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Weather related disruption - Christmas 2013 and New Year 2014

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jon0844

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And that they knew where they were going!

(Happy one year anniversary on RailUK to me!!!)

Ah yes, I forgot that - despite being on replacement buses in the past that got lost, including one that went down a road with a width restriction and got stuck!

Bus drivers may not need route knowledge like a train driver, but they certainly cannot just go anywhere they like!

I'm abroad so don't know quite how bad it was (and hoping my house is okay), but it seems that in places it was bordering on disaster territory.

In such circumstances, you don't just insist on travelling regardless. So what if it's Christmas? An event that has existed for a couple of thousand years and Mother Nature doesn't care one bit about - having looked after us for millions of years without a calendar.

If your life is potentially put at risk, stop and think about what you're doing. If you must wait to see family and friends, and give and receive gifts, so be it.
 
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Matt Taylor

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Portsmouth 'Direct' mainline will remain closed 'for some time' following a landslip at Liphook. Trains resume tomorrow but it's a bus service between Petersfield and Haslemere.
 

Wivenswold

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@Hellfire.

Totally agree. There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst rail passengers that borders on the ignorant.

Someone above said "It's easy to be wise after the event" in respect of having a contingency plan but, no, it's actually better to be wise before the event. If you r journey is very important then check the weather, take the advice of the rail operators and think for yourself. You're all grown-ups now and not everything will be laid on for you when you stamp your feet.
 

tony6499

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I think most TOCs were pro active in abandoning any reservations for specific trains and telling people they could travel earlier as well as giving detailed warnings I fail to see what else they can do in such extreme conditions.

The trouble with bustitution is that more often the roads are in a worse state than the rails and as an alternative that doesn't work.

I agree with the previous poster and if more travellers took responsibility for their own actions and journeys there wouldn't be so many stranded travellers.
 

VauxhallandI

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I think most TOCs were pro active in abandoning any reservations for specific trains and telling people they could travel earlier as well as giving detailed warnings I fail to see what else they can do in such extreme conditions.

The trouble with bustitution is that more often the roads are in a worse state than the rails and as an alternative that doesn't work.

I agree with the previous poster and if more travellers took responsibility for their own actions and journeys there wouldn't be so many stranded travellers.

Forgive me but what does cancelling peoples reservations do to help?

It just means you have peed off punters, surely once the train gets going, say after 10 mins then if a reserved seat is still free then it is fair game.
 

infobleep

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It could be argued the rail companies were slow to offer the option of travelling early. On the Sunday some companies started to offer earlier travel but others did not. Only later they followed suit when others were doing so. They were advising people on Twitter to check back but at the current time they had to travel at their advanced booking time.

They knew the storm was coming.

Later today we should hear about the level of services South West Trains will be providing tomorrow, excluding the next band of rain and wind, which may change all of that.

Does anyone know how the Stoaks Nest work is going or are they just dealing with the two embankment landslides that occurred on the Redhill and Quarry lines?

No Gatwick Express trains running today but I see the Gatwick Express Web Site gives the impression they are running tomorrow. I thought that was only Southern services. After they are both separate companies [trading companies], so Southern like to claim when selling tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This exactly. First Bus in my local struggle to find vehicles/drivers to cover their standard day-to-day operations, let alone finding additional resources to lay on rail replacement bus services. It's also worth pointing out that First Bus in Bristol were already pretty stretched as it was as they ran a normal weekday service this Christmas Eve.

Given that this is the case, I am always surprised when rail companies are able to get hold of buses during disruptions.

In the past I have noticed there are times when they can only source buses for parts of disrupted routes but not others. At least once there were buses between Guildford and Haslemere before now but nothing between Guildford and Woking, when the problems have been between Woking and Haslemere as a whole.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You can't help some folk.

The Virgin Twitter feed yesterday (Christmas Eve) included an exchange with someone anxious on behalf of their elderly father, who appeared to have set off from the Sussex coast well after lunch time and needed to get to Preston. It appeared he wasn't likely to get to Euston until around 20.00, and the enquirer was asking what arrangements Virgin might make.

The problem is, if you always bail out last-minute chancers with buses and taxis, they and others will take those chances more often, and costs will spiral. The same goes for those who choose to ignore weather forecasts or fail to undertake basic checks before they travel - eg, will the network close early on Christmas Eve?

Surely in cases like this and all others, all that matters if what the law and the lawyers say. If they legally say one must help then they must and if they don't, then they don't have to. If the law isn't practical or fair in these cases then it legally needs to be changed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Clause 45 specifies what is outside of the railway's control.
A coach operator I know used to have 2 vehicles with drivers on 24 hour standby for rail work until about 10 years ago. If this was reinstated as Goatboy states the cost will be passed on to passengers.

Does anyone know how they were able to afford to have 2 vehicles on 24 hour standby until 10 years ago? Was that at the expense of actually improving the railway infrastructure, which they are starting to do on some lines/routes?
 
