Door open buttons when alighting

[sheff1]

I'm pretty sure the Vienna metro works like that - you press the button when coming into the station and the colour of the button changes (so you don't end up mashing the button!). Then, when the train stops, the door opens.

Yes, standard procedure on many metro sytems across Europe and also in use on an increasing number of trains as well.

In some cities, they have gone one step further and the doors begin to open before the train has come to a complete halt which saves another couple of seconds at each stop.

 

[jon0844]

Older tube stock has been able to open doors when still moving for years, but I doubt the new replacements can.

(IME both the A and C stock have had doors open before the train is at a stand, but I doubt the S stock can!).

 

[pjnathanail]

Is this seen as a good thing or a safety hazard? There is a clear benefit from reducing dwell times but of course it potentially leaves doors open/closing in the event of a sudden no call and reacceleration

 

[Domh245]

The older stocks can open their doors at low speeds, so long as they are in a CSDE loop.

 

[samuelmorris]

Oh right, so it can't be a safety feature as Desiros don't have this 'problem'.

I was going to say, I'm sure I've done this on a 360 before.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Well, I'm a 'finger on the button before guard release' operative. When I'm coming back from Preston on a 390 I do this, and the door will always open on the TM's release

Sorry to be a massive pedant, but it's the driver who releases the doors on 390's (and 221's), not the TM.

 

[Starmill]

Sorry to be a massive pedant, but it's the driver who releases the doors on 390's (and 221's), not the TM.

Ugh. Having to learn all this (others may question why I feel compelled to try) is a bother. It seems the driver door release on these stocks is a bit weird really... what's the benefit of it? Do 222s have it? And worse, with 220/221s it seems the driver actually closes the doors too, on signal from the TM! But a 390, the TM operates the close normally. Who'd have thought there was such a similarity between a 390 and a 378? Though I have no idea what process is on other types of Electrostar, we don't get many around here.

Then you have DOO where the whole lot HAS to be done by the driver... and pacers and sprinters where the driver has no control of passenger doors whatsoever (if that's correct?).

Talk about 'standard procedure' humph.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Ugh. Having to learn all this.

Yes, it's very inconsistent how different types of train require the TM or Driver to control the doors. I personally think it should all be down to the TM, with no driver input needed.

There was an incident a few years ago at Bristol Temple M, where the driver of a Voyager didn't pull up far enough along the platform, and released the doors with part of the rear carriage still off the platform. Obviously the driver should have stopped in the right place, but I feel it highlights the fact the TM is unable to check whether the doors are on the platform, before the driver releases them, due to 220/221s (and also 390s) not having local door operation. I know on 222s, the driver releases the doors, but the TM has full control of them closing, so doesn't have to 1-2 the driver on the bell buzzer.

 

[MCR247]

Is this seen as a good thing or a safety hazard? There is a clear benefit from reducing dwell times but of course it potentially leaves doors open/closing in the event of a sudden no call and reacceleration

We're only talking a couple of mph here, the Berlin S-Bahn does this, and when I pressed the button for the doors to open, and they opened before the train had completely stopped, I got my foot on the ground just as the train stopped, so there isn't any safety hazard really as it takes a couple of seconds for the doors to open anyway

 

[AlexS]

On class 222s the driver releases the doors to the guard - the guard's buttons don't arm till the driver operates theirs. The driver can open and close the doors directly from the cab but is not permitted to in passenger service.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes, it's very inconsistent how different types of train require the TM or Driver to control the doors. I personally think it should all be down to the TM, with no driver input needed.

You could argue it's quicker and safer for the driver to release the doors, with the conductor/guard/train manager closing them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We're only talking a couple of mph here, the Berlin S-Bahn does this, and when I pressed the button for the doors to open, and they opened before the train had completely stopped, I got my foot on the ground just as the train stopped, so there isn't any safety hazard really as it takes a couple of seconds for the doors to open anyway

Paris Metro doors can be released when the train has slowed down to a few mph and quite a few people can alight before the train has come to a complete stop. The door opening process is fairly consistent between the 1960s stock and the new stock except for the 1960s stock having handles instead of buttons.

 

[voyagerdude220]

On class 222s the driver releases the doors to the guard - the guard's buttons don't arm till the driver operates theirs. The driver can open and close the doors directly from the cab but is not permitted to in passenger service.

Thanks for that AlexS. So the driver basically gives the TM permission to operate the doors, before the TM does so themself?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Just as a matter of interest, but not heavy rail, on Blackpool's LRT 'trams' if you press a non illuminated door button, gong sounds /stopping light comes on a few seconds later.
As soon as the tram stops and the doors buttons illuminate, that door/s opens.
Easy!

 

[Domh245]

Just as a matter of interest, but not heavy rail, on Blackpool's LRT 'trams' if you press a non illuminated door button, gong sounds /stopping light comes on a few seconds later.
As soon as the tram stops and the doors buttons illuminate, that door/s opens.
Easy!

