Trains with insufficient announcements

[Muzer]

Very little in the railway appears to have had proper usability testing carried out (see my rants about the TVM software) and for something as important as a sign to say what station you're at, as well as signs for the passenger to know what platform they're on etc, should ALL be standardised and not up to TOCs to change as and when to fit their corporate image.

I'm quite happy right now that they are allowed to choose, because it seems that most TOCs' sign-designing departments are less stupid than Network Rail's!

 

[Central Trains]

Just been on a TPE service to Middlesbrough.

Running late. No announcements beyond the auto ones. No sight of the guard (not busy).

Arrived just as the last Whitby service left the opposite platform.

Good to see an integrated railway....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what you find with TPE either auto announcements then the guard repeating the same script again! Or just the auto ones.

 

[jon0844]

I'm quite happy right now that they are allowed to choose, because it seems that most TOCs' sign-designing departments are less stupid than Network Rail's!

But I am suggesting a new sign design, that is highly visible, would be used.

Has anyone considered signs with reflective backgrounds (similar to those used on high visibility clothing), that would pick up the light from the train on the platform? Use that, with suitably boldened text, and you might not even need to investigate my back/sidelit LED illumination idea.

 

[Philip]

On the subject of TPE auto announcements, they were quite good to begin with and didn't go through the calling pattern after each stop, but they were re-programmed a couple of years after they entered service and now they're quite annoying - she goes on too much. She used to say "......if alighting at Manchester Piccadilly", now she says "if you are leaving the train....." Also there was a second auto-announcer woman who made safety and security announcements, she had a rather strong Yorkshire accent (one thing I remember was the smorke detectors!) but I've not heard her on 185s for years.

I noticed a few times a few years back that when a 185 wasn't on its normal calling pattern because of line works etc it reverted to the original PA software - does this still happen now on these occasions?

 

[transmanche]

I've even thought the same should apply at motorway service stations. Use the official international standard roadsigns and not modified ones for Welcome Break, Moto etc.

Grr that's something which really annoys me. Signs such as this:

which are presumably meant to indicate a warning of a pedestrian crossing. But using a circular (prohibition) sign changes the meaning to 'pedestrians prohibited from using the crossing'.

 

[D1009]

On the subject of TPE auto announcements, they were quite good to begin with and didn't go through the calling pattern after each stop, but they were re-programmed a couple of years after they entered service and now they're quite annoying - she goes on too much. She used to say "......if alighting at Manchester Piccadilly", now she says "if you are leaving the train....." Also there was a second auto-announcer woman who made safety and security announcements, she had a rather strong Yorkshire accent (one thing I remember was the smoke detectors!) but I've not heard her on 185s for years.

This thread is about insufficient announcements. I think the subject of excessive announcements has already been done to death on here several times!

 

[TUC]

Every station was announced tonight on the 1715 Leeds to Selby despite it being a late running busy train. The guard also did an effective job at Leeds, motivating passengers to use all the doors to get on the train quickly, as she moved down the platform.

Just goes to show what a well motivated member of staff somehow finds the time to do!

 

[CalderRail]

Actually the reverse is true. Studies have shown that mixed case signs are more legible and people can read them at a greater distance. (I believe it's something to do with being able to identify the 'shape' of the word.)

That's why road signs moved over to mixed case in the 1960s with the adoption of the 'Transport' font. And IIRC current accessibility legislation mandates the use of mixed case lettering.

There has been masses of research into legibility of text in low light and low-duration comprehension.

Mixed case is indeed generally used because it makes picking out the start of words easier.

Sans Serif fonts are used because it makes the shape of the individual letters more consistent and easier for those with dyslexia to identify quickly.

Rail, Transport, Motorway and Johnston typefaces (the latter being the one used by London underground) are all variations on the basic principle.

 

[TUC]

I travelled on FCC between St. Pancras and Elephant and Castle yesterday and the total lack of announcements was very noticeable, especially so at St Pancras where the tube strike would have meant a lot of unfamiliar travellers on board but no attempt to serve their needs. It was also striking how poor the signage is at stations such as Farringdon.

