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Trains without Toilets
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Most inner suburban trains, and even some outer-suburban or inter-regional trains (for a controversy on this issue see Southern Class 313 & toilets)
No, but it's almost certainly a franchise commitment for many longer distance routes, I'd expect.
Oh my god the 507's and 508's. Going from Liverpool to Chester or Southport for an evening out is a bad plan. Hell of a drag back and it is pretty much guaranteed that the toilets at Moorfields, Lime Street or Central will be shut before you continue your journey.
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61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
313s (First CapitalConnect, Southern); 314s (First Scotrail); 315s (GreaterAnglia); 376s (SouthEastern); 378s (London Overground); 455s (Southern, South West Trains); 456s (Southern, but soon moving to South West Trains); 507/508s (Merseyrail).
I think that's the lot. And as Yorkie stated, they mostly (with the exception of the Southern 313s) operate on inner-suburban, Metro-style services.
Plenty...Classes 139, 313, 315, 376, 378, 455, 456 and 483 spring to mind.
If memory serves, maximum journey time is laid down at an hour, except in emergencies.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Ah, forgot about the anomalies of Stourbridge and the Isle of Wight!
I'm sure most people would like to forget about PPMs
1938 Tube Stock, on the other hand...
Isn't that just a rumour?
There is no set time (313s on FCC and southern do over an hour such as Brighton- Portsmouth and Moorgate to Letchworth). But generally people won't travel on them end to end (you would change at Finsbury park if doing Moorgate to Stevenage or beyond and catch the faster xx11 which has a toilet). 455s used to work London bridge-Horsham aswell.
JamesRowden
Established Member
A London Charing Cross to Hastings service that I travelled on had a long stop at Tonbridge which, on arrival at Tonbridge, the guard anounced was to allow people to go to the toilet since the train's toilet had failed.
ryan125hst
Established Member
I'm surprised to here that Lime Street's toilets are shut at night considering the fact that you have to pay to use them.
Looking on National Rails's stations made easy, you have to ask the staff for access at Moorfields, and it says that are they until just after midnight, so after the last train I believe. There is so staff until a similar time at Liverpool Central, although it looks like you don't need a key for the toilets normally.
The question is, could you not ask staff for access if they are locked? If you've got a valid ticket in your hand, I can't see the harm in staff doing this, even if it just a radar key to the disabled. That said, I've never travelled by train late at night and have never travelled on Merseyrail, so maybe they won't.
Well as for when Lime Street, Moorfields and Central station toilets are open you better have a nice smile on your face. Regarding trains needing a toilet if it is over an hour journey Merseyrail run a train every 15 minutes most days that takes an hour and 4 minutes and has no toilet. Hunts Cross to Southport. Not to mention the four running the other way.
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To be honest you'd have to be a bit mad to visit Merseyside and go for a pint in Southport whilst staying in Hunts Cross and especially vice versa so it isn't normally an issue. That said I have done a few treks from Southport and Chester to Liverpool city Centre. The bladder can still get a bit full.
tsr
Established Member
I'm pretty sure they still do (I was onboard one a month or two ago!), but I guess their diagrams may officially have been replaced by the 377/6s. Maybe someone can clarify.
I think 2M13 0731 Coulsdon Town - Watford Jn is also a 455, at least at times, with an overall journey time of 91mins. You'd be mad to endure it for that long, but maybe some do!
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
In my student days Ormskirk > Central > Chester was a regular run, and didn't cause me any problems with regard to toilets (I have type-1 diabetes).
Thinking about it, if we're still going to be short of DMUs come 2020, perhaps 143/144s, even the dreaded 142s could have the toilets removed and be made compliant- handy for short(ish) trips like Piccadilly-Rose Hill or Lancaster-Morecambe (though not the Leeds trains, obviously!). It'd presumably be cheaper (thus less risk for the ROSCO) than fitting an enormous accessible loo, and you wouldn't lose quite so much seating, you might even gain some...
tractakid
Member
I would doubt it, do 455s have pantographs?
causton
Established Member
No, they don't. Therefore they can, have and will work on services to Shepherds Bush but no further north! If you did see it on a Watford service it would have either
a) Made the news as it lost power around Wembley
or b) Had a set swap somewhere!
In my student days Ormskirk > Central > Chester was a regular run, and didn't cause me any problems with regard to toilets (I have type-1 diabetes).
