Thameslink Southern & Great Northern Franchise

[JB25]

Apologies if already another thread but I couldn't find one... I know all Southern and FCC routes will be absorbed into the new TSGN franchise but from reading all the stuff about it I can't work out if only part of Southeastern or the whole region covered by Southeastern will be absorbed into it too?

So we know Govia, First Group, Stagecoach, Abellio and MTR have been invited to tender bids for it. Does anyone have any genuine preference for who gets it, if so why?

 

[Vicpaul]

Well we all know you don't want first to get it

 

[DJL]

Who currently runs the various parts that will make this up?

I think South Eastern has shown such a huge improvement since the connex days, maybe they should get it.

 

[Manchester77]

First Group operate the Thameslink and Great Northern routes with GoVia operating the Southern routes

SouthEastern is a GoVia franchise as is Southern and London Midland

My preference would be GoVia so we can keep the Southern branding and livery with is rather reminiscent of the original grouping company which is a nice touch but other than that any really

 

[JB25]

Maybe they should make a Green / Purple livery for it? If MTR get it it will go like all other LOROL liveries and if Stagecoach get it I imagine they will look like SWT / EMTs?

 

[DJL]

First Group operate the Thameslink and Great Northern routes with GoVia operating the Southern routes

SouthEastern is a GoVia franchise as is Southern and London Midland

My preference would be GoVia so we can keep the Southern branding and livery with is rather reminiscent of the original grouping company which is a nice touch but other than that any really

I must say I do rather like Southern's livery - and Southeasterns newest livery looks fantastic on the 465s.
.
First's livery is awful though

So from a livery point of view I'd agree.

However I'm not sure livery should be a deciding factor!

 

[Vicpaul]

It's only a matter of time before MTR have everything within the M25

 

[westcoaster]

Livery has already been chosen by the dft it's the one you can see the class 700's wearing in pictures.

From a personal point of view keep first, lots of guys don't want govia back again.

 

[ushawk]

Cant see Govia or First getting it - Stagecoach would be my preference.

Wouldnt be surprised if MTR got it actually.

 

[Eagle]

Apologies if already another thread but I couldn't find one... I know all Southern and FCC routes will be absorbed into the new TSGN franchise but from reading all the stuff about it I can't work out if only part of Southeastern or the whole region covered by Southeastern will be absorbed into it too?

Southeastern is staying completely separate; except that the services that are currently joint worked by Southeastern and FCC (to Sevenoaks mainly) will become TSGN-only services.

 

[Bald Rick]

... And a very small number of services that are jointly worked (Ashford / Rochester - Bedford) turn over to SE, going no further than Blackfriars from 2015.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if already another thread but I couldn't find one...

You could always have tried putting "TSGN" into the search box:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90383&highlight=TSGN

 

[DJL]

... And a very small number of services that are jointly worked (Ashford / Rochester - Bedford) turn over to SE, going no further than Blackfriars from 2015.

Does anyone know if these services will retain their current "fast" stopping pattern or if that will change?

 

[SF-02]

Who currently runs the various parts that will make this up?

I think South Eastern has shown such a huge improvement since the connex days, maybe they should get it.

Blimey what part of it do you use? I've found them to be the worst London area TOC. Mainly due to their very poor communications in times of trouble. For example they were the last to get an active twitter account after all other TOC had realised its value to commuters, and they also suffer from very poor communications at many stations when problems arise. Never used connex but communications are worse than under their directly operated predecessor.

How many southeastern trains will be freed up by services moving over to the new TSGN franchise up to 2018?

 

[jopsuk]

Still think it's a pity that the TfL plan to take on the Southeastern "Metro" sector fell through

 

[Bald Rick]

How many southeastern trains will be freed up by services moving over to the new TSGN franchise up to 2018?

None. They are all operated by FCC stock now (or stock that pretends to be).

 

[Eagle]

It was those services moving to FCC's stock (and the loss of services via Redhill to Southern) that enabled Southeastern to withdraw their 508s a while back.

 

[DJL]

Blimey what part of it do you use? I've found them to be the worst London area TOC. Mainly due to their very poor communications in times of trouble. For example they were the last to get an active twitter account after all other TOC had realised its value to commuters, and they also suffer from very poor communications at many stations when problems arise. Never used connex but communications are worse than under their directly operated predecessor.

How many southeastern trains will be freed up by services moving over to the new TSGN franchise up to 2018?

When I first started commuting to London in around 2003-2004 (I think) the 25 min journey from Orpington to London Bridge used to take 40-50 mins an average of 1 time in 5, with the rest being 30+ mins.

