Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[ed1971]

I know that this has been raised a while ago by another poster, but has anyone heard about what will happen to Liverpool LS to Blackpool North services once the Liverpool to Wigan electrification is completed in December?
Is it likely that it will continue using DMUs until the Preston to Blackpool North electrification is done, or will the service terminate at Preston using EMUs?
The continuation of a through Liverpool LS - Blackpool North DMU service would seem to be a waste of resources, when they are needed elsewhere.

 

[snowball]

I know that this has been raised a while ago by another poster, but has anyone heard about what will happen to Liverpool LS to Blackpool North services once the Liverpool to Wigan electrification is completed in December?
Is it likely that it will continue using DMUs until the Preston to Blackpool North electrification is done, or will the service terminate at Preston using EMUs?
The continuation of a through Liverpool LS - Blackpool North DMU service would seem to be a waste of resources, when they are needed elsewhere.

The Preston to Blackpool North electrification is due to be commissioned by May 2016, so I would have thought it odd to cut back the service for just 17 months.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I have concerns about Liverpool Scotland services. Are they going to join to the Manchester on route? If yes then is 4 cars enough into Manchester as currently it is not as 8 cars are sometimes used now. ......

Which services are 8 car?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Which services are 8 car?

Some 350 services have been doubled up. And even more according to the diagrams from mid February posted elsewhere.

 

[DJH1971]

Some 350 services have been doubled up. And even more according to the diagrams from mid February posted elsewhere.

I wonder when the rest of the 350/4's will come.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I wonder when the rest of the 350/4's will come.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=84485

 

[L+Y]

Off for a journey through Huyton/Roby shortly: I'll try to grab some pictures from the train window if there's much to be seen!

 

[snail]

Yes! The current setup is utter madness.

A lot of people fail to realise that it has been that way since the station was built. Platforms 3 & 4 carried the additional tracks towards Windsor Bridge (now goods lines). There have never been platforms on the Chat Moss lines.

The recent clearance work looks related to the electrification project, they have been casting and storing the concrete mast bases there.

 

[D1009]

IF Liverpool ever regains Scottish services, I suspect they will be combined with Manchester services north of Wigan or Preston, and quite possibly no more than 2 or 3 per day each way.

In other words exactly what was provided in the last days of steam!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Some 350 services have been doubled up. And even more according to the diagrams from mid February posted elsewhere.

Oh I see, the only 8-car 350 formation I have seen was on the 'first day', the other 4/5 services a week I have seen have only been 4 car.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Oh I see, the only 8-car 350 formation I have seen was on the 'first day', the other 4/5 services a week I have seen have only been 4 car.

Ah fair enough, well some of the next round of changes definitely include 8 car services.

 

[DJH1971]

Off for a journey through Huyton/Roby shortly: I'll try to grab some pictures from the train window if there's much to be seen!

See anything then?

 

[AE]

I travelled between Garswood and Wigan NW today. There are no structures at all between Springs Branch and Bryn Road bridge. As far as I could see there were no mast bases either.

That said, there are masts and associated cantilevers all the way between Bryn Road bridge and Garswood with the exception of a section between the M6 bridge and the Spindle Hillock bridge.

 

[Starmill]

Salford Central platform reinstatement is still on (though not approved formally), being financed by Salford Council last I heard.

Might we hope this could include raising the platform edge a bit!? The step up is crazy... It's strange how a station can be so nice on the concourse and so awful at platform level!

 

[DJH1971]

I travelled between Garswood and Wigan NW today. There are no structures at all between Springs Branch and Bryn Road bridge. As far as I could see there were no mast bases either.

That said, there are masts and associated cantilevers all the way between Bryn Road bridge and Garswood with the exception of a section between the M6 bridge and the Spindle Hillock bridge.

They better hurry up.

Only 11 months to go!

 

[Welshman]

A lot of people fail to realise that it has been that way since the station was built. Platforms 3 & 4 carried the additional tracks towards Windsor Bridge (now goods lines). There have never been platforms on the Chat Moss lines.

You're right - the L&Y from Manchester Victoria saw traffic potential at Salford whereas the LNWR from Exchange towards Eccles didn't.
And it's stayed that way ever since!

 

[L+Y]

In other words exactly what was provided in the last days of steam!

Two Liverpool Exchange-Glasgow trains ran in each direction per weekday before the severing of the Ormskirk line, with three on weekends, and a single additional Glasgow-Liverpool train on Fridays: headcode 1M29. So, yes!

Is there really much demand for direct Liverpool-Scotland trains?

See anything then?

Nothing particularly new. The sleepers do not yet reach Roby station from the Broad Green direction, and no rail was down. I was quite surprised by the fact that they seem to be quite central in the formation of the second pair of lines: will the embankment have to be extended northwards a little? There doesn't seem to be much room for the fourth track as far as I can see!

You're right - the L&Y from Manchester Victoria saw traffic potential at Salford whereas the LNWR from Exchange towards Eccles didn't.
And it's stayed that way ever since!

Would it be possible to run two tracks through the disused Salford Central platforms and then slew them over to connect to the Liverpool line? There seems to be space, but I'm no engineer!

 

[snail]

Would it be possible to run two tracks through the disused Salford Central platforms and then slew them over to connect to the Liverpool line? There seems to be space, but I'm no engineer!

Yes. This was incorporated in the Ordsall Chord plans but implementation would be part of Northern Hub. IIRC there would be 3 platforms created by opening both sides of the old platform 4.

