Energy Price Hike- all Hype ?

[Monty]

In theory it shouldn't really matter who funds the construction of these new power stations, the very nature of their operation means the electricity can be generated in far greater amounts and far more cheaply than fossil fuel plants. We lost out on long term cheap energy when we stopped serious development of our NPPs in the 60 and 70s. Truth be told we've been out of the game for so long we lack the knowledge to build them anymore for a competitive price and the foreign energy companies will reap the benefits.

 

[455driver]

In theory it shouldn't really matter who funds the construction of these new power stations, the very nature of their operation means the electricity can be generated in far greater amounts and far more cheaply than fossil fuel plants. We lost out on long term cheap energy when we stopped serious development of our NPPs in the 60 and 70s. Truth be told we've been out of the game for so long we lack the knowledge to build them anymore for a competitive price and the foreign energy companies will reap the benefits.

At our expense!

How is it that a brand new (presumably efficient) nuclear power station needs to sell the electricity at twice the price we pay now for it?

What is the price of electricity produced at any other new(ish) nuclear plant in the world?

 

[Butts]

At our expense!

How is it that a brand new (presumably efficient) nuclear power station needs to sell the electricity at twice the price we pay now for it?

What is the price of electricity produced at any other new(ish) nuclear plant in the world?

Because someone else is paying for it's construction ie EDF

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Yes the nationalised French electricity generator from a nation whose economy is allegedly worse than ours is going to build our power stations. Because public sector industry is always rubbish and the way the French run their economy is clearly stupid.....

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 2

 

[ainsworth74]

How is it that a brand new (presumably efficient) nuclear power station needs to sell the electricity at twice the price we pay now for it?

Well I suspect it's because when the thing actually comes online (2025 I believe) the price will have risen to the point that it's no longer selling the electricity at twice the going rate...

Though maybe I'm just being cynical?

Yes the nationalised French electricity generator from a nation whose economy is allegedly worse than ours is going to build our power stations. Because public sector industry is always rubbish and the way the French run their economy is clearly stupid.....

Alternatively it could be in part be because we don't have the capability to build nuclear power stations anymore. We haven't built one in a couple of decades.

 

[Wyvern]

I'd still like to now more about the alternative I mentioned: Guardian:Mini nuclear plants to power 20,000 homes .

Would a number of smaller reactors carry a lower potential risk?

Being closer to the point of use would reduce transmission losses.

Keeping eggs spread out in separate baskets.

 

[Butts]

Yes the nationalised French electricity generator from a nation whose economy is allegedly worse than ours is going to build our power stations. Because public sector industry is always rubbish and the way the French run their economy is clearly stupid.....

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 2

The British contender Centrica pulled out as it required an even higher guaranteed price than EDF achieved

 

[DarloRich]

Things must be bad when even John Major advocate a windfall tax on utilities companies!

Strange that the (future) Baron Osbourne and his city chums aren’t keen on that course of action......................

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Things must be bad when even John Major advocate a windfall tax on utilities companies!

Strange that the (future) Baron Osbourne and his city chums aren’t keen on that course of action......................

How would any of that windfall tax, which goes to a well-known part of the Government, be refunded to the domestic end-users. A reduction in VAT on energy bills, perhaps ?

 

[Zoe]

How would any of that windfall tax, which goes to a well-known part of the Government, be refunded to the domestic end-users. A reduction in VAT on energy bills, perhaps ?

Not possible, VAT is at 5 percent and this is the lowest permitted by the EU (it's already a reduced rate compared to the standard rate which the EU will not permit to be less than 15 percent).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not possible, VAT is at 5 percent and this is the lowest permitted by the EU (it's already a reduced rate compared to the standard rate which the EU will not permit to be less than 15 percent).

Does this mean that any windfall tax will all go to certain Governmental coffers and will not be to the benefit to domestic end-users...:roll:

 

[Aldaniti]

The last few governments have slowly lowered our trousers. The private utility companies are now proceeding to spank us. We allow it and then ask for more. The only hope that it will cease is when the LibLabCon are put out of office.

 

[yorksrob]

Not possible, VAT is at 5 percent and this is the lowest permitted by the EU (it's already a reduced rate compared to the standard rate which the EU will not permit to be less than 15 percent).

Exactly what business the EU has meddling in member states tax affairs is anyones guess.

 

[Zoidberg]

Exactly what business the EU has meddling in member states tax affairs is anyones guess.

Well, implementing VAT according to the rules was one of the conditions to which the UK agreed when joining the EU.

Is it really worse than Purchase Tax was?

 

[cjmillsnun]

As yet they are unable to generate enough power to make a real difference , and are unlikely to be able to for many years.

Only because this country doesn't have the balls to do a big project like the Severn Barage

 

[yorksrob]

Well, implementing VAT according to the rules was one of the conditions to which the UK agreed when joining the EU.

Is it really worse that Purchase Tax was?

It's not really the point whether it‘s worse or not, it‘s the fact that it‘s imposed.

There‘s also the fact that VAT is more regressive than income or property tax, and the fact that we are told that taxation is supposed to be a competency of National governments.

 

[Zoe]

There‘s also the fact that VAT is more regressive than income or property tax, and the fact that we are told that taxation is supposed to be a competency of National governments.

The government are still free not to impose VAT, it's only once it has been imposed that it can't be removed or reduced below the permitted rates. Had it not been previously imposed, there would not be any requirment for VAT on domestic fuel even now.

 

[Butts]

If you want an example of a Utility both privatised and non-privatised Water is a good example.

Unlike England, water in Scotland and I believe Wales remains under effectively what amounts to state control.

