Weather related disruption - Christmas 2013 and New Year 2014

[SF-02]

I believe there were at least 15 separate fallen tree incidents on the SE network yesterday morning, along with other obstructions and at least one landslide. It seemed like less damage this time, but I think that was because no trains were running at the time so there was no real need to inform people of where or what the incidents were.

Oh right I didn't see any mention of that on twitter or any other sources. Any idea where they occurred? Even with that, it is similar to events on other TOC's around London that didn't take until midday to begin running. I'm wondering if Network Rail have less staff on southeastern's patch to check and thus it is taking longer.

 

[VauxhallandI]

So I realise there has been a few updates from my journey yesterday but I wanted to post a few observations.

The staff at GLC were great and did what they could to help and keep people informed however I feel they as we wee left in the dark somewhat.

At 14:50 I was informed the 14:40 was running 20 mins late and that my 15:40 was doing the same.

I returned to my hotel to collected my girlfriend and our cases.

Arriving back at GLC at 15:00 everything was fine however at 15:30 we wee told that our train had now been cancelled.

1) why does the train disappear somewhere in North Lanarkshire?

I then stood from 15:30 till 18:10 at the barrier of platform 1 in the knowledge that my reservations were now history.

2) I then received two stories as to if my reservation could be moved to the next train. After queuing up at the ticket centre, Mr Tornfaced informed me I couldn't.

3) there was also conflicting evidence as to whether reservations stood and if the train would be declassified.

Successfully on the road at 18:30 both seated in First and warming my tired wet feet. No sign of a drink as all catering shut, I saw the supplies being loaded but there was no one to sell or serve it.

The train manager estimated our time of arrival at EUS as 22:35 for an hour or so when I had it down as an hour later, he eventually adjusted to my reckoning, maybe it is the time difference once over the border.

Once the train stopped at Preston the TM suddenly announced the train was terminating there. Cue a mass decamp and search for staff.

There was one member of Virgin staff.

4) she couldn't tell us what platform to be on

5) she couldn't tell us if any transport would be laid on to get us home at EUS. She said to speak to someone at EUS, this does not settle the customers worries.

We are then moved from platform 6 to 4. Then moved from 4 to 6; there is a subsequent move back to the stairs only to move back. This was a one hour wait.

The next service arrived already reasonably full so the was the panic of getting old folk, dogs and bags on. Managed to get a seat; the on board staff were great and did their best to raise spirits and we got a coffee and a cold drink.

We were informed around MKC that there would be arrangements for our inward travel. I over heard stories of hassle over seat reservations further down the train.

So we trundled in to EUS to the sound of many morons hitting the emergency toilet button and the galley door constantly opening and shutting in a world of its own next to us.

On arrival at EUS there was a long queue already for taxis. It came from platform 2 up the ramp along the concourse to the top of platform 6.

After queuing for sometime I enquired whether or not I could just organise my own taxi and charge it back with a receipt. The lady looked at me as if I was an alien and stated that this wouldn't be a solution and that Virgin may not pay me back.

I tweeted Virgin and they said it would be fine, I was approaching the top of the ramp by then so decided to stick to the queue.

6) why the conflicting argument? Surely we this would be a logical solution to help reduce the queue and get everyone including staff home quicker?

There were plenty of cabs down the but the loading process was painfully slow as they tried to matchmaker for cabs to save money.

When I got to the front after witnessing some near flash points over queue jumping and the usual I've got a child so I get to be more important than you.
The chap tried to match me up with anyone going North West (I live in Cheshunt)! He thought someone in Kensal Green would be apt, I explained to hi this wasn't a flyer.

We arrived home at 2:45am.

Now I appreciate the weather and the standing at GLC for three hours is life but the lack of communication from Virgin caused the majority of problems from then on in, you have to better in this day and age.

This may sound strange to some but we do feel our good Xmas memories have been lost due to the confusion and worry of being in the dark as to what was going on and if we were going to a make it home. We were extremely tired with several large bags running about around platforms etc. It was pretty stressful.

