travelcards/Oyster :roll:

 

[freetoview33]

There are a lot of lines that pass through the old oak area so hopefully if a coach station was to be built there it would be good!

 

[deltic]

There are a lot of lines that pass through the old oak area so hopefully if a coach station was to be built there it would be good!

Nothing will happen at Old Oak Common until (if) the HS2/Crossrail interchange station opens which is 2026 at the earliest. In addition if no-one can find a replacement site for the yet to be bulit Crossrail Old Oak Common depot then nothing will be built there anyway

 

[Robertj21a]

Well it does look like Victoria will close but we need a new London Coach station which is first of all bigger as Victoria is too cramped and also in a place with transport/tube connections. But where that may be I have no idea but something will need to be done.

Why does 'something need to be done' [genuine question] - has coach travel increased so significantly ?

I'm only intrigued as VCS was always massively busy many years ago, and still coped.

Robert

 

[freetoview33]

Confusing, dirty, dangerous for coaches and passengers, no where really to wait without blacking other people and sometimes 2 coaches from different places leaving from the same gate. And very little room to expand services poor facilities. Having to cross very busy roads to get to Victoria station. The separate arrivals and departures. It looks horrible inside now. Yeah basically horrible!