I can't be sure but I think Connex were still in charge back then, or had only recently lost it.
by the time I moved office about 2 years later journeys of longer than 30 mins on that service were the exception.

Since then I've used Orpington-> Teddington via Waterloo(E) [SWT was good but I was going against peak],
Orpington -> Vauxhall via both Waterloo(E) and Victoria
And most recently ( up until April this year) St Mary Cray -> Vauxhall

I found all of these services to be reasonably reliable and most of the time not more than a few mins late.

I do agree however that communication is poor.
Having said that I believe recovery time to be better than other TOCs (though I have no evidence for that - it is based purely on personal observation)


These days I have to suffer the combined First/Southeastern service from St Mary Cray to Blackfriars.
A service I have found to be slow and unreliable. And it seems to be getting worse too (recent weather aside)

At the slightest hint of major trouble the default solution seems to be to cancel everything (ok if the problem is in the core I can partly understand this - but outside no excuse) turn trains around early, or skip stops used by the majority of passengers.


I do recognise that this is all based on personal experience only - not on any official stats of any kind, so maybe I have just had an unusual run of luck that doesn't tie in with most peoples experiences.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Livery has already been chosen by the dft it's the one you can see the class 700's wearing in pictures.

There's nothing in the ITT which specifies a particular livery.
The bidders have to submit details of:

the strategy for branding the franchise as a whole and different elements within it, including what approach the Bidder will adopt for Gatwick Express and other Airport services.

 

[JB25]

You could always have tried putting "TSGN" into the search box:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90383&highlight=TSGN

I did try..

 

[sarahj]

The latest I've heard is that Stagecoach are planning to put in a realy strong bid and that they are going for it big time.

My worry is that govia overbid by quite a large margin on the last round and might do a 'east coast' this time round. As staff, its just a wait and see. Some bids sound good for on train staff like myself, others worrying. But at the moment its just gossip and speculation.

 

[Pumbaa]

Aye, no-one really knows. On paper, the only facts we have are past form. GoVia are successful at bidding for (and in some cases running) commuter railways. Despite many past bids, Stagecoach have never been overly successful in gaining new franchises, EMT being the only one they've gained since the initial round of franchising back in the very beginning.

My money, purely based on their expertise (and being incumbent certainly helps) would be on GoVia.

 

[Mintona]

I think GoVia do a pretty good job of the Southern and Southeastern franchises so I hope they retain it, if not then I hope Stagecoach win it.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

I hope whoever gets it keeps the Daysave tickets, and offers £5 tickets from my local station (Swanwick) to London. It has saved me a small fortune compared to the alternative the aforementioned Stagecoach and the 377s are more comfortable than a 450 any day.

 

[DJL]

I hope whoever gets it keeps the Daysave tickets, and offers £5 tickets from my local station (Swanwick) to London. It has saved me a small fortune compared to the alternative the aforementioned Stagecoach and the 377s are more comfortable than a 450 any day.

I don't think changing the operator will result in a mass changing if stock overnight!

Also aren't the seats on a 450 better than those on a 377?

 

[Carlisle]

I think GoVia do a pretty good job of the Southern and Southeastern franchises so I hope they retain it, if not then I hope Stagecoach win it.

I feel it's mostly irrelevant who gets it ,Southern and SWT have been fairly popular as they have had the luxury of being able to introduce new /refurbished stock and modernise stations whilst not having to make any controversial staff changes . if it's true what some posters say on the forum this new deal will make some awkward changes unavoidable so whoever gets it is going to face some bad feeling at times from all sides

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Not an expert on seats, but to me the standard class seats on 377s (in the 2+2 areas) look like the first class seats on a 450? I always seek out the 2+2 area, and it is nice having the choice for a long journey. We all know about the fuss caused by 450s on the Portsmouth line!
What a shame the opportunity was not taken to make the whole of the 3rd rail area one franchise from the start, it would have made operational sense as far as stock availability was concerned. A bit like the old "Southern" railway in fact.

 

[bicbasher]

My preference would be for GoVia. It was disappointing when GoVia lost the old Thameslink franchise for the combined TL and Great Northern franchise to FCC.

My only concern is that both Southern's discounted tickets, advance singles. Daysave's along with FCC's Super Off-Peak's will be scrapped. The current competition along the Brighton route has made for some great bargains to be made on journeys.

 

[59CosG95]

I think Stagecoach-then the MML would have a uniform livery for all its trains! The East Midlands, The South West and the South would be a sea of red and orange!

 

[WCMLaddict]

Come on Abellio!