7) my girlfriend doesn't want any recompense to be in rail vouchers and to be frank I can see whee she is coming from. I paid in cash in all other refund situations I have been in I receive the funds in the same medium I gave them.

I have a season ticked and next year we will either stay here or fly or even drive. I have no use of the vouchers.

 

[Butts]

So I realise there has been a few updates from my journey yesterday but I wanted to post a few observations.

The staff at GLC were great and did what they could to help and keep people informed however I feel they as we wee left in the dark somewhat.

At 14:50 I was informed the 14:40 was running 20 mins late and that my 15:40 was doing the same.

I returned to my hotel to collected my girlfriend and our cases.

Arriving back at GLC at 15:00 everything was fine however at 15:30 we wee told that our train had now been cancelled.

1) why does the train disappear somewhere in North Lanarkshire?

I then stood from 15:30 till 18:10 at the barrier of platform 1 in the knowledge that my reservations were now history.

2) I then received two stories as to if my reservation could be moved to the next train. After queuing up at the ticket centre, Mr Tornfaced informed me I couldn't.

3) there was also conflicting evidence as to whether reservations stood and if the train would be declassified.

Successfully on the road at 18:30 both seated in First and warming my tired wet feet. No sign of a drink as all catering shut, I saw the supplies being loaded but there was no one to sell or serve it.

The train manager estimated our time of arrival at EUS as 22:35 for an hour or so when I had it down as an hour later, he eventually adjusted to my reckoning, maybe it is the time difference once over the border.

Once the train stopped at Preston the TM suddenly announced the train was terminating there. Cue a mass decamp and search for staff.

There was one member of Virgin staff.

4) she couldn't tell us what platform to be on

5) she couldn't tell us if any transport would be laid on to get us home at EUS. She said to speak to someone at EUS, this does not settle the customers worries.

We are then moved from platform 6 to 4. Then moved from 4 to 6; there is a subsequent move back to the stairs only to move back. This was a one hour wait.

The next service arrived already reasonably full so the was the panic of getting old folk, dogs and bags on. Managed to get a seat; the on board staff were great and did their best to raise spirits and we got a coffee and a cold drink.

We were informed around MKC that there would be arrangements for our inward travel. I over heard stories of hassle over seat reservations further down the train.

So we trundled in to EUS to the sound of many morons hitting the emergency toilet button and the galley door constantly opening and shutting in a world of its own next to us.

On arrival at EUS there was a long queue already for taxis. It came from platform 2 up the ramp along the concourse to the top of platform 6.

After queuing for sometime I enquired whether or not I could just organise my own taxi and charge it back with a receipt. The lady looked at me as if I was an alien and stated that this wouldn't be a solution and that Virgin may not pay me back.

I tweeted Virgin and they said it would be fine, I was approaching the top of the ramp by then so decided to stick to the queue.

6) why the conflicting argument? Surely we this would be a logical solution to help reduce the queue and get everyone including staff home quicker?

There were plenty of cabs down the but the loading process was painfully slow as they tried to matchmaker for cabs to save money.

When I got to the front after witnessing some near flash points over queue jumping and the usual I've got a child so I get to be more important than you.
The chap tried to match me up with anyone going North West (I live in Cheshunt)! He thought someone in Kensal Green would be apt, I explained to hi this wasn't a flyer.

We arrived home at 2:45am.

Now I appreciate the weather and the standing at GLC for three hours is life but the lack of communication from Virgin caused the majority of problems from then on in, you have to better in this day and age.

This may sound strange to some but we do feel our good Xmas memories have been lost due to the confusion and worry of being in the dark as to what was going on and if we were going to a make it home. We were extremely tired with several large bags running about around platforms etc. It was pretty stressful.

7) my girlfriend doesn't want any recompense to be in rail vouchers and to be frank I can see whee she is coming from. I paid in cash in all other refund situations I have been in I receive the funds in the same medium I gave them.