Prices are comparable with no huge differences between the two models of operation.

 

[WessexEclectic]

Things must be bad when even John Major advocate a windfall tax on utilities companies!

Strange that the (future) Baron Osbourne and his city chums aren’t keen on that course of action......................

You'd better speak to the current Baroness Worthington. It is her and her chums that have got us into this mess...

 

[yorksrob]

The government are still free not to impose VAT, it's only once it has been imposed that it can't be removed or reduced below the permitted rates. Had it not been previously imposed, there would not be any requirment for VAT on domestic fuel even now.

Sounds like the typical sort of tripe one can expect from European institutions. Either tax is a national competency or it's not. The idea that "it's entirely up to you, but once it's there, you have no choice of whether to get rid of it or not" is anathema to the British constitution (and the concept of one parliament not being able to bind its successors) and anathema to any sort of logic or common sense.

 

[DarloRich]

You'd better speak to the current Baroness Worthington. It is her and her chums that have got us into this mess...

by privitising the utilities and then investing a fraction of the profits back into the transmission and generation infrastructure?

I dont understand the point you make - perhaps you could clarify?

 

[455driver]

If you want an example of a Utility both privatised and non-privatised Water is a good example.

Unlike England, water in Scotland and I believe Wales remains under effectively what amounts to state control.

Prices are comparable with no huge differences between the two models of operation.

Really?

So why am I paying £1057.34* this year?
Oh that is after the Government saw fit to give me a £50 rebate.

* Anyone else paying anything close to this?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Really?

So why am I paying £1057.34* this year?
Oh that is after the Government saw fit to give me a £50 rebate.

* Anyone else paying anything close to this?

Our combined dual-fuel Gas and Electricity bill from British Gas is more than £290 more than the figure that you state above. However, both my wife (72) and I (68) are retired and since my stroke in July 2012, I need constant heat at all times when at home (usuallly in my study on a permanent 24-hour connection to the excellent website of RailUK, where I am possibly kept warm by much "hot air" expressed in some of the postings on threads on the website..).

Every property is not the same in size and if my wife and I had to live in a small modern compact house rather that the 18th century rural location five-bedroom property in which we live (6th bedroom converted to my study), should well imagine that our heating bills would be lower. At our own cost, we changed over from an oil-fired heating system and with advice from a consultant knowledgeable about properties such as ours, mindful of local authority restrictions, work was carried out to ensure the walls, windows and stone-tiled roofing areas were all as fully heat conserving as possible. Of course, solar panels of the roofs of properties such as ours are frowned upon by the local authority for aesthetic reasons. So short of attempting to hoodwink the local authority by installing a small wind farm in the paddock at the rear of the property, there is little else that I can do.

 

[bb21]

Really?

So why am I paying £1057.34* this year?
Oh that is after the Government saw fit to give me a £50 rebate.

* Anyone else paying anything close to this?

Well, I paid Npower £552 last year for my fuel and accrued a £110 surplus in my account. That said, I am rarely back in the house before 2100 and often only stay there for four days a week.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Really?

So why am I paying £1057.34* this year?
Oh that is after the Government saw fit to give me a £50 rebate.

* Anyone else paying anything close to this?

Giving an expensive price still says nothing about how it compares to Scotland or Wales...

 

[Seacook]

Our combined dual-fuel Gas and Electricity bill from British Gas is more than £290 more than the figure that you state above. However, both my wife (72) and I (68) are retired and since my stroke in July 2012, I need constant heat at all times when at home (usuallly in my study on a permanent 24-hour connection to the excellent website of RailUK, where I am possibly kept warm by much "hot air" expressed in some of the postings on threads on the website..).
.

I understood that 455Driver's bill was for water, not gas or electricity. It was a lot more than the £375.07 I paid South Staffs Water this year.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I understood that 455Driver's bill was for water, not gas or electricity. It was a lot more than the £375.07 I paid South Staffs Water this year.

I know, but at the time of the pre-dawn when I made my posting, I felt like getting some annoyance "off my chest" about ANY utility bills....and felt much better for doing so afterwards.

You will note that I was not alone in this, as bb21, our revered and highly respected moderator (and football expert) also made a posting about his Npower fuel bill.

 

[bb21]

I understood that 455Driver's bill was for water, not gas or electricity. It was a lot more than the £375.07 I paid South Staffs Water this year.

I did notice that prior discussion was about the water industry, but a grand is a lot to pay for your water rates, so I naturally assumed that it was the other ones that he was talking about. My annual water bill is only £140. If I got the wrong end of the schtick then I apologise.

(Had to emphasise that a few times to show the scale of it.)

You will note that I was not alone in this, as bb21, our revered and highly respected moderator (and football expert) also made a posting about his Npower fuel bill.

Thanks, Paul.

I am neither an expert in football matters, nor do I consider myself highly respected. I just do a job here and have an interest in football matters.

 

[jon0844]

I see that all the energy companies are now trying (again) to lock people in to the recently inflated tariffs - some for the next four years.

It might be worthwhile, given energy costs are likely to keep rising for many more years to come, but I'm not totally convinced - and if it continues to get all political, we might just see some cheaper deals that will make people regret fixing a high rate for any time at all.

Personally, I obviously dislike increasing fuel costs.. especially as I work from home now and that means the heating is on a lot of the day in the week at the moment (so that means higher cost + higher usage). However, I accept that for the benefits of home working.

 

[radamfi]

I wouldn't recommend fixing at much higher than the lowest variable tariff, but many people are probably paying even more than the fixed tariff. There isn't that much risk if you go for one without exit penalties.