Northern Rail Franchise Extension 2014

[Andrew32]

Hi all

Does anyone know if northern have had their franchise extended yet?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I do not think it has been agreed yet. But it is expected to be.


Can i please ask that this thread does not turn into another Northern/Pacer Bashing thread.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the reason it's not been concluded quicker is in relation to the securing of additional electric carriages.

 

[Manchester77]

I wouldn't expect it to be agreed until a few days before the franchise is supposed to end as they did with the Greater Western and ICWC direct awards.

I guess when the contract has been finalised we'll finally see if our guessing about rolling stock cascades has been correct.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There are plenty of rumors flying about, it will be very interesting to see what happens. Also may depend on NR finishing phase 2 on time!

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't expect it to be agreed until a few days before the franchise is supposed to end as they did with the Greater Western and ICWC direct awards.

The SWT extension has just been agreed and the original expiry date was in 2015.

 

[WatcherZero]

Northern and TPE were pretty far down the order list for franchise agreements post fiasco.

 

[Andrew32]

When is the renewal date?

Seems to be alot of talk about a TPE/Northern merger in 2016

 

[Manchester77]

I thought that there was a release by rail north or the DfT saying that the two franchises wouldn't be merged?

And the original end date was April 14 iirc and the direct award will take it to May 16 or some date around then

 

[Class377/5]

FCC has an extension to April but the one to take it to September until the TSGN start still hasn't been agreed so Northern is down the pecking order (and linked to it with the 319s).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When is the renewal date?
Seems to be alot of talk about a TPE/Northern merger in 2016

Northern expires 31 March 2014.
TP expires 31 March 2015.
They are both due to be rebid competitively by 1 Apr 2016.
In the meantime they are in negotiation for direct contract awards (new franchises, not extensions).

Northern local authorities appear to have been told by DfT that the franchises will continue to be let separately.
This stifles a lot of the potential changes that an integrated franchise would have allowed.
So despite the promise of big changes, it seems that things will continue much as now.
The direct award in any case will only be up to 2016.

As others have said, the delay in awarding a contract for Northern is probably down to these arguments, plus how much extra rolling stock they will get, and the cost of it all.

 

[Class377/5]

Northern expires 31 March 2014.
TP expires 31 March 2015.
They are both due to be rebid competitively by 1 Apr 2016.
In the meantime they are in negotiation for direct contract awards (new franchises, not extensions).

Northern local authorities appear to have been told by DfT that the franchises will continue to be let separately.
This stifles a lot of the potential changes that an integrated franchise would have allowed.
So despite the promise of big changes, it seems that things will continue much as now.
The direct award in any case will only be up to 2016.

As others have said, the delay in awarding a contract for Northern is probably down to these arguments, plus how much extra rolling stock they will get, and the cost of it all.

Did Northern not get a extension like FCC and Southeastern to allow for discussions on the direct award?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Did Northern not get a extension like FCC and Southeastern to allow for discussions on the direct award?

Yes they've had that, it was Sept 2013 before.
They can't have more than one extension (on the same terms)

 

[Class377/5]

Yes they've had that, it was Sept 2013 before.
They can't have more than one extension (on the same terms)

Curious that both FCC and Northern's finish at the same time. Considering they are interlinked (and so was Southeastern's until the TSGN ITT showed us the linked parts) with the Transfer of the 319s we may see them both announced soon. They've been in talks over them for months.

 

[northwichcat]

Seems to be alot of talk about a TPE/Northern merger in 2016

In a recent statement Patrick McLoughlin hinted that there would still be two franchises not one super franchise and Rail North would have some involvement in setting the franchise terms but they wouldn't be the franchisor.

 

[Tramiel]

Today NR emailed its workers offering voluntary redundancy with full termination of those taking it to end employment 31st March.
I think this will be a deciding factor in renewing short term franchise as DfT are reducing subsidies , so savings are being sort on the staffing front to maintain profitability.

 

[northwichcat]

Today NR emailed its workers offering voluntary redundancy with full termination of those taking it to end employment 31st March.
I think this will be a deciding factor in renewing short term franchise as DfT are reducing subsidies , so savings are being sort on the staffing front to maintain profitability.

Is that for any specific type of role or for any specific base? I'd be very concerned if the number of crews based at Piccadilly decreases given how often services gets cancelled due to the lack of an available train crew. The 16:58 Stockport-Chester has been cancelled far too many times due to no available conductor.

It wasn't that long ago that Northern were expressing concerns about the new TPE vacancies potentially getting filled by Northern staff meaning they'd then have to train new people.

 

[Moonshot]

Is that for any specific type of role or for any specific base? I'd be very concerned if the number of crews based at Piccadilly decreases given how often services gets cancelled due to the lack of an available train crew. The 16:58 Stockport-Chester has been cancelled far too many times due to no available conductor.

It wasn't that long ago that Northern were expressing concerns about the new TPE vacancies potentially getting filled by Northern staff meaning they'd then have to train new people.

So what.......employees are perfectly entitled to better themselves elsewhere if they feel a new employer offers more than what they are getting previous

 

[Tramiel]

Is that for any specific type of role or for any specific base? I'd be very concerned if the number of crews based at Piccadilly decreases given how often services gets cancelled due to the lack of an available train crew. The 16:58 Stockport-Chester has been cancelled far too many times due to no available conductor.