I have a season ticked and next year we will either stay here or fly or even drive. I have no use of the vouchers.

I flew from Birmingham to Edinburgh yesterday - 45 Minutes - it's a no-brainer

There was a lot of wind as I drove over The FR bridge but the aircraft was unaffected in the earlier flight.

 

[SF-02]

I've just been looking at weather forecasts for next week and looking pretty bad. On Sunday night into Monday there will be heavy rain in the south. Winds could be up to 60 mph. Based upon recent late starts that could impact upon many people's morning commute.

There's further heavy rain possible on Tuesday then another deep low pressure with wind and rain coming on Wednesday. That could run into Thursday. That could potentially mean 3 or even more days with no morning service if last week is a guide, though of course all liable to change the further away it is.

It could be awful for commuters and if it happens lead to some future changes in how events are handled, as the press & politicians will start asking a lot of tough questions about regular 10am or mid-day starts.

 

[DVD]

Southeastern didn't run much at all until 12pm and only a smattering of services since. The only London TOC to implement that I think. Even then services after have been cancelled due to driver shortages - an increasing occurrence in recent weeks with weather issues or not. This is not ideal when it is on the Victoria to Dartford like it was today when that service only has a train every 30 minutes.

What were the specific issues to justify this? I heard little about any trees down on lines. Winds were not too strong and the rain was less than forecast - around 10 mm and that became clear before midnight last night from the weather radars. Did it take 7 hours after the normal start of services (5am) to check routes? Particularly metro services. I understand longer distance services may have had more to contend with.

With more heavy rain and winds coming on Sunday night and Monday morning, along with more on Wednesday and Thursday it will be interesting to see if there are anymore midday starts.

Southeastern announced their decision to run no services before midday on their website on the afternoon of Boxing Day. No other TOC did that, and most TOCs in the south east managed to run a reasonable level of service yesterday morning. My own observations from home in Sidcup suggest that there was minimal storm damage on Thursday night / Friday morning. It was intensely irritating to find that Southeastern seem to have made a unilateral decision the day before not to even attempt to run any services on any lines before midday (with the exception of HS1). Neither SW Trains nor Southern did this. Their twitter feeds and website implied that they were waiting for Network Rail to give the go-ahead to run any services and that it was not possible for Network Rail to check the tracks until daylight. I'm afraid I don't believe this and suspect that Southeastern simply thought "it's the day after Boxing Day, no-one will be too bothered if we just abandon any attempt to run services in the morning". In fact many of us rely on Southeastern and needed to get to work. I fully appreciate the need for safety first and the risks of landslips, trains striking fallen trees etc, but it was clear during Thursday night that the storm was nothing like that of Monday night and consequently other TOCs did not abandon any attempt to run trains as Southeastern did.

I would be interested to know from anyone who works for Southeastern and/or Network Rail precisely what instructions were given to Southeastern staff and whether Network Rail advised Southeastern to close down for the whole morning. I suspect that staff/drivers were told not to bother to come to work until late morning, but hope that I am wrong as that would be an appalling way to treat its customers.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I've just been looking at weather forecasts for next week and looking pretty bad. On Sunday night into Monday there will be heavy rain in the south. Winds could be up to 60 mph. Based upon recent late starts that could impact upon many people's morning commute.

There's further heavy rain possible on Tuesday then another deep low pressure with wind and rain coming on Wednesday. That could run into Thursday. That could potentially mean 3 or even more days with no morning service if last week is a guide, though of course all liable to change the further away it is.

It could be awful for commuters and if it happens lead to some future changes in how events are handled, as the press & politicians will start asking a lot of tough questions about regular 10am or mid-day starts.

I find the MP's in the GA region don't give a monkees

 

[Saint66]

I've just been looking at weather forecasts for next week and looking pretty bad. On Sunday night into Monday there will be heavy rain in the south. Winds could be up to 60 mph. Based upon recent late starts that could impact upon many people's morning commute.