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PHILIPE

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The thread title refers to 23rd (and 24th) December but there is a possibility of having to continue in view of the weather forecast tonight and tomorrow and the resumption of trains services.
 

Bald Rick

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Does anyone know how the Stoaks Nest work is going or are they just dealing with the two embankment landslides that occurred on the Redhill and Quarry lines?

No Gatwick Express trains running today but I see the Gatwick Express Web Site gives the impression they are running tomorrow. I thought that was only Southern services. After they are both separate companies [trading companies], so Southern like to claim when selling tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Gatwick Express IS running today, in the guise of a Southern service from London Bridge to East Grinstead for a coach connection. It's all one company with different branding and ticket restrictions. But let's not go there.

Stoats Nest started as planned. The landslips are being dealt with separately.
 

al78

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The thread title refers to 23rd (and 24th) December but there is a possibility of having to continue in view of the weather forecast tonight and tomorrow and the resumption of trains services.

I have also heard rumours of the possibility of more bad weather on New Years Day, which is when I am due to travel back home. I'm hoping this doesn't materialise, it is a long way off yet so plenty of uncertainty.
 

infobleep

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The Gatwick Express IS running today, in the guise of a Southern service from London Bridge to East Grinstead for a coach connection. It's all one company with different branding and ticket restrictions. But let's not go there.

Not according to Gatwick Express it isn't:
Boxing Day, Thursday 26 December

No Gatwick Express service will operate between Gatwick Airport and London Victoria today. Passengers are to use the rail replacement buses from Gatwick Airport to East Grinstead, where Southern train services operates to London Bridge. Passengers for Gatwick Airport are to use Southern Services from London Bridge to East Grinstead and then a rail replacement bus to the Airport. Please see southernrailway.com/christmas for details."
(http://www.gatwickexpress.com/)

Although they do say the following:

Friday December 27

A limited direct rail service will be available between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport. These services are likely to be very busy.
Which gives the impression Gatwick Express are running services tomorrow. However when I look up the services on National Rail Enquiries, I can find no Gatwick Express trains, just Southern, which of course is not the same thing.

Stoats Nest started as planned. The landslips are being dealt with separately.

Thanks for the info. How were they able to find staff to deal with Stoats Nest, given that it was Christmas or have staff kindly come off leave to deal with it?
 
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CallySleeper

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I have also heard rumours of the possibility of more bad weather on New Years Day, which is when I am due to travel back home. I'm hoping this doesn't materialise, it is a long way off yet so plenty of uncertainty.

Monday and Tuesday could certainly get quite wet and windy I think.
 

Stats

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Which gives the impression Gatwick Express are running services tomorrow. However when I look up the services on National Rail Enquiries, I can find no Gatwick Express trains, just Southern, which of course is not the same thing.
Gatwick Express website looks pretty clear to me.
From Wednesday 25 December to Wednesday 1 January there will be no Gatwick Express service. Passengers should use Southern services instead.
 

hwl

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Thanks for the info. How were they able to find staff to deal with Stoats Nest, given that it was Christmas or have staff kindly come off leave to deal with it?

Given they have been planning to sort Stoats Nest for several years this Xmas - New Year probably fairly easily... ;)
 

tony6499

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Forgive me but what does cancelling peoples reservations do to help?

It just means you have peed off punters, surely once the train gets going, say after 10 mins then if a reserved seat is still free then it is fair game.

Allowing people with a reservation on a specific train to catch any train even a day earlier which I would say is a considerable help
 

Goatboy

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Allowing people with a reservation on a specific train to catch any train even a day earlier which I would say is a considerable help

It is, but there is no need to cancel the reservations outright surely. Those who make the train they are booked on and have booked in advance would be justified in being peeved to find the reservations just outright cancelled. There is obviously an issue with reserved yet unoccupied seats from those who caught earlier trains but nothing the TM can't sort out once the train is on the move.

I've got a reservation for tommorrow which I made 2.5 months in advance because I know it's going to be very, very busy. I'd be very annoyed to find it cancelled...
 

6Gman

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So, at the end of it all - did anyone fail to get home for Christmas?

[I exclude from this question people who didn't bother reading the timetable...]
 

embers25

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I see Sotheastern have already said likely no trains before 12pm(!!!!!) tomorrow. I'm fine with SWT and their 10am staged starts given thats around 2 hours after daylight but 12!!!!! This is getting ridiculous. I know they need to ensure safety and so need delayed starts but they are getting later and later.
 

Goatboy

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12pm? There is no further weather warnings for wind in the South East region and there have not been since the 24th. What is the reason for no service until 12pm?

Looking at the Met Office weather warning for wind the South Eastern network is quite literally the furthest point away from it anywhere in the British isles..
 
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SF-02

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I see Sotheastern have already said likely no trains before 12pm(!!!!!) tomorrow. I'm fine with SWT and their 10am staged starts given thats around 2 hours after daylight but 12!!!!! This is getting ridiculous. I know they need to ensure safety and so need delayed starts but they are getting later and later.