It wasn't that long ago that Northern were expressing concerns about the new TPE vacancies potentially getting filled by Northern staff meaning they'd then have to train new people.

I dont think train crew or frontline staff or any staffing that affects performance would be granted the redundancy.

 

[Moonshot]

I dont think train crew or frontline staff or any staffing that affects performance would be granted the redundancy.

What tends to happen when this sort of offer is made is that employees who are only a few years away from retirement and have clocked up a good number of years employment tend to take these offers up.....in effect they get paid garden leave between taking redundancy and their official retirement date.

When I worked for Network Rail , there was a round of voluntary redundancies amongst the maintainace staff........as per usual the Unions were up in arms about it, but failed to disclose the very fact I made above as virtually all those who took the offer up were in that boat!!

 

[Class 170101]

I thought that there was a release by rail north or the DfT saying that the two franchises wouldn't be merged?

And the original end date was April 14 iirc and the direct award will take it to May 16 or some date around then

The merger plan I believe is dead however you would think some re-drawing of the boundaries to make both franchises more efficient post electrification would be needed.

 

[dannypye9999]

Northern do NOT deserve this franchise.


SIMPLE REASONS:

Dirty Smelly Toilets
Passengers on the route (Stoke-Manchester) always have to wait about one minute for the train doors to open in the station (doesn't happen on Birminghams cross city, same trains)
Always small trains on the busiest routes, never anything extra on football days to help with the overcrowding, stupid policy of never running two 323 units coupled together during peak times.
Never buy any new trains.
Same timetable and frequencys since 1980's
Crackly and a very bad PA system on all of their trains.
Boring livery and logo
Still using diesel DMU trains from the 70's
Failing to buck up their ideas and make priorities

 

[transmanche]

Passengers on the route (Stoke-Manchester) always have to wait about one minute for the train doors to open in the station

Really? Every time? Have you reported this problem to Northern?

stupid policy of never running two 323 units coupled together during peak times.

And where would these extra 323s be? Stored in a secret cave somewhere?

Never buy any new trains.

TOCs don't buy trains - they lease them. And Northern can pretty much only lease what the DfT lets them.

Same timetable and frequencys since 1980's

Well that's not true.

Boring livery and logo

Seriously?

Still using diesel DMU trains from the 70's

Also not true. Northern does not have any trains dating from the 1970s.

 

[Manchester77]

SIMPLE REASONS:
Dirty Smelly Toilets

Who makes the toilets dirty, who craps on the floor and p!sses on the toilet seat. I'm pretty sure that it's not the cleaners.

Passengers on the route (Stoke-Manchester) always have to wait about one minute for the train doors to open in the station (doesn't happen on Birminghams cross city, same trains)

Again the guard opens the doors within seconds of the train arriving for me, dwell times seem to be quite low. And on 323 operated lines it's been the same for me.

Failing to buck up their ideas and make priorities

What does that even mean, they have to make do with what they have. In fact if they strictly keep to the terms of the no growth contract then they're wouldn't have leased any extra trains and the fleet size would be exactly the same as it was when the inherited the franchise wouldn't it?

I think the fact that this user used the fact that the livery was boring as a reason for Northern being stripped of the franchise sums up all we need to know about their 'arguments'

 

[dannypye9999]

Really? Every time? Have you reported this problem to Northern?
And where would these extra 323s be? Stored in a secret cave somewhere?

.

Let me guess..............money. Yes there are trains right there in the secret cave. How is it LM and TPE managed to find them and northern haven't?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Really? Every
Also not true. Northern does not have any trains dating from the 1970s.

What are them old bangers that run the Marple line?

 

[455driver]

Let me guess..............money. Yes there are trains right there in the secret cave. How is it LM and TPE managed to find them and northern haven't?

they didnt find them, they were awarded them as part of their franchise because they were let on a growth basis!
The Northern franchise was let on a no growth basis, unfortunately the passengers had other ideas and a lot more of them are travelling, because the franchise is no growth Northern are not able to get any more trains from the DaFT!

I am not certain but I do believe I have read that on here once or twice in the past!:roll:

 

[dannypye9999]

Who makes the toilets dirty, who craps on the floor and p!sses on the toilet seat. I'm pretty sure that it's not the cleaners.

Really they have cleaners?

 

[455driver]

Really they have cleaners?

Yawn! :roll::roll:

 

[transmanche]

What are them old bangers that run the Marple line?

If they're Pacers, then they date from 1985-1987. Lots of trains on the network are older than them.

 

[Moonshot]

Northern do NOT deserve this franchise.


SIMPLE REASONS:

Dirty Smelly Toilets
Passengers on the route (Stoke-Manchester) always have to wait about one minute for the train doors to open in the station (doesn't happen on Birminghams cross city, same trains)
Always small trains on the busiest routes, never anything extra on football days to help with the overcrowding, stupid policy of never running two 323 units coupled together during peak times.
Never buy any new trains.
Same timetable and frequencys since 1980's
Crackly and a very bad PA system on all of their trains.
Boring livery and logo
Still using diesel DMU trains from the 70's
Failing to buck up their ideas and make priorities

Amazingly intelligent post ....