Weather related disruption - Christmas 2013 and New Year 2014

[SF-02]

Southeastern didn't run much at all until 12pm and only a smattering of services since. The only London TOC to implement that I think. Even then services after have been cancelled due to driver shortages - an increasing occurrence in recent weeks with weather issues or not. This is not ideal when it is on the Victoria to Dartford like it was today when that service only has a train every 30 minutes.

What were the specific issues to justify this? I heard little about any trees down on lines. Winds were not too strong and the rain was less than forecast - around 10 mm and that became clear before midnight last night from the weather radars. Did it take 7 hours after the normal start of services (5am) to check routes? Particularly metro services. I understand longer distance services may have had more to contend with.

With more heavy rain and winds coming on Sunday night and Monday morning, along with more on Wednesday and Thursday it will be interesting to see if there are anymore midday starts.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I'd say "hang in there," but I've just noticed that your train appears as "cancelled" after Preston, which it apparently left an hour ago!

Any information on what's happening? I'm an hour or so behind you on the 18:40 ex GLC, which departed around 19:10, and has just this minute arrived into Preston, where rather a number of disgruntled passengers have boarded. I literally had this carriage to myself when departing GLC, and it's now full.

Ha ah, I think I am in your carriage! K?

Yes they decamped us and then had little information or guidance apart from moving us from platform to platform. I guess to keep us motivated.

 

[sarahj]

Well according to one passenger today, the Southern diversions via East Grinstead are a Scientology plot, all set up by a Scientology bigwig at the DOT. :roll: It seems some conspiracy sites are aledging this.

(for those that dont know, The UK HQ of Scientology is just outside East Grinstead)

Meanwhile in the real world: Seemed ok, but a 6 min turnaround at Three Bridges was just not enough, even for the driver to walk from one end to the other.
Most pointless trains running at the mo:
Brighton-Littlehampton-Horsham-Three Bridges to connect into Horsham to London via Dorking services DOH!!!!

 

[andystock22]

I was tried to get the 9:58 from Preston to Euston today, 9:13 was cancelled. Waited till around 11:15 with 4 train loads of passengers waiting on platform 4. The information at Preston was dreadful and at 11:10 the PIS changed to the 11:10 Man Airport train. Complete concussion on platform 4. Seeing the huge number of passengers waiting for a London train decided to get the Man Airport train, arrived into man picc 10 mins late and boarded the 12:35 which had a number of empty seats after stoke. Got into Euston at around 14:45, around 2 hours and 30 mins late.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I was tried to get the 9:58 from Preston to Euston today, 9:13 was cancelled. Waited till around 11:15 with 4 train loads of passengers waiting on platform 4. The information at Preston was dreadful and at 11:10 the PIS changed to the 11:10 Man Airport train. Complete concussion on platform 4. Seeing the huge number of passengers waiting for a London train decided to get the Man Airport train, arrived into man picc 10 mins late and boarded the 12:35 which had a number of empty seats after stoke. Got into Euston at around 14:45, around 2 hours and 30 mins late.

They may have left us high and dry on the platforms but I feel sorry for the beating you took

 

[Crossover]

It would seem the 1440 from Glasgow was the place not to be today

Over 100 mins stopped at Bletchley

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81692/2013/12/27/advanced

 

[Chrisgr31]

What amazes me given the only way from the south coast seems to london by train seems to be via southampton or hastings; given the lives seem to be cut arround liphook, mole valley and gatwick all at the same time is:-

Is the Hastings line open at present? Have they fixed the landslip they had on it at Wadhurst?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For those asking for the images of the landslips in the South.

Thanks for the pics, the Redhill one looks to be the less serious of the lot, but I guess that depends how stable the rest of the banking there is. It looks particularly steep.

 

[455refurb]

What is certainly clear is that the last few days have highlighted the need for a complete root & branch review of the way information is disseminated to passengers by the TOC's & the NRE tools in times of disruption. At the time of writing, the Journey Planner is still showing Victoria - Gatwick via Sutton & Horsham trains as planned to run when obviously we know they are not. This is simply not acceptable, many passengers will use the Journey Planner to check the service then turn up to find those trains showing as cancelled.