There's further heavy rain possible on Tuesday then another deep low pressure with wind and rain coming on Wednesday. That could run into Thursday. That could potentially mean 3 or even more days with no morning service if last week is a guide, though of course all liable to change the further away it is.

It could be awful for commuters and if it happens lead to some future changes in how events are handled, as the press & politicians will start asking a lot of tough questions about regular 10am or mid-day starts.

At the moment, the rain next week will be the major problem for TOC's and NR, as there is already a lot of lines that have been overwhelmed with rain and will struggle with too much more... There's still some question over the winds next week.

 

[ModernRailways]

I would be interested to know from anyone who works for Southeastern and/or Network Rail precisely what instructions were given to Southeastern staff and whether Network Rail advised Southeastern to close down for the whole morning. I suspect that staff/drivers were told not to bother to come to work until late morning, but hope that I am wrong as that would be an appalling way to treat its customers.

From what I've read on Facebook - don't take it as fact - Network Rail wanted it so they could do emergency maintenance in some areas affected to allow for a full flow of trains. And SouthEastern were also worried staff wouldn't make it into work on time in the morning due to the flooding and so told staff that they had to leave to ensure they got to work for 11am.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I have a season ticked and next year we will either stay here or fly or even drive. I have no use of the vouchers.

If you have a season ticket why not use the vouchers towards the cost of its replacement?

 

[JonathanH]

At 14:50 I was informed the 14:40 was running 20 mins late and that my 15:40 was doing the same.

I returned to my hotel to collected my girlfriend and our cases.

Arriving back at GLC at 15:00 everything was fine however at 15:30 we wee told that our train had now been cancelled.

1) why does the train disappear somewhere in North Lanarkshire?

It looks like they used the train they expected to be the 1540 from Glasgow Central for the 1600 from Glasgow Central via Birmingham instead.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

Normally, 1S51 (1028 EUS to GLC) would work 1M16 (1540 GLC to EUS). 1S51 terminated at Preston but was restarted from Carlisle as 1Z51. However, 9S55 (0943 EUS to GLC) was nowhere near Glasgow so they used the stock for 1M16 to run 9M59 (1600 GLC to EUS).

 

[VauxhallandI]

It looks like they used the train they expected to be the 1540 from Glasgow Central for the 1600 from Glasgow Central via Birmingham instead.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

Normally, 1S51 (1028 EUS to GLC) would work 1M16 (1540 GLC to EUS). 1S51 terminated at Preston but was restarted from Carlisle as 1Z51. However, 9S55 (0943 EUS to GLC) was nowhere near Glasgow so they used the stock for 1M16 to run 9M59 (1600 GLC to EUS).

I saw the 16:00 it was a five car Voyager stopping at the kitchen sink amoungst others!

When did it get to EUS?

 

[A-driver]

I would be interested to know from anyone who works for Southeastern and/or Network Rail precisely what instructions were given to Southeastern staff and whether Network Rail advised Southeastern to close down for the whole morning. I suspect that staff/drivers were told not to bother to come to work until late morning, but hope that I am wrong as that would be an appalling way to treat its customers.

You suspect wrong. Staff, including drivers, arnt paid unless they can put pen to paper and sign on so anyone not in is likely to not be paid or booked on late.

I know that southeastern used to allow you to book on at a local station if you couldn't get to your actual depot but don't know if this is still allowed.

At FCC when they started services late Tuesday morning (Xmas eve) we were booked taxis in if we couldn't get in so we were there for our booking on times so that they had drivers about to run proving trains and be ready to start up the service.

Also, why would telling staff not to come in until later be 'an appalling way to treat customers'?

 

[infobleep]

South West trains were struggling to run trains through Guildford on time today. Delays of 20+ minutes possible. Are they running ECS passed the affected area near Liss?

Interestingly Worploesden got 2 services an hour. That's normally unheard of outside peak rush hour.

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[Baxenden Bank]

7) my girlfriend doesn't want any recompense to be in rail vouchers and to be frank I can see whee she is coming from. I paid in cash in all other refund situations I have been in I receive the funds in the same medium I gave them.