Thinking about it, if we're still going to be short of DMUs come 2020, perhaps 143/144s, even the dreaded 142s could have the toilets removed and be made compliant- handy for short(ish) trips like Piccadilly-Rose Hill or Lancaster-Morecambe (though not the Leeds trains, obviously!). It'd presumably be cheaper (thus less risk for the ROSCO) than fitting an enormous accessible loo, and you wouldn't lose quite so much seating, you might even gain some...
Mate it wouldn't be a proper thread if there wasn't at least one person saying about how they lasted 10 hours without a toilet despite having a toilet related problem. Well done.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Always glad to be of service!
(though my 'problem' is not really of a directly toilet-related nature, more having somewhere private so I can inject my insulin without alarming my fellow passengers!)I guess what it really boils down to is that if a passenger needs to jump off the train to answer a call of nature, it's not such a big deal if they know there'll be another train along in 10-15mins, regardless of how long their journey is. If a service is <1hour end-to-end and facilities are provided at both termini, a toilet isn't really needed on the train. Likewise if the frequency is 3/4tph or more. Journeys like these are more like bus or 'metro' journeys really- and you wouldn't expect a toilet on your local bus service or the tube!
TheJRB
Established Member
The December 2012 diagrams were as follows:
2E12 0756 London Victoria to Horsham (0903)
2E76 1617 London Victoria to Horsham (1738)
2E80 1647 London Victoria to Horsham (1807)
2E92 1820 London Victoria to Horsham (1940) with 2 x 456
2E98 1920 London Victoria to Horsham (2038) with 456
2E05 0620 Horsham to London Victoria (0741) with 456
2E23 0909 Horsham to London Victoria (1031)
2E93 1804 Horsham to London Victoria (1930)
2E97 1833 Horsham to London Victoria (1956)
2E05 2006 Horsham to London Victoria (2126) with 2 x 456
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JB25
Member
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I used to hate travelling up to the city in my old job on the SWTs 455s without toilets. Journey was only 25-30 mins but if you need to go, you need to go. 
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LexyBoy
Established Member
It's not uncommon at the moment for Reading-Waterloo to be worked by 455s (related to the 458/5 conversions maybe?). Fun times with a toddler!
alwaystouchout
Member
Were 142s originally built with toilets?
Always glad to be of service!
I guess what it really boils down to is that if a passenger needs to jump off the train to answer a call of nature, it's not such a big deal if they know there'll be another train along in 10-15mins, regardless of how long their journey is. If a service is <1hour end-to-end and facilities are provided at both termini, a toilet isn't really needed on the train. Likewise if the frequency is 3/4tph or more. Journeys like these are more like bus or 'metro' journeys really- and you wouldn't expect a toilet on your local bus service or the tube!
Spot on there mate, in rush hour the bus to town from mine takes over an hour and as you say I wouldn't expect a loo. Apologies by the way, I was only joking yesterday evening, I read it back and what I wrote looked a bit stroppy.
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I'm pretty much 100% sure the 142's always had toilets. They do look a bit like afterthoughts though. Ha ha.
colchesterken
Member
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- 12 Oct 2010
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I think it should be a franchise requirement to have toilets either in trains or on stations
On the liverpool st metro services the toilets have been closed on local stations and there have never been toilets on class 315s. to make matters worse local councils have closed public toilets to cut costs
As on older person arrangements have to be thought about before travel
On the liverpool st metro services the toilets have been closed on local stations and there have never been toilets on class 315s. to make matters worse local councils have closed public toilets to cut costs
As on older person arrangements have to be thought about before travel
tractakid
Member
Unbelievably two of my teammates on a tube challenge earlier this year lasted the whole 17 hours without going! I just about managed with one, annoyingly the c2c unit I was in didn't have a functioning toilet and due to it being one of the few that didn't stop at Barking, had no opportunity to swap. I was bursting at the end.
Tube trains should definitely have toilets to cater for us lot :P
Ha ha, I'd love to do a tube challenge by the way. Me and a mate have been discussing it.
Sadly Ken, our human needs cut into profits and so are ignored. You're right about local councils. Mine has closed public toilets too but continues to publish a regular glossy magazine, delivered to my door, telling folk just how good they are. The lunatics really are in charge of the asylum.
the whole units look like afterthoughts :P
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