Farringdon now a London Terminal

[mattdickinson]

There are posters up at Farringdon advising that it is now a London Terminal.



but only for tickets marked "Plus High Speed"....

 

[tractakid]

What?!

 

[maniacmartin]

What is the exact wording of the posters? Is it possible to get a picture

Needless to say, Farringdon is not listed as part of the London Group in the Routeing Guide. However, many season between Kent and London Terminals are priced identically to a ticket from the same station to City Thameslink, which would be valid through Farringdon, so this might be there way of avoiding to do zero-fare season ticket changeovers

 

[RJ]

There was some drama a while ago because these tickets had the unusual feature of being valid to both the London SR Terminals and St Pancras International, but not between them. I wonder if it is related?

That said, National Rail Enquiries advertises that an Ashford International to London Terminals Not Valid on HS1 routed ticket is valid to get to St Pancras via London Bridge and Farringdon, so it's already valid anyway.

 

[Haywain]

The Manual says this:

Tickets issued to or from ‘LONDON TERMINALS’ are only valid as described above (click here) Customers with London Terminals tickets routed “Plus High Speed” are also permitted to travel in either direction on First Capital Connect services between London St Pancras International and Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, Elephant & Castle, London Bridge.

So, presumably, travel on Southeastern services over the same metals is not permitted!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm sure a simpler answer would have been changing the destination of 'Plus High Speed' tickets from London Terminals to London Thameslink.

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm sure a simpler answer would have been changing the destination of 'Plus High Speed' tickets from London Terminals to London Thameslink.

It might make the tickets harder to find in some TIS and TVMs though, as you wouldn't be able to search for a member station and easily find a ticket for the group?

 

[MikeWh]

I'm sure a simpler answer would have been changing the destination of 'Plus High Speed' tickets from London Terminals to London Thameslink.

It might make the tickets harder to find in some TIS and TVMs though, as you wouldn't be able to search for a member station and easily find a ticket for the group?

Plus, aren't +HS tickets also valid via classic routes to Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, etc?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It might make the tickets harder to find in some TIS and TVMs though, as you wouldn't be able to search for a member station and easily find a ticket for the group?

Not sure how, my Tis at work can tell me if Manchester Piccadilly (or even just 'Manchester') is Manchester Stns or Manchester Ctlz depending on the origin. It can do similar for St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle.

Online journey planners can do the same.
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Plus, aren't +HS tickets also valid via classic routes to Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, etc?

True, but telling people Farringdon is only London Terminals for 'Plus High Speed' tickets is like telling people Advance tickets to Manchester aren't valid for stopping short at Stockport. "It doesn't make any sense!"

 

[Eagle]

So, presumably, travel on Southeastern services over the same metals is not permitted!

However, there are no Southeastern services north of Blackfriars. The Sevenoaks to Kentish Town services switch operators at Blackfriars (even though they don't switch staff).

 

[sheff1]

I'm sure a simpler answer would have been changing the destination of 'Plus High Speed' tickets from London Terminals to London Thameslink.

If some staff at London Bridge won't accept tickets to London Thameslink destinations, imagine what might happen if you presented one at Victoria or Charing Cross !

 

[Tetchytyke]

True, but telling people Farringdon is only London Terminals for 'Plus High Speed' tickets is like telling people Advance tickets to Manchester aren't valid for stopping short at Stockport. "It doesn't make any sense!"

Yes, but Farringdon is only a London Terminal for +HS to allow transfer between the "classic" stations and St Pancras International. They've allowed entry and exit there to specifically allow stopping short!

 

[tractakid]

However, there are no Southeastern services north of Blackfriars. The Sevenoaks to Kentish Town services switch operators at Blackfriars (even though they don't switch staff).

Forgive me for thinking otherwise!

 

[MikeWh]

Forgive me for thinking otherwise!

Journey planners can't show a service belonging to more than one operator, hence all northbound services are operated by SE while all southbound services are operated by FCC. In reality, responsibility switches at City Thameslink in both directions.

 

[Eagle]

Forgive me for thinking otherwise!

That's because the timetable data doesn't allow for a change of TOC en-route. Similarly you'll find that the journey planner will tell you that a journey from Kilmarnock to Glasgow Central is operated by Northern (if that train started from Newcastle).

Officially, everything north of Blackfriars is FCC. (And from December 2014 everything south of it will be too.)

 

[tractakid]

That's because the timetable data doesn't allow for a change of TOC en-route. Similarly you'll find that the journey planner will tell you that a journey from Kilmarnock to Glasgow Central is operated by Northern (if that train started from Newcastle).

Officially, everything north of Blackfriars is FCC. (And from December 2014 everything south of it will be too.)

But, if I book a ticket with that itinerary and it being a Southeastern train would somehow benefit me, wouldn't that be a good piece of supporting evidence?

 

[Eagle]

But, if I book a ticket with that itinerary and it being a Southeastern train would somehow benefit me, wouldn't that be a good piece of supporting evidence?

Probably, although I can't think of a situation where that would apply (other than you having a Southeastern staff pass).

 

[Paul Kelly]

That's because the timetable data doesn't allow for a change of TOC en-route. Similarly you'll find that the journey planner will tell you that a journey from Kilmarnock to Glasgow Central is operated by Northern (if that train started from Newcastle).

It does sort of though. Change-en-route records in the timetable data always show when there is a change of train service code, and any change in operator can be deduced from this (in fact, I believe the operator code in the timetable data is always derived from the train service code anyway and simply copied in from a look-up table).

Thus BRtimes.com correctly shows the change of operator, e.g. for Sevenoaks to Bedford or Newcastle to Glasgow.

 

[cyclebytrain]

Not sure how, my Tis at work can tell me if Manchester Piccadilly (or even just 'Manchester') is Manchester Stns or Manchester Ctlz depending on the origin. It can do similar for St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle.

Online journey planners can do the same.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


True, but telling people Farringdon is only London Terminals for 'Plus High Speed' tickets is like telling people Advance tickets to Manchester aren't valid for stopping short at Stockport. "It doesn't make any sense!"

Setting the cat amongst the pigeons here: maybe they should just do away with "London Terminals" and have tickets to either U1 or named station only...

 

[bb21]

Setting the cat amongst the pigeons here: maybe they should just do away with "London Terminals" and have tickets to either U1 or named station only...

What about Reading to London Terminals, as an example?

 

[cyclebytrain]

What about Reading to London Terminals, as an example?

Reading to Paddington, Reading to Waterloo, Reading to U1. Simple...

 

[bb21]

Reading to Paddington, Reading to Waterloo, Reading to U1. Simple...

Ah, I see what you mean now.

 

[Eagle]

An what about the other London terminals that you can validly get to from Reading, such as Victoria (change at Clapham Junction) or Charing Cross (change at Waterloo)?

 

[cyclebytrain]

An what about the other London terminals that you can validly get to from Reading, such as Victoria (change at Clapham Junction) or Charing Cross (change at Waterloo)?

Reading to U1 I guess.

 

[bb21]

Reading to U1 I guess.

Then you will be paying more than what you are paying now, and you have ignored the fact that a Zone U1 ticket is not valid for National Rail destinations (exceptions apply).

 

[cyclebytrain]

Then you will be paying more than what you are paying now, and you have ignored the fact that a Zone U1 ticket is not valid for National Rail destinations (exceptions apply).

I don't think making passengers pay more would concern the TOCs much. They'd probably label it as an improvement by setting the cost of a ticket to a named station lower than the London Terminals ticket it replaced.

If you were going to make the change to get rid of London Terminals, then you'd probably make U1 valid for National Rail destinations at the same time. You could call it a "simplification"

 

[John @ home]

You could call it a "simplification"

<the penny drops> Ah! You mean a fare increase.

 

[davetheguard]

Reading to Paddington, Reading to Waterloo, Reading to U1. Simple...

And what exactly, would be the benefit to the passenger of this suggested change?

Sometimes it is convenient (or pleasant) to go out one route and back by another........

 

[hungoverdrawn]

Confirmed. I travel to St Pancras via HS1 and work in Farringdon and had just bought a one month season ticket from St Pancras to Farringdon when I found this out. Helpful of the member of First Capital Connect to sell me a ticket that I didn't need, n'est-ce pas? I have now filled out a refund form and am getting £20 back.

Interestingly while my Southeastern ticket gets me into and out of the St Pancras FCC platforms, it does not let me in to or out of Farringdon station (either the tube or the overground entrances). I have to show my ticket to a member of staff who then lets me through. I queried this and the explanation given was that although due to this rule change my ticket is valid to Farringdon, it is not valid to any other London station.