London Terminals and LUL

[swt_passenger]

No. There never was a thameslink dual arrangement for passengers going on the LMR to Moorgate.

Tickets were only valid on the few trains that ran from Kentish Town (and north thereof) to Moorgate (LM)

You sure about that?

The TfL document quoted above (in post #4) describes it as dual availability on page 63, just past the explanation of the Finsbury Park stuff.

The last publicly available NFM section L also had it in the text as such:

"Tickets from these stations [Bedford to West Hampstead ]
to London Thameslink, Farringdon Und, Barbican Und, Moorgate Und,
City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge, Elephant & Castle,
are valid on London Underground services between a First Capital Connect
interchange point (including West Hampstead Thameslink, Kentish Town
and St Pancras International) and the final destination."

DfT and FCC definitely took the trouble to explain that Moorgate via Farringdon and Barbican, from the Thameslink route, was end dated (turns out though it was 24 months, not a year).

I won't derail this thread by adding a load of extra links, but it seems to me that if both DfT and FCC have explained that dual availability ceased from a certain date, then that also creates a precedent that dual availabilty can be removed, whatever the previous historical justification. Which seems to have been your earlier question.

 

[sheff1]

Im unsure what the dysfunctional railway has to do with it seeing as this arrangement has been around for years and the OP was caught by a TfL revenue inspector.

... and there was me thinking TfL's remit included railways of both the underground and overground variety .

I am also unsure as to how can you be 'caught' when you hold a valid ticket.

 

[Clip]

... and there was me thinking TfL's remit included railways of both the underground and overground variety .

I am also unsure as to how can you be 'caught' when you hold a valid ticket.

but that does nto make it dysfunctional which is what you were claiming. And yes I wrote caught but meant stopped, if you were psychic you would have realised that.

 

[sheff1]

if you were psychic you would have realised that.

but that does nto make it dysfunctional which is what you were claiming.

I think it does. Dysfunctional = Malfunctioning. If a pssenger holding a valid ticket is issued with a PF because an inspector does not know/understand the T&Cs appertaining to the ticket he is inspecting, that sounds like a pretty straightforward malfunction to me.

Yes, in this case the PF should be withdrawn, but why should the passenger have to suffer the hassle / stress involved just because the ticket checking system in place is not functioning correctly .... and, of course, some passengers in the same situation may believe the inspector and pay up unnecessarily.

 

[Mojo]

Im unsure what the dysfunctional railway has to do with it seeing as this arrangement has been around for years and the OP was caught by a TfL revenue inspector.

... and there was me thinking TfL's remit included railways of both the underground and overground variety .

I am also unsure as to how can you be 'caught' when you hold a valid ticket.

For what it's worth; London Underground has its own Revenue Control department and its own Prosecutions department which only work on LU trains and stations served by LU. TfL Revenue staff only work on buses and deal with offences which take place on buses, and it's a similar story for London Overground. They all interact at 2nd stage Penalty fares appeals as the second stage appeal is to the Community Safety, Enforcement and Policing (Csep) Manager in TfL, however there is a difference in approaches taken for both inspection and prosecutions on LU and buses.

 

[Clip]

I think it does. Dysfunctional = Malfunctioning. If a pssenger holding a valid ticket is issued with a PF because an inspector does not know/understand the T&Cs appertaining to the ticket he is inspecting, that sounds like a pretty straightforward malfunction to me.

Yes, in this case the PF should be withdrawn, but why should the passenger have to suffer the hassle / stress involved just because the ticket checking system in place is not functioning correctly .... and, of course, some passengers in the same situation may believe the inspector and pay up unnecessarily.

That isnt the railways fault though(any railway ) that is purely that inspector not understanding his job.


Mojo- I didnt realise they each had their dedicated teams - its very rare that I see any of them unless at Stockwell station where they always pull me up with my pass

 

[34D]

You sure about that?

The TfL document quoted above (in post #4) describes it as dual availability on page 63, just past the explanation of the Finsbury Park stuff.

The last publicly available NFM section L also had it in the text as such:

"Tickets from these stations [Bedford to West Hampstead ]
to London Thameslink, Farringdon Und, Barbican Und, Moorgate Und,
City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge, Elephant & Castle,
are valid on London Underground services between a First Capital Connect
interchange point (including West Hampstead Thameslink, Kentish Town
and St Pancras International) and the final destination."

DfT and FCC definitely took the trouble to explain that Moorgate via Farringdon and Barbican, from the Thameslink route, was end dated (turns out though it was 24 months, not a year).

I won't derail this thread by adding a load of extra links, but it seems to me that if both DfT and FCC have explained that dual availability ceased from a certain date, then that also creates a precedent that dual availabilty can be removed, whatever the previous historical justification. Which seems to have been your earlier question.

What I meant was that a London Terminals or London St Panc (from the north, via Kentish Town) had no validity beyond St P. Unless the origin also had a permitted route via Finsbury Park of course.

My words were completely wrong

 

[mark2606]

Just to let you know, my appeal was successful at the first stage.

Thanks for all your comments and help.

 

[maniacmartin]

Great news. Thanks for coming back and letting us know.

 

[sonic2009]

Just to let you know, my appeal was successful at the first stage.

Thanks for all your comments and help.

Great to hear.