 

[mralexn]

The Penzance-Aberdeen, Glasgow-Mallaig, Inverness-Wick, Heart of Wales, Cambrian and Cumbrian Coast line (Preston/Lancaster-Carlisle services) have the problem of too many stations to list and the requirement to repeat it in Welsh would cause some people's minds to wander off mid-flow.

I don't know whether it is a problem with the recording equipment or the guard/driver but I've found it really difficult to hear some of my Northern Rail journeys calling points. An example is hearing 'Zee Hill, ... Fold, Afton'.

You mean the Exeter St Davids > Aberdeen and the Aberdeen > Exeter St. Davids (if your lucky) surely :P

 

[Kite159]

Yesterday I went on some Greater Anglia services within the London Zones, and out of the 5 train journies, only 1 had any sort of announcements (Enfield Town to Seven Sisters)

(not to mention about what is the point of fencing off the unused fast platforms of some of the stations between Straford and Romford when they leave the gates open?)

 

[starrymarkb]

I like the Swiss ones in 3 languages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhWR7Fc1o10
http://youtu.be/3pBG2AZsozY?t=2m50s

 

[Murph]

Rail, Transport, Motorway and Johnston typefaces (the latter being the one used by London underground) are all variations on the basic principle.

Don't forget Gill Sans, which was LNER's contribution to the issue. It's one of my personal favourites, very clean and clear for signs, posters, etc (which was the design spec for it).

 

[starrymarkb]

Rail, Transport, Motorway and Johnston typefaces (the latter being the one used by London underground) are all variations on the basic principle.

IIRC Transport is the standard for Gov.uk because of it's legibility.

 

[Drsatan]

I travelled on a couple of Valley Lines services last year and noticed that there are no announcements, presumably because all announcements would need to be bilingual. For someone unfamiliar with the area, this is rather disconcerting since the station signs at quite a few Valley Lines stations aren't very visible when dark.

The only problem with conventional announcements (where a list of stations would be given in English and Welsh after each stop) would be that most passengers would lose interest in the announcement after a few stations had been listed. Why not structure announcements the following way:

After each stop: "This train terminates at xxx. The next stop will be xxx."

This is similar to the iBus announcements in London. The example I've given is an oversimplification but might be a model to follow.

 

[Michael.Y]

Bilingual onboard announcements on ATW are not necessary. On most services a quick anno by the guard saying "We are now arriving at...." does occur. Sounds like you either got lazy guards or broken PA systems.

Also, anyone unfamiliar to the route should plan beforehand or ask the guard when boarding instead of relying on announcements.

 

[Drsatan]

Bilingual onboard announcements on ATW are not necessary. On most services a quick anno by the guard saying "We are now arriving at...." does occur. Sounds like you either got lazy guards or broken PA systems.

Also, anyone unfamiliar to the route should plan beforehand or ask the guard when boarding instead of relying on announcements.

I don't think every passenger will be willing to ask the guard for assistance before boarding. From my experience, not all guards will check tickets (on my local line in England, the guard stays in the rear cab after 21:00), so unless the passenger looks for the guard, the guard won't be able to provide assistance.

With regards to bilingual announcements, I would assume the WAG would like these to be provided on any new stock.

 

[Murph]

Grr that's something which really annoys me. Signs such as this:

which are presumably meant to indicate a warning of a pedestrian crossing. But using a circular (prohibition) sign changes the meaning to 'pedestrians prohibited from using the crossing'.

There's really no excuse for getting UK road signs wrong, as the specs and designs are freely available from DfT. Copyright isn't an issue, as they are Crown Copyright, with an automatic free license available from the DfT website, with downloadable vector graphics files for them (either SVG or EPS, can't remember which, plus possibly some other formats).

 

[Michael.Y]

I don't think every passenger will be willing to ask the guard for assistance before boarding. From my experience, not all guards will check tickets (on my local line in England, the guard stays in the rear cab after 21:00), so unless the passenger looks for the guard, the guard won't be able to provide assistance.

