Fuel duty freeze - a saving grace

[HowardGWR]

The Tory Chancellor is making great play of abolishing the 'hated fuel duty escalator'. Ironic as it was one of his colleagues that introduced it in the 90s. Politics aside, i have wondered whether, as it stands, this is not a blessing to the railways. Indeed it may well be that the Chancellor has been so advised. The growth of rail use has led to severe overcrowding and a call for renationalisation as the shortcomings are felt by many to be the fault of the private TOCs.

Perhaps the government has concluded that, as the shortfall of rolling stock cannot be remedied in the short term, a modal shift to road would be handy. It is already said that the government has given up all intentions of being green so this would fit that scenario.

Does this sound plausible?

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Tory Chancellor is making great play of abolishing the 'hated fuel duty escalator'. Ironic as it was one of his colleagues that introduced it in the 90s. Politics aside, i have wondered whether, as it stands, this is not a blessing to the railways. Indeed it may well be that the Chancellor has been so advised. The growth of rail use has led to severe overcrowding and a call for renationalisation as the shortcomings are felt by many to be the fault of the private TOCs.

Perhaps the government has concluded that, as the shortfall of rolling stock cannot be remedied in the short term, a modal shift to road would be handy. It is already said that the government has given up all intentions of being green so this would fit that scenario.

Does this sound plausible?

It sounds very plausible and well thought out well done!
It is the kind of thing they will do, but if they have they need to continue once we have excess capacity. (i am expecting us to have this up north in 5 years)

 

[edwin_m]

Rail overcrowding is worst in the peak hours, due to people for whom road congestion or other factors make driving impossible or intolerable. Not increasing road fuel duty is likely to hit off-peak travel, where more people have the option of driving instead.

Hence the railway will still incur the same costs (because these are normally determined by maximum passenger numbers in the peaks) but lose some off-peak revenue from people who could be carried at hardly any extra cost.

 

[mailman]

The LIB DEM chancellor you mean?

Mailman

 

[merlodlliw]

The LIB DEM chancellor you mean?

Mailman

The Government appointed Chancellor.

 

[Butts]

I think he's missed a trick to raise revenue here (nb not a tree hugger)

The price of petrol fluctuates so wildly and has recently come down quite a bit.

If he had put the last 2p on everyone would have forgotten about it and just be pleased fuel is a little cheaper. It's come down about 10p so what's 2p ?

The money raised could have been used to reduce or freeze excise duty on tobacco

By the way, by any small chance did the statement contain any news on excise duty on smokes - it's not going up by any chance is it

 

[HowardGWR]

The LIB DEM chancellor you mean?

Mailman

Who's he? You don't follow politics much I imagine?

My post is not meant to have a political slant, just a view on whether we may be witnessing pragmatism here. These pages are as full of complaints about overcrowding as the trains are themselves. I just wondered whether the Chancellor has been advised that making road more attractive is a way of dealing with the rail overcrowding?

If so I guess the Labour one, if he takes over, may be forced to the same conclusion. @Edwin-m says the roads are packed at rush hour anyway.

 

[gordonthemoron]

since trains & roads are mainly packed at peak times, if more people are encouraged to drive then it'll make roads even worse

 

[Moonshot]

As I ve mentioned before, an alternative is to increase rail fares in the super peak hours, and reduce them either side. Flexitime at the workplace is available far more than people imagine....

 

[gordonthemoron]

especially in shops

 

[sarahj]

I think he's missed a trick to raise revenue here (nb not a tree hugger)

The price of petrol fluctuates so wildly and has recently come down quite a bit.

If he had put the last 2p on everyone would have forgotten about it and just be pleased fuel is a little cheaper. It's come down about 10p so what's 2p ?

The money raised could have been used to reduce or freeze excise duty on tobacco

By the way, by any small chance did the statement contain any news on excise duty on smokes - it's not going up by any chance is it

This is just a statement. The money normally goes on in the main budget. In the meantime I'll just have to sit back and smoke my camel blues, Eur2.10 a pack from Tenerife.

 

[starrymarkb]

The LIB DEM chancellor you mean?

Mailman

I think you'll find that is George Gideon Oliver Osborne MP - Conservative member for Tatton

 

[Moonshot]

especially in shops

Indeed.....I dont actually know of a shop that opens 9-5 !!

