Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[YorkshireBear]

Not only is the Chord part of the Hub it is the central focal point without which the Hub simply would not work in its planned form.

 

[lancastrian]

Thanks for that. Ok, so Salford Central will have 5 platforms and will serve both the Liverpool (Chat Moss) lines and the Ordsall curve. The vegetation clearance between 3 & 4 is presumably the first sign of progress. There seem to be at least 4 schemes involved and I am not entirely clear where the boundaries lie between them and to what extent they overlap: NW electrification, Northern Hub, Ordsall Curve, GMPTE or local government funding for Salford Central expansion. They are obviously interrelated and the timing and staging of each affects the others.

Actually Salford Central used to have 5 platforms in the past, the current platforms 1 & 2, as well as the disused ones 3 & 4, but along side platform 4 was a bay platform number 5. This used to be used in the past for the East Lancashire Services that diverted off the Bolton line at Clifton Junction.

Infact if you manage to see off the end of platform 2, you can still see the site of the former bay platform. To be honest it was a lot easier before they put up the fence separating platforms 2 & 3. Plus you certainly could see it very clearly when platform 4 was still open.

If this does get done, I am sure it will be a great improvement, as well as many interchange possibilities, similar to the way Haymarket does in Edinburgh.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There is a talk by the Permanent Way Institution in Leeds tomorrow on the Preston-Blackpool line upgrades including electrification if anyone is interested.

https://www.thepwi.org/calendar/event/view?id=149
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Is there likely to be problems with capacity through Salford with everything stopping?

Also as put on the Blackpool Thread, there is a talk on the upgrade of the Preston-Blackpool line including electrification (i think) tommorow in Leeds see other thread for details.

 

[snail]

And to bring the Salford Central tangent back on topic, platform 4(5) now has OHLE gantries extending over the Chat Moss lines!

 

[DJH1971]

And to bring the Salford Central tangent back on topic, platform 4(5) now has OHLE gantries extending over the Chat Moss lines!

Showing up more on the landscape now!

They need to get a move on with the rest between Earlestown to Wavertree, and from Huyton to Wigan.

Only 11 months left after all. :roll:

 

[deltic08]

Does anybody know if the talk in Leeds is open to non members?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Is there likely to be problems with capacity through Salford with everything stopping?....

AIUI, the four/five 'new' services each hour would use P3/P4, so not interfere with the current stopping services and there are plans/rumours that the existing one/two Chat Moss stopping services each hour will be diverted to Oxford Road/Piccadilly anyway.

 

[ianhr]

AIUI, the four/five 'new' services each hour would use P3/P4, so not interfere with the current stopping services and there are plans/rumours that the existing one/two Chat Moss stopping services each hour will be diverted to Oxford Road/Piccadilly anyway.

They need to get the diagrams sorted out. There are going to be a LOT of conflicting movements in close proximity: at each apex of the triangle formed when the chord is built (I assume it will be possible to hold a train on each side of the triangle if the overlaps allow) + the Windsor Bridge Junctions + Castlefield/Deansgate Junctions.

It will be good to see more trains serving Salford Central which is currently a grossly underused resource. With platforms 3, 4 & 5 and some reversible lines I assume it will be possible for an express to pass a stopping train there. Does anyone have a drawing for the proposed track layout? Will Deal Street Junction be modified?

 

[Viscount702]

They need to get the diagrams sorted out. There are going to be a LOT of conflicting movements in close proximity: at each apex of the triangle formed when the chord is built (I assume it will be possible to hold a train on each side of the triangle if the overlaps allow) + the Windsor Bridge Junctions + Castlefield/Deansgate Junctions.

It will be good to see more trains serving Salford Central which is currently a grossly underused resource. With platforms 3, 4 & 5 and some reversible lines I assume it will be possible for an express to pass a stopping train there. Does anyone have a drawing for the proposed track layout? Will Deal Street Junction be modified?

All the plans are on the NR website. see my post above.

As I understand the drawings the eastbound tracks off the Moss and the Chord will merge just before Salford Central and enter platform 3 (if reopened for passengers.)

Westbound the tracks will divide to the east of Salford Central. Trains for the Chat Moss route will use platform 4 and those for the Chord platform 5. I don't think there are any reversible lines ( I did originally) because the proposed track layout wouldn't seem to permit reversible working.

It has been said there will be track layout changes either side of Victoria but I have not seen anything to show what they will be if afte rall anything is done. It is possible that track changes (if any) at Deal Street Junction could allow reversible working which I think it should but nothing showing up at the moment.

 

[The Planner]

There are new crossovers going in between Deal St and Vic.

 

[Viscount702]

There are new crossovers going in between Deal St and Vic.

Thanks.

Does that mean one or more of the lines through Central (I was thinking mainly of the one through Platform 4) will be reversible

 

[WatcherZero]

It has been said there will be track layout changes either side of Victoria but I have not seen anything to show what they will be if afte rall anything is done. It is possible that track changes (if any) at Deal Street Junction could allow reversible working which I think it should but nothing showing up at the moment.