Not every passenger. 99% will be familiar with their route and know where and when to get off. It's the 1% who are visitors who should take some responsibility to find out when they need to, either by checking their route/journey beforehand or asking assistance; and in practice I find people do this.

Incidentally on all Valley Line trains the guard has to exit his cab to open doors. On 142, 143 and 153 units he must enter the passenger saloon to do this. He is easily found. Just one small benefit of non-DOO trains.

With regards to bilingual announcements, I would assume the WAG would like these to be provided on any new stock.

Again, not necessarily. On Class 175s and recycled 158s the auto annos are English only but the displays sometimes show Welsh translations for some stations, like Cryw/Crewe.

Hopefully on the second-hand stock the VL will "inherit" after electrification there will be CIS boards as well.

 

[Deerfold]

After each stop: "This train terminates at xxx. The next stop will be xxx."

This is similar to the iBus announcements in London. The example I've given is an oversimplification but might be a model to follow.

The problem with that is that not all train services stop at all stations whereas all London bus routes with the same number will use the same stops (except for a couple of exceptions).

 

[macka]

There's really no excuse for getting UK road signs wrong, as the specs and designs are freely available from DfT. Copyright isn't an issue, as they are Crown Copyright, with an automatic free license available from the DfT website, with downloadable vector graphics files for them (either SVG or EPS, can't remember which, plus possibly some other formats).

That car park probably belongs to Moto, one of the motorway services companies. They love using their own circular signage. They got criticised recently for not using official signage standards, so what did they do? They replaced the symbols and font with the official versions on the same circular signage.

 

[Murph]

That car park probably belongs to Moto, one of the motorway services companies. They love using their own circular signage. They got criticised recently for not using official signage standards, so what did they do? They replaced the symbols and font with the official versions on the same circular signage.

Yes, having checked the official zebra crossing warning sign, it looks like some utter idiot has taken the correct middle bit from the real triangular sign, and jammed it into a circle to create gibberish/nonsense. (To be clear, if the person responsible for those signs ever reads this, I did indeed call you an "utter idiot", and unapologetically stand by that, as well as claiming that you are an incompetent fool who should not be allowed to manage anything to do with transport.)

 

[jon0844]

I so hope he or she does read that.

 

[starrymarkb]

Yes, having checked the official zebra crossing warning sign, it looks like some utter idiot has taken the correct middle bit from the real triangular sign, and jammed it into a circle to create gibberish/nonsense. (To be clear, if the person responsible for those signs ever reads this, I did indeed call you an "utter idiot", and unapologetically stand by that, as well as claiming that you are an incompetent fool who should not be allowed to manage anything to do with transport.)

It was Granada (Pre Moto) - Thankfully New Installations have to be Standard signage.

Oh but meanwhile - You Must Travelodge

and You Must Dog

 

[TUC]

Also, anyone unfamiliar to the route should plan beforehand or ask the guard when boarding instead of relying on announcements.

Why not, like any other business, take the most customer-friendly approach rather than say 'they should plan in advance'? The aim is to attract as many passengers as possible isn''t it?

 

[starrymarkb]

Also, anyone unfamiliar to the route should plan beforehand or ask the guard when boarding instead of relying on announcements.

I'd rather have an Auto Announcer - it provides some reassurance, especially if you are somewhere unfamiliar and it's difficult to count stops (on a bus route for example) - The Systems on the Continent often show the next 3 stops on LCD monitors throughout the passenger areas.

 

[fowler9]

I'd rather have an Auto Announcer - it provides some reassurance, especially if you are somewhere unfamiliar and it's difficult to count stops (on a bus route for example) - The Systems on the Continent often show the next 3 stops on LCD monitors throughout the passenger areas.

I loved the announcements on the Santiago underground. It was a childs voice reading out the name of the next station. Lots of fun. Ha ha.

 

[A-driver]

Why not, like any other business, take the most customer-friendly approach rather than say 'they should plan in advance'? The aim is to attract as many passengers as possible isn''t it?

Not really, especially on packed commuter routes when the more people you attract the worse you make the travelling conditions!