Trains with insufficient announcements

[transmanche]

There doesn't seem to be quite as much delight in using 20 words when far less will do on the continent.

Indeed, compare the Berlin U-Bahn's "Ausstieg Rechts" with the Victoria line's "Doors will open on the right-hand side".

Many announcements are unnecessarily long because of a bizarre insistence on using the third person, as if this is somehow "more professional". One that really annoys me is on ATWs 175s: “Would all customers please dispose of litter in bins provided on trains and stations", when "Please put your litter in a bin" would suffice.

 

[jon0844]

I prefer the Australian signs I saw; 'Don't be a tosser. Throw your rubbish in a bin' (or words to that effect, but the key one being 'tosser').

Why say please? It shouldn't be a polite request, but one that tells you to do it - and that you're an anti-social t**t if you don't.

I know it's all about good PR, but sometimes I do think that the only way to get people to comply these days is to shame them into doing it. If you make it quite clear that chucking rubbish on the floor or putting your feet on the seats makes you look like a C-word, perhaps people would be less inclined to do it.

(Whoops - went a bit off topic there!)

 

[transmanche]

I prefer the Australian signs I saw; 'Don't be a tosser. Throw your rubbish in a bin' (or words to that effect, but the key one being 'tosser').

Australian signs can be quite blunt! My favourite is the "If you drink, then drive, you're a bloody idiot" one.

 

[RPM]

I too have never come across a driver who couldn't be bothered to enter a PIS code into the system. They aren't the most reliable of systems though and there are therefore frequent occasions when it is necessary for the driver to take over announcing. I personally have no issue with this, in fact I quite like doing the announcements, but in terms of what you might term "cab workload", announcing is the lowest priority. In other words a driver must not let announcing distract them in any way from the driving task. Where I am, this is understood and encouraged by management. 95% of the time it is perfectly possible to announce station stops but if I'm experiencing low adhesion, dealing with a GSMR message, blowing up for track workers etc then an announcement will be missed.

As a slight aside, I often see moans on Twitter about explanation/apology announcements not being made on slow moving trains (DOO). The fact is that I and many other drivers will not make PA announcements when running under cautionary signals. It is too much of a SPAD risk. I will happily let the pax know what is going on if I have actually come to stand at a red, but otherwise when running on yellows and double yellows the announcement has to wait until I am once again running on clear signals.

 

[A-driver]

As a slight aside, I often see moans on Twitter about explanation/apology announcements not being made on slow moving trains (DOO). The fact is that I and many other drivers will not make PA announcements when running under cautionary signals. It is too much of a SPAD risk. I will happily let the pax know what is going on if I have actually come to stand at a red, but otherwise when running on yellows and double yellows the announcement has to wait until I am once again running on clear signals.

Absolutely agree with that. Plus I know an announcment should be made during a delay but I have seen things on twitter where drivers are obviously being told to pass signals at danger due to faults. People seem to complain that the driver dosnt tell them what is going on until afterwards. Simply because it's certainly not safe to make announcements during the communication with signaller or subsequent movement and pausing to make an announcement will only lengthen the delay.

 

[PHILIPE]

I once travelled on a 175 on the Marches Route when the visual displays and automated announcements were a stop out.

 

[Muzer]

This happened to me on the GOBLIN, I think the driver was suffering from wheelslip and also stopped at a red signal at some point. I think these two things combined made the system think the stop at the red signal was a station.

 

[DT611]

Not in this country but a good few years ago I was travelling from Dublin to Tralee the train from Mallow to Tralee was Craven Stock which, due to their age, didn't have any PA system, The journey only lasts a few stops but as the conductor came on Revenue checks he would announce the next stop. Not something I am sure is possible for many areas but a nice touch none the less.

the PA system on some of those carriges worked, others partly worked, others didn't, it was pot luck as to which you got, the mark 2 ds had the same problem

 

[leedslad82]

I once travelled on a 175 on the Marches Route when the visual displays and automated announcements were a stop out.