I dont know exactly what alterations they did but some were done on the western side over Christmas and more are scheduled for the western side and eastern side during the summer.

 

[RhysTheBeast]

I dont know exactly what alterations they did but some were done on the western side over Christmas and more are scheduled for the western side and eastern side during the summer.

I would have thought the plan was for Stalybridge to be the terminus for westbound services, and thus reversal would take place there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would have thought the plan was for Stalybridge to be the terminus for westbound services, and thus reversal would take place there.

I am wondering what services will be terminating in the proposed bay platform at Rochdale station ?

 

[ianhr]

I am wondering what services will be terminating in the proposed bay platform at Rochdale station ?

I would have thought electric trains from the Chat Moss route and from the chord should run through 3 & 4 at ManVic and then either turn at Stalybridge or continue across the Pennines. DMUs from the Wigan/Southport line and from the Blackburn via Bolton line should go to 5 & 6 at ManVic then on to turn at Rochdale, or through to Yorkshire via the Summit tunnel route. This would maximise the use of the electrification currently authorised and reduce conflicting movements at Deal St Junction and Miles Platting. This more or less reinstates the segregation of the LNWR & L&YR routes that existed before Exchange was closed.

Do we know any more about the extra platforms at Rochdale? Where are electric trains from Blackpool/Preston via Chorley & Bolton going to go? MIA and ManVic as at present, or other destinations? Is there still space for a turnback on the trackbed of the Queen's Park line just east of P5 & 6 for trains terminating at ManVic? There seems to be a strong attachment, for reasons not entirely clear to me, to the Preston-Hazel Grove working....at least this can eventually become an EMU.

 

[Geeves]

No track alterations have occured yet at Vic Watcher, well except for the lowering works. The lines through Salford and about midway along the line towards Ordsall Lane are already reversable, you could run 4 trains out at once either way on the way west side but of course they would soon have to stop and wait for each other!

As for the works at Rochdale, from what I have I heard and it could well be rubbish, rather than building another bay they will run a new line along the currently disused island platform an have it as a loop available to use from either direction, I guess that might mean the current bay is not long for this earth.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As for the works at Rochdale, from what I have I heard and it could well be rubbish, rather than building another bay they will run a new line along the currently disused island platform an have it as a loop available to use from either direction, I guess that might mean the current bay is not long for this earth.

The demise of the Oldham Loop Line took away the main raison d'etre for the current Littleborough-facing bay platform.

 

[The Planner]

As for the works at Rochdale, from what I have I heard and it could well be rubbish, rather than building another bay they will run a new line along the currently disused island platform an have it as a loop available to use from either direction, I guess that might mean the current bay is not long for this earth.

Both options still on the table the last time I was told. It will be whatever is cheapest in the end though....

 

[L+Y]

Platform lengthening seems to be ongoing at Roby, I noticed today. What's the intention here: to be able to take an 8 car 319+319 set?

 

[The Planner]

No, pretty sure it is less than that.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

No, pretty sure it is less than that.

Definitely less than that. You are witnessing a new bit of platform being built at the east end to allow a bit at the west end to be taken out of use, for signalling and pedestrian flow reasons.

I've been "out" of the loop for a bit but last time I was "in" Roby was six car and Huyton was eight, but I know that these figures have been Value Managed in recent memory...
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Both options still on the table the last time I was told. It will be whatever is cheapest in the end though....

Quite. I don't think both options are still on the table, BTW.
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I am wondering what services will be terminating in the proposed bay platform at Rochdale station ?

All the services into Victoria from the west that a) would otherwise terminate at Vic, b) are diesel and c) can't turn back at Vic because NR need the platform space.

So that's Southports, etc.

 

[edwin_m]

A third through platform at Rochdale would be handy for overtaking in any future enhanced Calder Valley timetable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A third through platform at Rochdale would be handy for overtaking in any future enhanced Calder Valley timetable.

Well, everything is already to hand platform-wise in the now-unused part of the station to commence infrastructural and refurbishment works at Rochdale.

 

[edwin_m]

...but we still don't know if it is a loop or a bay!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For those forum members, like I, fortunate enough to be members of The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Society, the "LYR Focus Journal No. 75" which is being posted to members has its main page 4 to page 27 section dedicated to 175 years of trains at Rochdale.

 

[507 001]

Just spotted 390134 heading towards Liverpool through Eccles. I was following it on the M602.

So surreal seeing one under its own power along there!

 

[DJH1971]

Just spotted 390134 heading towards Liverpool through Eccles. I was following it on the M602.

So surreal seeing one under its own power along there!

Didn't get any pictures then?

 

[D1009]

According to RTT there has been a person hit by a train somewhere in the Warrington area, with trains diverted between Crewe and Golborne Jn via Manchester.

 

[The Planner]

Person was hit at platform 3 by a Virgin.

 

[507 001]

Didn't get any pictures then?

Nope I was driving.