I have a season ticked and next year we will either stay here or fly or even drive. I have no use of the vouchers.

You can request delay repay as a cheque instead of travel vouchers.

 

[JonathanH]

I saw the 16:00 it was a five car Voyager stopping at the kitchen sink amoungst others!

When did it get to EUS?

It terminated at Milton Keynes at 2223. It is not clear what would have happened to passengers at that point.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It terminated at Milton Keynes at 2223. It is not clear what would have happened to passengers at that point.

Ah so they probably had to wait for the one I was on.

It was a difficult judgement call to make at GLC as they offered me to go on that service.

 

[embers25]

South West trains were struggling to run trains through Guildford on time today. Delays of 20+ minutes possible. Are they running ECS passed the affected area near Liss?

Interestingly Worploesden got 2 services an hour. That's normally unheard of outside peak rush hour.

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Today not much better than yesterday. All delays put down both days pretty much to staff being displaced by the disruption. I understand that yesterday but surely today they could have got their act together a bit better. All in all very poor again. Trains to Guildford very busy and passengers not impressed. I take the point from SWT passenger about platform lengths meaning they can't join the 59 and 03 trains but surely if nothing else run them later so they at least connect with the boats arriving at 09 as it won't delay them further. Then again, according to RTT, almost no diverted trains ran today either way its pretty academic. Given almost none did seem to run surely that should have left plenty of staff for the Haslemere shuttles. All in all a VERY poor show these past 2 days.

 

[island]

You can request delay repay as a cheque instead of travel vouchers.

You can also request it in Mongolian togrogs, chew-its, and Jaffa cakes, but doesn't mean you'll get it that way

Southern-issued RTVs can be exchanged for cash at a Southern booking office though.

 

[VauxhallandI]

You can also request it in Mongolian togrogs, chew-its, and Jaffa cakes, but doesn't mean you'll get it that way

Southern-issued RTVs can be exchanged for cash at a Southern booking office though.

Oh well it's Virgin! This is as confusing as yesterday

 

[Baxenden Bank]

You can also request it in Mongolian togrogs, chew-its, and Jaffa cakes, but doesn't mean you'll get it that way

Southern-issued RTVs can be exchanged for cash at a Southern booking office though.

OK, you have the right to receive it as a cheque instead of a rail travel voucher, if you so request it. :roll:

You do not have the right to receive it in mongolian togrogs.

 

[455driver]

Today not much better than yesterday. All delays put down both days pretty much to staff being displaced by the disruption. I understand that yesterday but surely today they could have got their act together a bit better. All in all very poor again. Trains to Guildford very busy and passengers not impressed. I take the point from SWT passenger about platform lengths meaning they can't join the 59 and 03 trains but surely if nothing else run them later so they at least connect with the boats arriving at 09 as it won't delay them further. Then again, according to RTT, almost no diverted trains ran today either way its pretty academic. Given almost none did seem to run surely that should have left plenty of staff for the Haslemere shuttles. All in all a VERY poor show these past 2 days.

Maybe you ought to ring SWT up and offer your services, you do seem to have all the answers!

Or do you just continually moan without having a clue what is actually happening behind the scenes so they can run what they can in times af severe disruption!:roll:

 

[island]

OK, you have the right to receive it as a cheque instead of a rail travel voucher, if you so request it. :roll:

Source please?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Source please?

The last time I claimed any delay repay, I'm sure there was a tick box on the form for payment by cheque instead of RTV. Then again I must be charmed as I haven't had any delays to claim against for a while (OP touches wood quickly) - even this week. It was however a bit windy 'riding the witch' back down the M66 on Friday.

And no, I can't be bothered looking up every TOC website in the land to find their delay repay form to find out which one it was, whether they have a common policy and then compare these the the NRCOC, franchise agreements and DfT guidance.

I'm presently more concerned with why my Tesco till receipt says 'Fresh Milk, £1' - what other sort of milk do they sell?