A good example of a flextime attitude to the daily work schedule has occured over the last 10 years or so on the back of PFI contracts. In the private sector this has led to a substantial employment growth in 3rd party facility management companies. Last year I was working for one which had a contract with the BBC. It was striking to note that the service desk facility had shifts starting at 7am, 7.30am, 8.00am, 8.30am etc......all the way up to 10am. Similar applied in the late afternoon with shifts finishing at 4pm onwards.

 

[Butts]

This is just a statement. The money normally goes on in the main budget. In the meantime I'll just have to sit back and smoke my camel blues, Eur2.10 a pack from Tenerife.

Traitor... - those things are like camel dung !!!

I smoke UK made tabs ...even if I purchase them in Luxembourg

With regard to the Fuel - he could have an emergency budget and raise fuel duty from 6pm tonight.

Talking of motoring I hear the Tax Disc will soon be a thing of the past after 93 Years - but not the actual fee

 

[fowler9]

Indeed.....I dont actually know of a shop that opens 9-5 !!

A good example of a flextime attitude to the daily work schedule has occured over the last 10 years or so on the back of PFI contracts. In the private sector this has led to a substantial employment growth in 3rd party facility management companies. Last year I was working for one which had a contract with the BBC. It was striking to note that the service desk facility had shifts starting at 7am, 7.30am, 8.00am, 8.30am etc......all the way up to 10am. Similar applied in the late afternoon with shifts finishing at 4pm onwards.

That isn't flexi time by the sound of it mate. That is shift work. The last place I worked that had flexi time was 6 years ago and at the time I left new new staff had not been given it for a good few years, as it was in my contract it wasn't taken off me. The only place I can think of that offers flexi time now is the Revenue. I was under the impression that flexi has gone the way of none contributory pensions.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I do flexi time and have done most of my career (BR, General Accident, Thomson Holidays, Capital One etc.)

 

[Moonshot]

That isn't flexi time by the sound of it mate. That is shift work. The last place I worked that had flexi time was 6 years ago and at the time I left new new staff had not been given it for a good few years, as it was in my contract it wasn't taken off me. The only place I can think of that offers flexi time now is the Revenue. I was under the impression that flexi has gone the way of none contributory pensions.

The way they were doing it was to literally ask the staff what start and finish times they wanted.....on the understanding that everyting would be covered.

 

[Monty]

I seriously doubt the fuel duty freeze has anything to do with forcing passengers back on to roads, if they wanted to do that all they would have to do is increase ticket prices to the point it's more economical to drive into urban areas such as London or Manchester than by travel in by train. It's got more to do with the fact fuel in this country is absurdly expensive.

 

[fowler9]

The way they were doing it was to literally ask the staff what start and finish times they wanted.....on the understanding that everyting would be covered.

Fair play mate. That is very good of them. I honestly haven't come across many employers that flexible. I have had a few who claim to be and when the proverbial has hit the fan they haven't been.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I seriously doubt the fuel duty freeze has anything to do with forcing passengers back on to roads, if they wanted to do that all they would have to do is increase ticket prices to the point it's more economical to drive into urban areas such as London or Manchester than by travel in by train. It's got more to do with the fact fuel in this country is absurdly expensive.

I'd have to agree with that. Working for a while in Birchwood it was cheaper and quicker for me to get the train from Liverpool, and that was after a few times getting a lift where I paid my fair share of the fuel etc.

 

[Moonshot]

Yes it worked very well......we did a similar thing when I worked at Network Rail.

Nick Clegg seems to be big on the idea as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flextime

 

[Harlesden]

Stop giving aid to other countries - supposedly £7.7 billion pounds per year.
Use the money to do away with "duty" on alcohol fuel and tobacco (I'm a non-drinker by the way but am a smoker)
and
Reduce VAT back to 10%

 

[fowler9]

Stop giving aid to other countries - supposedly £7.7 billion pounds per year.
Use the money to do away with "duty" on alcohol fuel and tobacco (I'm a non-drinker by the way but am a smoker)
and
Reduce VAT back to 10%

I do partially agree with that. It seems mad giving aid to India when they have a space program, nuclear weapons and more aircraft carriers than most nations in the world including us.

 

[Moonshot]

Stop giving aid to other countries - supposedly £7.7 billion pounds per year.
Use the money to do away with "duty" on alcohol fuel and tobacco (I'm a non-drinker by the way but am a smoker)
and
Reduce VAT back to 10%

How about what we contribute to the Euro Parliament ?

 

[6Gman]

Stop giving aid to other countries - supposedly £7.7 billion pounds per year.
Use the money to do away with "duty" on alcohol fuel and tobacco (I'm a non-drinker by the way but am a smoker)
and
Reduce VAT back to 10%

If you're going to play Chancellor you might as well get the figures right!

The 2.5% increase in VAT yielded approx. £12bn. Cutting VAT to 10% would therefore cost around £48bn.

Not sure a saving of £7.7bn on overseas aid would balance that out ....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Tory Chancellor is making great play of abolishing the 'hated fuel duty escalator'. Ironic as it was one of his colleagues that introduced it in the 90s. Politics aside, i have wondered whether, as it stands, this is not a blessing to the railways. Indeed it may well be that the Chancellor has been so advised. The growth of rail use has led to severe overcrowding and a call for renationalisation as the shortcomings are felt by many to be the fault of the private TOCs.

Perhaps the government has concluded that, as the shortfall of rolling stock cannot be remedied in the short term, a modal shift to road would be handy. It is already said that the government has given up all intentions of being green so this would fit that scenario.

Does this sound plausible?

Well, it's an interesting idea BUT how does your theory fit the announcement that regulated fare increase levels are to be reduced? Sounds more to me like the Chancellor trying to take on Labour's 'Cost of Living Crisis' narrative by pointing to steps taken to hold down bills (petrol, rail fares, fuel etc).

 

[Zoe]

Reduce VAT back to 10%

There is an EU directive which wil not allow the standard VAT rate to be below 15% although certain goods and services (for example domestic fuel) can have reduced rate of VAT applied which the EU will permit to be as low as 5%.

 

[Butts]

Stop giving aid to other countries - supposedly £7.7 billion pounds per year.
Use the money to do away with "duty" on alcohol fuel and tobacco (I'm a non-drinker by the way but am a smoker)
and
Reduce VAT back to 10%

Nice idea, but Tobacco alone would cost 11Billion so it's a bit of a non-starter unfortunately.

You'd need more like 30 or 40 Billion I would have thought....whoops missed the VAT...

Make that over 100 Billion

 

[yorksrob]

I have to say, given the cuts are still going on, a marriage tax allowance (given couples already enjoy certain economies of scale) and free school meals for families that can pay for them, seem like a lousy way to squander taxpayers money.

At least the train fares are only going up by rpi.

 

[HowardGWR]

I think contributions are wandering here IIMSS. The discussion is about the abandonment of the fuel escalator. The whole idea of the latter originally was to encourage people out of private transport and into public transport or walking and cycling. Road traffic accounts for 25% of emissions.

Most car trips are of a very short distance indeed. However, the nation's fatsos cannot bring themselves to walk or cycle a few hundred yards, let alone a mile or more. Rail only comes in over longer distances but can make a contribution, except that (if I believe what I read here) there is severe shortcoming of capacity.

So my point was whether the government is backtracking (rumoured to be discarding 'green crap' policies) and is happy just to let people queue from the driveway to school and then on to work, which is the major source of road congestion.

 

[fowler9]

I think contributions are wandering here IIMSS. The discussion is about the abandonment of the fuel escalator. The whole idea of the latter originally was to encourage people out of private transport and into public transport or walking and cycling. Road traffic accounts for 25% of emissions.

Most car trips are of a very short distance indeed. However, the nation's fatsos cannot bring themselves to walk or cycle a few hundred yards, let alone a mile or more. Rail only comes in over longer distances but can make a contribution, except that (if I believe what I read here) there is severe shortcoming of capacity.

So my point was whether the government is backtracking (rumoured to be discarding 'green crap' policies) and is happy just to let people queue from the driveway to school and then on to work, which is the major source of road congestion.

Apologies if I drifted off topic. I personally think the government is backtracking and is happy for people to queue from home to school to work. It is cheap point scoring.

 

[HowardGWR]

Apologies if I drifted off topic. I personally think the government is backtracking and is happy for people to queue from home to school to work. It is cheap point scoring.

Yes I should emphasise that I did not say everyone who lives this lifestyle is a 'fatso' - but of course many are. I could do with a few pounds less, so in no position to criticise others!