 

[edwin_m]

You're right - the L&Y from Manchester Victoria saw traffic potential at Salford whereas the LNWR from Exchange towards Eccles didn't.
And it's stayed that way ever since!

Possibly because Exchange was nearer to Salford than Victoria is, so the LNWR decided it would adequately serve Salford as well. In fact most of Exchange station was in Salford although the main entrance was in Manchester. I don't know if Exchange had a subsidiary entrance at the western end to serve the area around what is now Salford Central.

 

[WatcherZero]

First bridge to be rebuilt between Victoria and Stalybridge, Henrietta Street in Ashton-under-Lyne, reopened on friday after 4.5 months closure. It was completely rebuilt for OHL clearance.

Final stone placing ceremony was attended by local primary school St Christophers RC who Network Rail had run a work site safety education program with, a school time capsule was also buried inside the bridge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I ask a question about a matter that was discussed on this website nearly two years ago (I think) that concerned a project on the former Manchester Exchange closed railway station site. It was a project that both Network Rail and Ask Property Developments were connected with and was called the Greengate Embankment Scheme at that time.

Living as I do many miles away from that area, can anyone on the thread give any information on this project.

 

[Dunc108]

Can I ask a question about a matter that was discussed on this website nearly two years ago (I think) that concerned a project on the former Manchester Exchange closed railway station site. It was a project that both Network Rail and Ask Property Developments were connected with and was called the Greengate Embankment Scheme at that time.

Living as I do many miles away from that area, can anyone on the thread give any information on this project.

Gosh I haven't heard anything about that for ages, one wonders if the recent turbulent economic times put the blocks on it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes. This was incorporated in the Ordsall Chord plans but implementation would be part of Northern Hub. IIRC there would be 3 platforms created by opening both sides of the old platform 4.

So they'd reinstate them like an Island platform instead of inserting tracks in the existing ones? I wonder if all platforms will be fully flexible for both routes respectively towards Ordsall & Salford Crescent to ensure maximum operational flexibility? - that'll become one busy through station when the Ordsall Chord is complete.

 

[Welshman]

Possibly because Exchange was nearer to Salford than Victoria is, so the LNWR decided it would adequately serve Salford as well. In fact most of Exchange station was in Salford although the main entrance was in Manchester. I don't know if Exchange had a subsidiary entrance at the western end to serve the area around what is now Salford Central.

I can't remember a subsidiary entrance at the western end, but you make a good point re most of Exchange being in Salford to start with.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah i know the project you were talking about Paul, and no I havent heard anything about it for some time either.

 

[snail]

In fact most of Exchange station was in Salford although the main entrance was in Manchester. I don't know if Exchange had a subsidiary entrance at the western end to serve the area around what is now Salford Central.

It was only the very eastern end and Cathedral Approach that were (just) in Manchester - the river Irwell is the dividing line. Salford Approach rises up from Trinity Church at the western end, 1/4 mile from Salford Central. Both roads are there today.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So they'd reinstate them like an Island platform instead of inserting tracks in the existing ones?

No, the existing disused platforms 3 & 4 will be reinstated, making 2/3 into be an island. A new face to the other side of 4 will make that an island also, with the new 5 serving one of the current Chat Moss lines (I think there is only one in the plans).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Are these plans online anywhere?

 

[Viscount702]

If it works here is the plan for Salford Central.

They are all online on the NR website on the Ordsall Curve under Application documents and planning Drawings

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...osed track level plan part 4 - section 02.pdf

 

[ianhr]

If it works here is the plan for Salford Central.

They are all online on the NR website on the Ordsall Curve under Application documents and planning Drawings

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...osed track level plan part 4 - section 02.pdf

Thanks for that. Ok, so Salford Central will have 5 platforms and will serve both the Liverpool (Chat Moss) lines and the Ordsall curve. The vegetation clearance between 3 & 4 is presumably the first sign of progress. There seem to be at least 4 schemes involved and I am not entirely clear where the boundaries lie between them and to what extent they overlap: NW electrification, Northern Hub, Ordsall Curve, GMPTE or local government funding for Salford Central expansion. They are obviously interrelated and the timing and staging of each affects the others.

 

[Viscount702]

Thanks for that. Ok, so Salford Central will have 5 platforms and will serve both the Liverpool (Chat Moss) lines and the Ordsall curve. The vegetation clearance between 3 & 4 is presumably the first sign of progress. There seem to be at least 4 schemes involved and I am not entirely clear where the boundaries lie between them and to what extent they overlap: NW electrification, Northern Hub, Ordsall Curve, GMPTE or local government funding for Salford Central expansion. They are obviously interrelated and the timing and staging of each affects the others.

At the moment and as stated above Salford Central will not get extra platforms under any of the current schemes. As part of building the Chord or as part of the Hub lines will be routed through the old platforms 3 and 4 and in a position south of platform 4. Platforms 3 and 4 will be reinstated and a new platform 5 w provided only if money can be found to fund it all. At the moment Salford CC is looking to find the money but that is all.

 

[snowball]

There seem to be at least 4 schemes involved and I am not entirely clear where the boundaries lie between them and to what extent they overlap: NW electrification, Northern Hub, Ordsall Curve, GMPTE or local government funding for Salford Central expansion. They are obviously interrelated and the timing and staging of each affects the others.

The Chord is part of the Hub so it's not really four separate schemes.