 

[455driver]

I'm presently more concerned with why my Tesco till receipt says 'Fresh Milk, £1' - what other sort of milk do they sell?

Condensed, powdered!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Condensed, powdered!

Yuck!

 

[DVD]

You suspect wrong. Staff, including drivers, arnt paid unless they can put pen to paper and sign on so anyone not in is likely to not be paid or booked on late.

I know that southeastern used to allow you to book on at a local station if you couldn't get to your actual depot but don't know if this is still allowed.

At FCC when they started services late Tuesday morning (Xmas eve) we were booked taxis in if we couldn't get in so we were there for our booking on times so that they had drivers about to run proving trains and be ready to start up the service.

Also, why would telling staff not to come in until later be 'an appalling way to treat customers'?

Thanks for the info. I still maintain that for a TOC to decide and announce 12 hours before poor weather conditions actually happen that they are not going to attempt to run any services for the first 7 hours of the following day, on the basis of a weather forecast which predicted some rain and high winds (mainly outside the SE) is very poor customer service. Had a hurricane been predicted that would be different. I accept that cancelling services for a defined period in advance provides certainty to passengers, but (a) no other TOC acted in this way yesterday (b) Friday was a normal working day for many people (c) the forecasts - which I followed closely - did not predict such extreme weather as occurred earlier in the week (d) I have not so far seen any evidence of damage caused to Southeastern lines as a direct result of the Thursday night bad weather, Cancelling services up to perhaps 9am may have been advisable. Cancelling all services on all lines in advance is poor customer service.

 

[mrmatt]

Thanks for the info. I still maintain that for a TOC to decide and announce 12 hours before poor weather conditions actually happen that they are not going to attempt to run any services for the first 7 hours of the following day, on the basis of a weather forecast which predicted some rain and high winds (mainly outside the SE) is very poor customer service. Had a hurricane been predicted that would be different. I accept that cancelling services for a defined period in advance provides certainty to passengers, but (a) no other TOC acted in this way yesterday (b) Friday was a normal working day for many people (c) the forecasts - which I followed closely - did not predict such extreme weather as occurred earlier in the week (d) I have not so far seen any evidence of damage caused to Southeastern lines as a direct result of the Thursday night bad weather, Cancelling services up to perhaps 9am may have been advisable. Cancelling all services on all lines in advance is poor customer service.

You are assuming the decision was made by SE and not NR. Other posts earlier suggest this may not have been the case. If the people who operate the signals say no you're not going to go anywhere! If NR did tell SE not to run anything as they needed possession then in fact it is very good customer service.

I'm not saying that is 100% what happened but we can't go round randomly accusing companies of deciding to be (paraphrased) lazy without any evidence to back it up.

 

[infobleep]

Of course of companies don't communicate what actually happened, passengers have nothing to go on.

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[embers25]

Maybe to ring SWT up and offer your services, you do seem to have all the answers!

Or do you just continually moan without having a clue what is actually happening behind the scenes so they can run what they can in times af severe disruption!:roll:

The embankment is only severe dusruption to one line (yes I know services/crews interwork) yet most of SWT longer distance is late.Also yesterday they gave up completely and cancelled all diverted trains.Despite this they couldn't even run the others on time.The others being the planned trains minus one each way an hour so not too challenging as that meant much lower service than normal. also they failed to keep passengers informed at all about how late trains would be just announcing and displaying incorrect times and invisible trains just got later and later with no explanation until after they arrived. Just like it was last year during the snow.They claim to have worked hard to provide more accurate info during disruption but there is very little evidence of that from my experience the past two days.Hopefully today will be better given this "work going on behind the scenes".

 

[455driver]

Which crews that normally work the direct dont sign via Eastleigh?
Of the remaining depots how many have links which dont sign via Eastleigh?

Okay SWT are not doing well at the moment but all you do is moan about everything but you never come up with a viable solution do you, any berk can do that! :roll: