Staff travel card and weekend first.

[celeborne]

If I fill in a box to travel, and I want to upgrade to weekend first, how much do I pay? Is it full weekend first (£25.00) or 25% of that?

 

[yorkie]

Weekend First might not be available to you, depending on the Train Company and their policies.

If it is, then a PRIV card does not offer any discount off Weekend First supplements.

 

[A-driver]

If I fill in a box to travel, and I want to upgrade to weekend first, how much do I pay? Is it full weekend first (£25.00) or 25% of that?

It's full weekend upgrade price. Are they ex-BR boxes or unprotected ones? I normally do it using my FCC pass on east coast and it's the usual £15 to sit in first.

Obviously ask the guard when you board as some may refuse to let you pay...

 

[6Gman]

The last time I travelled up to Euston on a Sunday the TM invited me to "travel up front" anyway when he saw the PT card.

I didn't like to say no!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Obviously ask the guard when you board as some may refuse to let you pay...

Avantix failure, surely? (Or pen out of ink for those TOCs that issue handwritten supplements)

 

[DJ737]

G'day

When I worked on LU in the 80"s & 90"s I travelled up to Nottingham from St. Pancras (Priv single £4.25) on the weekends, often in 1st and the supplement then was £5, I can't recall ever having to pay it, even though I had my fiver ready, these days things may be different.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[83G/84D]

Cross country charge normal rate for PRIV users upgrading to weekend first.

 

[1D53]

I've done it before and they are meant to charge the normal upgrade fee, as others have said it's often a case of the machine being broken though!

 

[CyrusWuff]

It'e also worth noting that Virgin have recently updated the relevant page in "The Manual" to confirm that the free Weekend Upgrade for holders of Anytime tickets officially applies to Railcard and PRIV discounted tickets as well. No mention of boxes, however.

 

[1D53]

It'e also worth noting that Virgin have recently updated the relevant page in "The Manual" to confirm that the free Weekend Upgrade for holders of Anytime tickets officially applies to Railcard and PRIV discounted tickets as well. No mention of boxes, however.

Now that is a big bonus.

 

[NLC1072]

Now that is a big bonus.

I might just gve up the cheaper tickets on LM for that!

 

[FFC]

The last time I travelled up to Euston on a Sunday the TM invited me to "travel up front" anyway when he saw the PT card.

I hope you reported them, so their employer could take suitable action. Employee fraud is taken very seriously by the courts.

 

[455driver]

I hope you reported them, so their employer could take suitable action. Employee fraud is taken very seriously by the courts.

What are you going on about? :roll:

 

[A-driver]

I hope you reported them, so their employer could take suitable action. Employee fraud is taken very seriously by the courts.

Fraud? How is it fraud if the guard invites you to sit n first class? Either you don't understand what the post is about or you are just jealous that others get any kind if perk with their job...

Fraud would be if he showed a fake first class ticket, being invited to travel in first class by an authorised person is not fraud in anyway, same as a TM inviting any passenger into first if, for example, there is an issue with their reserved seats like sometimes happens on intercity trains.

 

[bb21]

Agreed. The accusation of "fraud" has completely lost me.

 

[FFC]

Seems fairly obvious, if the train company tariff required an additional fare payable to sit in first class, the dishonesty was not collecting the fare due, so depriving their employer of income.

So yes, I do hope that an honest person would have reported this.

 

[gnolife]

Seems fairly obvious, if the train company tariff required an additional fare payable to sit in first class, the dishonesty was not collecting the fare due, so depriving their employer of income.

So yes, I do hope that an honest person would have reported this.

Quote below taken from the National Rail Conditions of Carriage

39. Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class
accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may
travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra
charge.
On-train staff will not give you permission to use first class accommodation (or the
equivalent) unless they are satisfied that it is not required by anyone with a first class
ticket and the standard class accommodation on the train is full. This permission may be
withdrawn if a person holding a first class ticket requires the accommodation during your
journey or standard class accommodation becomes available.
If you have a standard class ticket and you travel in first class accommodation without
permission (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage), you
will have to pay:
(i) the difference between the price of that ticket and the price of the first class
ticket for the accommodation you have used; or
(ii) where Condition 4 (b) applies, you may be charged a Penalty Fare.
If you have a standard class Season Ticket, you may only travel in first class
accommodation (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage) if:

(a) the difference between the full single fare for first class accommodation and the
full single fare for standard class accommodation has been paid before your
journey starts;
(b) any other relevant supplement set out in the notices and other publications of the
Train Companies has been paid before your journey starts;
(c) notices are displayed allowing passengers with standard class tickets to use first
class accommodation; or
(d) on-train ticket staff have given you permission. In all other cases, if you travel in
first class accommodation (or the equivalent) with a standard class Season Ticket,
you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket and Condition 2
or 4 will apply.

A 5 minute search through the NRCoC has turned up the above quoted condition, number 39, clearly states that the TM was well within his rights to upgrade the passenger for nothing.

 

[Llanigraham]

FFC,
Do you work on the railway, or are you a walt?

 

[A-driver]

Seems fairly obvious, if the train company tariff required an additional fare payable to sit in first class, the dishonesty was not collecting the fare due, so depriving their employer of income.

So yes, I do hope that an honest person would have reported this.

So you currently have only 3 posts on this forum and 2 of them are on this thread spouting a huge load of rubbish trying to accuse staff of fraudulent travel because we are friendly towards each other and look out for our colleagues.

Of course if a guard upgrades a staff member to first for free then that staff member is more likely to offer assistance should it be required. And most staff recognise that no matter what uniform we wear we all do the same job and are one big family. Upgrading a staff member isn't any different to upgrading a member of the public when there is a problem with their seat reservation etc.

I take it FFC dosn't work in the industry and is just jealous that anyone should get a perk that he dosnt...rather sad and pathetic really.

 

[6Gman]

I hope you reported them, so their employer could take suitable action. Employee fraud is taken very seriously by the courts.

I will admit to a certain hypocrisy here, as I'm very uncomfortable with accepting 'freebies' when a Conductor sees my PT card and declines to issue a ticket. However - perhaps inconsistently - I view a 'free upgrade' in a different light, particularly when both standard and first are barely 20% full!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Seems fairly obvious, if the train company tariff required an additional fare payable to sit in first class, the dishonesty was not collecting the fare due, so depriving their employer of income.

So yes, I do hope that an honest person would have reported this.

And, when I was a little lad, I used to get free sandwiches from the buffet car (created out of the 'wastage' allowance - this was when sandwiches were made on-board). And the buffet crew got cleaning cloths from my father which were a better grade than their standard issue.

Criminality? Or just colleagues helping each other out?

FFC may take a different view from most of us .....

 

[Muzer]

I will admit to a certain hypocrisy here, as I'm very uncomfortable with accepting 'freebies' when a Conductor sees my PT card and declines to issue a ticket. However - perhaps inconsistently - I view a 'free upgrade' in a different light, particularly when both standard and first are barely 20% full!

If I were rail staff, I would have the same opinion, though I can't particularly justify it...

 

[83G/84D]

I recall a passenger joining a busy FGW service and getting irate with the guard because he could not find a vacant seat in standard class and was going to sit in 1st class at no extra charge as he had a valid ticket to travel which entitled him to a seat.

The guard said to said passenger that if he could find the gentleman a seat would he sit in it and the reply was yes.

Guard says to irate passenger to wait there and goes off into standard class and randomly picks a couple travelling together and asks them if they would like to go into 1st class at no extra charge. They say yes and go into 1st class leaving a couple of standard class seats vacant, one which is then occupied by "Mr Angry".

Mad me chuckle at the time!

 

[6Gman]

Can anyone clarify for me:

On Virgin West Coast:

Can I pay £15 for a weekend upgrade if I'm travelling on:
a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price.

Do I qualify for free upgrade by holding an anytime ticket if I'm travelling on:
a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price - not restricted to any train/time on that day

TIA

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Can anyone clarify for me:

On Virgin West Coast:

Can I pay £15 for a weekend upgrade if I'm travelling on:
a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price.

....

a) Not sure off-hand, my gut feeling is no.
b) Yes, provided space is available or it is pre-booked.

....Do I qualify for free upgrade by holding an anytime ticket if I'm travelling on:
a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price - not restricted to any train/time on that day.

....

a) No, the offer is for Anytime Single and Return ticket holders.
b) Yes, an Anyime Single or Return is valid in First Class at weekends and on Bank Holidays provided space is available.

 

[bb21]

a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price.

Yes to both.

a) a free pass i.e. dated box
b) a Privilege fare i.e. 25% of normal price - not restricted to any train/time on that day

I'm not sure about the first one but the second one has been clarified recently and a free upgrade is applicable since it is an Anytime ticket.

 

[maniacmartin]

Quote below taken from the National Rail Conditions of Carriage



A 5 minute search through the NRCoC has turned up the above quoted condition, number 39, clearly states that the TM was well within his rights to upgrade the passenger for nothing.

The NRCoC is the contract between a fare-paying passenger and the TOCs. It's totally seperate to the contract between a train manager and their employer TOC

 

[bb21]

Surely the TM is acting as a representative for the company in that case?

 

[maniacmartin]

Yes, but whether they are in compliant with company policies is surely governed by their employment contract, not the passenger's contract with the TOC and its representatives.

 

[A-driver]

Why does any of this matter? There is nothing wrong with a guard letting someone sit in first for nothing. It's not fraud and I fail to see anything wrong with it at all unless it means people who actually have paid for first class can't sit down, but I have never known that to happen-if first was full or busy then the guard wouldn't offer free upgrades.

Many jobs have perks and have a certain 'family' feel between staff, it's nothing unique to the railways. It just seems that some people are jealous that they don't get a perk that someone else gets.

Even if you find legal reasons for it not to happen, management have better things to do than try and charge an employee with fraud for letting a person sit in a slightly different type of chair to the one they have a ticket for.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Who really gives a stuff if a guard lets another guard sit on the comfy cushions for free? Certainly not me. I wish I had that perk, but I don't because I work for a University, so there you go.

But technically giving a product for free when you should charge is depriving your employer of income. That's theft from your employer. If you're caught doing it in a bar or in Tesco you'll be sacked, and we've established that first class is a premium product that is different from the standard product.

That's a matter for the employer and employee though, and I can't imagine management giving two hoots unless they really don't like the member of staff involved. Especially given how temperamental those pesky Avantix machines can be.