I know there's an issue with loading timetable data. But how about something like a general 'disruption' flag the TOC's could set in the data feed to cause the planner / smartphone app to show a message against all services like, "This route is experiencing severe disruption and this train may not run, please check with the Train Operator before starting your journey" might be helpful.

The TOC's do not help themselves. They can't help the weather, what they can do is get their houses in order when it comes to information provision.

For those asking for the images of the landslips in the South.

Yes thanks for the pics.

 

[embers25]

Sorry meant the updated/amended live departure boards and online journey planners. Or also the totally useless SWT Journey Check which for example has Ports Hbr 2003, Fareham 2030 (should be 2036 according to the departure boards there), Winchester 2107 (all fine) and then Woking 2116 (High Speed 3 perhaps!)!!! Really helpful, not! The other way is the same.

Today realtimetrains has the correct times but Woking station and live deps still has it wrong so, for example, the 0816 is showing due 0850 when its not 0816 now in the first place. Which just leaves people waiting in the cold again.Why not just run them together to Eastleigh and split there rather than the fast passing the slow there...again not very sensible.Also many trains started late for some reason again.Announcements better today tho and guard did at least announce Farnboro stop allbeit as the doors were closing.

 

[TheJRB]

Southeastern didn't run much at all until 12pm and only a smattering of services since. The only London TOC to implement that I think. Even then services after have been cancelled due to driver shortages - an increasing occurrence in recent weeks with weather issues or not. This is not ideal when it is on the Victoria to Dartford like it was today when that service only has a train every 30 minutes.

What were the specific issues to justify this? I heard little about any trees down on lines. Winds were not too strong and the rain was less than forecast - around 10 mm and that became clear before midnight last night from the weather radars. Did it take 7 hours after the normal start of services (5am) to check routes? Particularly metro services. I understand longer distance services may have had more to contend with.

With more heavy rain and winds coming on Sunday night and Monday morning, along with more on Wednesday and Thursday it will be interesting to see if there are anymore midday starts.

Southeastern were saying that lines would not open until Network Rail gave the all clear that the line was safe. Whether that was something Southeastern asked of Network Rail to be cautious or whether Network Rail stipulated no service until checks, I don't know. HS1 started at the normal time (05:43 from Ashford) and was running as normal all day on the high speed part (only as far as Ashford).

I must say I did find it funny to read that, apart from HS1, the only line running yesterday morning through Ashford was the Marshlink to Hastings, which just happens to be the most rural of the lot!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The landslip at Borough Green & Wrotham has now been sorted out and trains are running all the way through on the Maidstone East line now. Good work Network Rail!

 

[CallySleeper]

Just (about 10.30) seen the up Highland sleeper fly past Cannock Chase... RTT says it spent three and a half hours in Carlisle. What happened to the poor baby?!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The railway now is a very different place to what it was.
I suggest you stop living in history and realise that the world has moved on (a long way)

Is it a better or worse place?

Two christmases running with severe disruption, much uncertainty for travellers about whether they will make it to their destination. Advice not to travel may be sensible but it is not practical at a special time of year.

Many of these travellers will be occaisional rail users. How many of these customers will simply walk away from the railway and travel by car instead next year?

You cannot treat your customers like this unless you are a publicly funded monopoly (e.g. the BBC) where the vast majority have no choice but to buy your product, regardless of your quality of service.

Did National Express cancel all of their coaches?

I notice the Douglas / Heysham Manx Ferry ran on Christmas Day to ensure people got home, how many extra trains ran on Christmas Day for the same purpose?

I'm certain lots of people in the railway community worked damned hard in difficult circumstances to get people home by Christmas. Perhaps the PR departments need to be getting some examples out - snowdrift at Bleath Gill for example.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Were you thinking of this particular BFI safety film while writing this?

I vividly remember that film from my childhood when it was shown on national TV. To be honest I thought it was some kind of 'false memory' until it came out on one of the BFI railway DVD's. Would anyone dare show it now - on the One Show for example?

Strangely enough it never stopped me from crossing railway lines, which I regard as far less dangerous than 70mph speed limit dual carriageways. Both of which have footpaths crossing them.

 

[pitdiver]

I think coaches can take different routes if a road is blocked or they work through one lane on a multi lane Motorway. Bit different to a Railway where an alternative route is always available let alone in existence. I worked for NX Coaches and I can tell you that I had numerous instances where serious delays have occurred due to major accidents on motorway resultin coaches being stuck for up to 3 hrs between junctions, You can't have a walk up and down a coach to stretch your legs.

 

[alcockell]

Hi folks, my mother is coming up from Seaford to Reading today - intending to start travel between 1400 and 1500 - is she clear - or are there any disruptions?

 

[bicbasher]

Good to see West Croydon has re-opened although there are delays and cancellations still on-going.

 

[island]

Southeastern didn't run much at all until 12pm and only a smattering of services since. The only London TOC to implement that I think. Even then services after have been cancelled due to driver shortages - an increasing occurrence in recent weeks with weather issues or not. This is not ideal when it is on the Victoria to Dartford like it was today when that service only has a train every 30 minutes.

What were the specific issues to justify this? I heard little about any trees down on lines. Winds were not too strong and the rain was less than forecast - around 10 mm and that became clear before midnight last night from the weather radars. Did it take 7 hours after the normal start of services (5am) to check routes? Particularly metro services. I understand longer distance services may have had more to contend with.

With more heavy rain and winds coming on Sunday night and Monday morning, along with more on Wednesday and Thursday it will be interesting to see if there are anymore midday starts.

I was very unimpressed with Southeastern's "service" and communication yesterday, as mentioned upthread. It does not compute to me how services that barely touch Kent, such as Dartford and Hayes services, could be so badly messed up all day.

 

[TheJRB]

Hi folks, my mother is coming up from Seaford to Reading today - intending to start travel between 1400 and 1500 - is she clear - or are there any disruptions?

Hi,

Which route is she taking? National Rail Enquiries suggests Seaford-Lewes-Three Bridges-(replacement bus)-Redhill-Reading. Departing 14:25 with an arrival of 17:19. If so, there doesn't appear to be any problems on that route at the moment.

 

[tsr]

FCC staff (yes, I know, FCC) have advised me that the landslip at Ockley is very similar in size & location to the recent previous one in the area, but that this should make it easier to plan repairs & SLW (etc.). Indeed, it seems to be correct (as posted above) that the delay to emergency works & opening of the Down Line is only due to the use of current resources for works between Redhill & Gatwick. I don't believe the Stoats Nest Junction works have all too much bearing on NR's capabilities for this specific incident, but I may be wrong.

 

[SF-02]

I was very unimpressed with Southeastern's "service" and communication yesterday, as mentioned upthread. It does not compute to me how services that barely touch Kent, such as Dartford and Hayes services, could be so badly messed up all day.

Indeed it seems off. I didn't think driver workings had much crossover so if one worked metro routes one day they stuck to metro that day and not long distance? Even if long distance Kent services were a no-go would something like a limited service from Slade Green depot in the morning be possible once checks carried out, which shouldn't need 7 hours on mostly local London based routes. Particularly with very little (any?) damage, following on from bad weather which was downgraded for the south east 12 hours before the service limitations were implemented. I understand that still necessitates checks but it was unlikely there would be wide spread issues after that happened.

Have to see what happens next week now.

 

[alcockell]

Hi,

Which route is she taking? National Rail Enquiries suggests Seaford-Lewes-Three Bridges-(replacement bus)-Redhill-Reading. Departing 14:25 with an arrival of 17:19. If so, there doesn't appear to be any problems on that route at the moment.

That sounds like the route she described over the phone..

 

[Chrisgr31]

Is it a better or worse place?
Advice not to travel may be sensible but it is not practical at a special time of year.

I think it depends on what you believe the messages "Do not travel unless essential" mean. Personally I take it to mean I may get stuck or significantly delayed and therefore only travel if I can put up with that. I'll go to work if I think I'll be able to get home again, if I don't think I can I wouldn't, and I wouldn't say make a trip to London to go shopping. However if I was travelling to see relatives on pre-booked tickets I probably would go, but the same as I would in the car I would just leave home earlier.

 

[tsr]

To reiterate... the landslip on the line via Redhill (which actually occurred much closer to Coulsdon South) was partially remedied for the last 2 London-bound trains on Christmas Eve. I haven't had an update for a couple of days on the Down Line repairs, but I would tentatively expect that to be open by the time the Stoats Nest Jn works are completed. The landslip on the Quarry Lines dislodged the conductor rail on the Up Line and I am told NR have made good progress in dealing with it.

As an aside, the 442 which struck the landslip near Coulsdon South at 0408hrs on Christmas Eve is reported to have been a very busy service, and at least 200 passengers were apparently stranded on it for several hours whilst another train was put in position to rescue them, following a safety assessment. This would have been in accordance with the tried-and-tested plans to assist derailed trains and cope with major incidents in the area, as well as procedures to get to trains which are stranded without any injuries to passengers or crews, due to the continued risk of landslides. Whilst the risk has been mitigated by major works over the past few years, these issues still occur from time to time.

 

[infobleep]

Got into Waverley over 2hrs late. Had to change at Carlisle due to no electrics going further. So a completely packed double voyager. Also track circuit and signal failures at Carlisle.

Massive well done to the VT staff though. Will send a postive note, after this last journey to Armadale.

Also was very strange going over Snap at 50 in a pendo

I would love you do that journey that slow to enjoy the scenery and indulge in my other pass time, trying to spot disused and former railway sites, such as stations and trying to see what is there now.

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[chris89]

I would love you do that journey that slow to enjoy the scenery and indulge in my other pass time, trying to spot disused and former railway sites, such as stations and trying to see what is there now.

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If had a window seat would have loved it, or if light wasn't going so quickly

 

[infobleep]

Just got the rail replacement coach from Gatwick to Reigate. Worked smoothly.

Got to pop into Woking later. Let's hope that is a smooth.

It seems to be that due to Christmas holidays, train companies were unable to generate emergency timetabls to their usual high standard. They were certainly struggling at times to give out the right advice.

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[infobleep]

Not quiet sure what's happening to the below train but according to the online departure board it's now at Dorking and it's not Suppose to have even left Redhill until after 2.30! Now stuck in a tragic jam. If it has left and 2.19 leaves on time, might be a long wait.

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[infobleep]

HiTurns out train on time. Unlike the buses. Traffic so bad in Reigate, we missed the fast train to Reading. I wonder if people going to Reading or beyond can claim as the next train is the stop at almost every station service.

It isn't however First Great Western's fault the traffic was bad. Wouldn't be a problem at night. It's just Saturday afternoon you slow down. Probably like this every Saturday afternoon.

As for the buses. 8 people couldn't get on the first coach so they just ran another for them. That is service for you.

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[user15681]

Particularly with very little (any?) damage

I believe there were at least 15 separate fallen tree incidents on the SE network yesterday morning, along with other obstructions and at least one landslide. It seemed like less damage this time, but I think that was because no trains were running at the time so there was no real need to inform people of where or what the incidents were.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why not just run them together to Eastleigh and split there rather than the fast passing the slow there...again not very sensible.

Perhaps they are run separately because the two trains joined would be over length? I saw a 444 followed by an 8.450 earlier... Your plan might be OK if they could guarantee they are all physically 'joinable' services...

Once Waterloo is back to normal on Monday, and if the Liphook landslip isn't rectified, I'd assume that as it is the working week all these diversions via Eastleigh will have to run at the max length possible anyway?

 

[Saint66]

Looks like another storm on Monday with some strong(ish) gusts, and also more heavy rain, which TOC's and NR in the South don't really need at the moment... Oh, and there could be another storm or two later in the week after Monday's....