Happens all the time on northerns skipton and ilkley trains. The worst been a skipton service that suddenly started announcing stops on the ilkley line. Very confusing

 

[TUC]

Happens all the time on northerns skipton and ilkley trains.

That's totally unacceptable. The potential for a vulnerable person to be misled and get off at the wrong station and be stranded should be all too clear. One of those things that Northern are well capable of fixing and in reality have no excuse other that they're too disorganised even to get the basics right.

 

[ungreat]

Would love some different codes to put in PIS as a DOO driver...
"Dont all get off the same doors cos its near the exit of the station-exercise is good"
"Can you get to the station earlier so you dont have to hold the doors open for your mates-I'm sick of explaining why I'm late"
"Put your crap in the bins-yes,there are some and they arent table/chair or floor shaped"
"The yellow line IS there for a reason,and it isnt for standing on or over to read your paper/phone/kindle/fingernails."
Theres many more,but not printable!

 

[LowLevel]

Absolutely agree with that. Plus I know an announcment should be made during a delay but I have seen things on twitter where drivers are obviously being told to pass signals at danger due to faults. People seem to complain that the driver dosnt tell them what is going on until afterwards. Simply because it's certainly not safe to make announcements during the communication with signaller or subsequent movement and pausing to make an announcement will only lengthen the delay.

Unfortunately trains manned by a driver only = significantly reduced customer service and that's the way these TOCs have decided to go - can't be helped really!

 

[Deerfold]

Happens all the time on northerns skipton and ilkley trains. The worst been a skipton service that suddenly started announcing stops on the ilkley line. Very confusing

I've had one announce "Shipley" at every stop from Shipley to Crossflatts. Then before Keighley it announced all the stations from "Shipley" to "Skipton" before correctly announcing "Keighley".

 

[BuhSnarf]

I agree it must be hard for DOO services but what is Northern's excuse?

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[Yew]

Perhaps there were not as many unstaffed stations in those days, and usually a porter on the platform to call-out the name of the station when the train stopped. Also, as the trains were not air-conditioned, there might even be a window open in the carriage or vestibule[when you had to open the window to open the door], which allowed the outside voice to be heard more clearly.

Dont forget slam doors meaning longer dwell times, and the possibility to jump out the train whilst its still moving slightly?

 

[DeeGee]

Perhaps there were not as many unstaffed stations in those days, and usually a porter on the platform to call-out the name of the station when the train stopped. Also, as the trains were not air-conditioned, there might even be a window open in the carriage or vestibule[when you had to open the window to open the door], which allowed the outside voice to be heard more clearly.

I travelled a lot on slam-door stock in the Network SouthEast region in the 1990s. Although it wasn't every station, there were very clear recorded announcements on platforms which could be heard through the opened windows.

A mate of mine was just the other day testing me on the stations between London Victoria and Ashford via Maidstone East as we both used to travel that way a bit.

In fact, as far back as the late 1970s, aged 3 or 4, I could recite by heart the stations from Three Bridges to Portsmouth(?) based purely on the on-station announcements on that journey.

You can't hear anything on a station platform these days from inside the train, and the long station announcements have been replaced with information screens. Which are obviously not as much use.

 

[Searle]

You're extremely lucky to get any announcements on a FCC 313 on the Hertford Loop. No PIS either!

 

[A-driver]

You're extremely lucky to get any announcements on a FCC 313 on the Hertford Loop. No PIS either!

Has been discussed up thread with reasons given for no driver announcements.

 

[Ediswan]

or it's dark outside

This is where things went wrong. Station signs were originally large and likely lit. At other times, every platform light was a backlit station name. Now all you get is few small signs, often poorly lit. Watton-at-Stone is especially poor. Even if you know where you are, it is hard to spot the station name from the train.

 

[PHILIPE]

This is where things went wrong. Station signs were originally large and likely lit. At other times, every platform light was a backlit station name. Now all you get is few small signs, often poorly lit. Watton-at-Stone is especially poor. Even if you know where you are, it is hard to spot the station name from the train.

Back in the old days when stations when manned, the bloke on the platform called out the name of the station. There was no facility for on train announcements in those days, of course.

 

[Mugby]

This is where things went wrong. Station signs were originally large and likely lit. At other times, every platform light was a backlit station name. Now all you get is few small signs, often poorly lit. Watton-at-Stone is especially poor. Even if you know where you are, it is hard to spot the station name from the train.

Good point, the fact that station name signs are now so small and in lower case lettering doesn't help at all, there's nothing to beat large block capitals for clarity.

 

[Deerfold]

Good point, the fact that station name signs are now so small and in lower case lettering doesn't help at all, there's nothing to beat large block capitals for clarity.

Larger would certainly help but for me Mixed Case is far clearer than block capitals.

If I'm on the all-stopper on the Calder Valley and have dropped off for a few minutes

And the options are SMITHY BRIDGE and SOWERBY BRIDGE

OR Smithy Bridge and Sowerby Bridge

I think I'd identify the Mixed Case more quickly.

 

[transmanche]

Good point, the fact that station name signs are now so small and in lower case lettering doesn't help at all, there's nothing to beat large block capitals for clarity.

Actually the reverse is true. Studies have shown that mixed case signs are more legible and people can read them at a greater distance. (I believe it's something to do with being able to identify the 'shape' of the word.)

That's why road signs moved over to mixed case in the 1960s with the adoption of the 'Transport' font. And IIRC current accessibility legislation mandates the use of mixed case lettering.

 

[ainsworth74]

Larger would certainly help but for me Mixed Case is far clearer than block capitals.

I'm lead to believe that's why most road signs for locations are in mixed case rather than block capitals.

 

[jon0844]

I see FCC has put a new shelter further along platform 1 at Hatfield, which has solar powered lighting.

We've probably all seen the LED backlight (or sidelit) signs used by some restaurants, or the backlit bus timetables at some London stops.

It really wouldn't be difficult, or expensive, to employ back/side illuminated signs to make it easier to see where you are at night. And perhaps a few more signs would help, as some platforms can have them very widely spaced so there won't even be one visible from your window - lit or not.

 

[Marton]

Just been on a TPE service to Middlesbrough.

Running late. No announcements beyond the auto ones. No sight of the guard (not busy).

Arrived just as the last Whitby service left the opposite platform.

Good to see an integrated railway....



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[Marton]

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[maniacmartin]

I can sympathise with those complaining about the FCC DOO announcements. Back when I used to commute Hatfield - Finsbury Park, a lot of times the PA system wasn't audible even if the driver was talking.

On the odd occasion I took the stopper to get off at an intermediate station, I had to use the GPS in my phone to keep track of where we were as there were no announcements and the station signs aren't lit. I agree that a simple announcement "This is Exampleville" would be very useful at night, even if it were only possible to be made after the train has come to a stop.

 

[Muzer]

The sign problem isn't helped by South West Trains stupidly adopting the moronic Network Rail sign standard. Seems it was picked out of a hat rather than any actual usability testing done. The old signs (black on white), which reflected as much light as possible and were quite easy to see on poorly-lit stations, have been replaced by stupid white on dark blue, which are impossible to see at night.

 

[jon0844]

Very little in the railway appears to have had proper usability testing carried out (see my rants about the TVM software) and for something as important as a sign to say what station you're at, as well as signs for the passenger to know what platform they're on etc, should ALL be standardised and not up to TOCs to change as and when to fit their corporate image.

I've even thought the same should apply at motorway service stations. Use the official international standard roadsigns and not modified ones for Welcome Break, Moto etc.

How they do their timetables and general posters to advertise travel/offers etc is up to them - but just as you'd always expect to see a recognisable fire exit sign, or safety notices, I think some other things should be 'protected'.