Southeastern have form on this. When it has snowed in the past they have been the first to go to emergency timetables the night before, above and beyond other London based TOCs. Is there something about their network to justify this?

No wonder many want TfL to take over metro routes. Much more chance of them trying to run a service within the mainly London routes if they were in charge. I feel sorry for those who don't get paid if they do not get to work. Many more people these days are on casual and zero hour work. That's a whole days pay gone.

This storm is much more of a northerly affair, and the latest met office predictions are downgrading it for the south east. It does not appear to be like the one 3 days ago nor the one last month. If I was cynical I may think that this will please SE as they seem to have had a driver shortage in the past two weeks and this change to no running before mid-day doesn't affect their stats does it?
 
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jnjkerbin

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12pm does sound rather extreme. That said, I guess they could still start earlier if NR confirms that lines are clear.
 

GodAtum

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So, at the end of it all - did anyone fail to get home for Christmas?

[I exclude from this question people who didn't bother reading the timetable...]

Unfortunately I had to work on Xmas Eve so was unable to travel home. i got halfway and luckily i managed to book a hotel for 2 nights.
 
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theageofthetra

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If South Eastern don't run before 12 tmmr then that is abysmal. They have run a 'marquee' Boxing day service on HS1 & if too many drivers are now over hours as a result of Xmas eve (which is totally out of their control) & their Boxing day running then someone's head should roll. Ideally the civil servants who signed off & then failed to monitor/manage the terms of their franchise agreement.
 

user15681

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Damned if they do, damned if they don't seems to be an appropriate phrase.

From experience of both recent storms on 28th October and 23/24th December, SE said they'd start services from 9am and 7am respectively. In actual reality, many lines on the SE did not start up until after 12pm, both times. I can understand why it may seem like SE are getting later at their start ups, but even when they said 9am and 7am, it was actually later for a lot of areas.

As it happens, although this storm may well be a northerly affair, there is a yellow weather warning for London and South-east for heavy rain falling on already heavily saturated ground and the winds predicted are only slightly less than 23/24th, but are later in the morning, lasting approximately 0000-0700.
 
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Darandio

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Unfortunately I had to work on Xmas Eve so was unable to travel home. i got halfway and luckily i managed to book a hotel for 2 nights.

Yet managed to fly a full size 747 simulator on xmas eve!

That looked fantastic by the way.
 

SF-02

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They only ran 36 services all day today would it make that much difference to cancel all services before mid-day?

Jnjkerbin - Hopefully they would adjust to the reality but in previous years when they announced emergency services the night before snow which barely materialised (and only in rural Kent and not near to London) they didn't adjust timetables the following day. The emergency timetables were about 10% of normal services.

And three days ago they sent the first scheduled trains of the day out on metro routes to check the routes (but they were not available to passengers). They seemed to encounter few problems or blockages. They still didn't run anything up to 10am and barely any services after. The winds were declining quite sharply from 5am
 
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Goatboy

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Damned if they do, damned if they don't seems to be an appropriate phrase.

From experience of both recent storms on 28th October and 23/24th December, SE said they'd start services from 9am and 7am respectively. In actual reality, many lines on the SE did not start up until after 12pm, both times. I can understand why it may seem like SE are getting later at their start ups, but even when they said 9am and 7am, it never was then.

As it happens, although this storm may well be a northerly affair, there is a yellow weather warning for London and South-east for heavy rain falling on already heavily saturated ground and the winds predicted are only slightly less than 23/24th, but are later in the morning, lasting approximately 0000-0700.

There is no weather warning in force for high winds in the South East of England. There is a yellow warning for rain but that is not unusual or a particularly freak.

If SE are expecting damaging high winds then perhaps they should inform the Met Office who have not seen fit to warn the public of this.
 

Bishopstone

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12pm? There is no further weather warnings for wind in the South East region and there have not been since the 24th. What is the reason for no service until 12pm?

It's precautionary, I suppose.

Gusts of up to 60 mph are forecast for the Sussex coast, although that's not as bad as the Christmas Eve experience (where we had gusts of 70-80 mph, I think). Additionally, there will be plenty more rain threatening to flood sodden embankments, cuttings, tunnels etc.

The caution may well be justified, but if this weather event turns out to be nothing much, people would expect SET to be up and running a full service well before mid-day.
 

A-driver

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It is, but there is no need to cancel the reservations outright surely. Those who make the train they are booked on and have booked in advance would be justified in being peeved to find the reservations just outright cancelled. There is obviously an issue with reserved yet unoccupied seats from those who caught earlier trains but nothing the TM can't sort out once the train is on the move.



I've got a reservation for tommorrow which I made 2.5 months in advance because I know it's going to be very, very busy. I'd be very annoyed to find it cancelled...


They cancel reservations if multiple trains are being cancelled otherwise it becomes too problematic and unfair.

If your train is cancelled tomorrow and you have to travel on other fully reserved trains you won't get a chance of a seat so would be equally as peeved as anyone else watching you sit in your reserved seat whilst their train has been cancelled. So making it a free for all means hopefully those more in need of seats will get one.
 
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