That is common to all the Bombardier Flexity trams that I have seen, plus many others

 

[tsr]

That is common to all the Bombardier Flexity trams that I have seen, plus many others

CR4000s have a bit of a complicated system where the door button is both a request stop button and also remembers the door needs to open, or so my experiments with the system show. There are different colours of lights - plus patterns of "flashes" - on the buttons to indicate when the stop has been requested, and whether or not the door is going to open on the side requested. Needless to say (if you know Tramlink), this sort of thing is hardly ever needed, as the driver generally releases all the doors - even off-peak. However, this does not always happen - I recently saw this when I expected the doors to open, but I had to push the specific door button instead, on a lunchtime service at Merton Park (Eastbound).

The driver does not need to open or close all doors simultaneously, either, so someone late for the tram only needs to have one door opened for them (this happens a fair bit).

 

[Domh245]

Yes, I am very familiar with Tramlink. The door buttons are surrounded by green LEDs which flash once a door button has been pressed (accompanied by 4 red LEDs when the button is pressed). As mentioned elsewhere, when these are flashing the doors on that side will all automatically open, even if the driver chooses only to unlock the doors, which is a rare occurrence nowadays. However it still happens and that is one of the reasons that when I come in to wimbledon and I am stood near the doors, I will always mash the button to ensure that even if the driver chooses only to release the door, I will still be able to get away quickly. When the doors are released the LEDs are a solid green, and when the button is pushed, they will open (á la National Rail). As for closing, normally they will stay open until the doors are closed by the driver, but on some trams, particularly at terminii and long stops, the doors will start ot closae automatically after a period of time (á la S Stock) but these will not be coordinated, I think it is done by how much time has passed by since the door was last used. The door can still be opened until the light goes out. As you mention as well, there is a selective re-open, which opens the far door at the end of the selected car so any latecomers can run on to the tram through the door often without using their oyster card!

 

[Barn]

For some reason, and I know it's irrational, the trend of "button mashing" really annoys me.

I can live with somebody holding a button down, but repeatedly "mashing" it is unseemly. We're supposed to be British; we should wait soberly for the button to light up and then press it once and exit our trains with a degree of decorum.

 

[jon0844]

Decorum doesn't really feature in the daily commute much!

There's one day when the commute was like that though. 7/7.

Everyone having to walk to their train station as there were no tubes or buses.

Then, in my case, queuing patiently at Finsbury Park for shuttle services to get people home - rather like returning to the station after a football match.

Nobody causing any fuss. Nobody running or pushing in. Everyone realising just what had happened that day and reflecting on it.

Of course, it didn't take long for it to return to the hustle and bustle and the usual commuter rage in the coming days/weeks.

 

[island]

For some reason, and I know it's irrational, the trend of "button mashing" really annoys me.

I can live with somebody holding a button down, but repeatedly "mashing" it is unseemly. We're supposed to be British; we should wait soberly for the button to light up and then press it once and exit our trains with a degree of decorum.

Worse again is on 390s where the step has to unfold, so people push the button, wait a second and a half, then assume it hasn't worked and start hammering it, before it opens a couple of seconds later (which it would of course have done anyhow).

 

[jon0844]

And the 395s that take an age to open after the button has been pressed.

 

[sheff1]

I can live with somebody holding a button down, but repeatedly "mashing" it is unseemly. We're supposed to be British; we should wait soberly for the button to light up and then press it once and exit our trains with a degree of decorum.

Wait for the button to light on some Pacers round here and you will soon be on your way to the next stop

 

[samuelmorris]

And the 395s that take an age to open after the button has been pressed.

Agreed, this caught me out the first couple of times. Even Desiros aren't instantaneous.

 

[jon0844]

Agreed, this caught me out the first couple of times. Even Desiros aren't instantaneous.

I can't remember if the door opening warning goes off straight away when you press the button, or when the doors actually begin to open. If the former, it's not so bad as at least you've got some form of audible confirmation (and maybe the lights flash to give a visual indicator?).

 

[moogal]

There was one type of train (think it was one of SWT's older sliding door varieties) where I got caught out by needed to hold the door button down to open it, as opposed to just giving it a quick press. Not sure what it was, but having not come across it before I was beginning to think the button wasn't working!

 

[jon0844]

The old style buttons on a FCC 317/1 require a firm holding, not just a tap. That catches a lot of people out. Usually it's a short press. Nothing. Another short press. Nothing. Then a longer, more frustrated, press or a rapid run through the carriage to another door where someone else has already opened it.

Not a common thing, and certainly not during rush hour with regular commuters, but I've seen it happen a few times over the years.

If I'm nearby, I will say 'hold it down' - I'm not that nasty to just sit there sniggering!

 

[Muzer]

I am at a loss to work out any safety benefit of not allowing the button to be pressed before it lights.

Perhaps someone thought a passenger might be leaning on the button and accidentally open the door? I guess the new set up might prevent that, assuming the person doesn't move and re-press it anyway!

Perhaps it's for people on the outside - eg people holding down door buttons only to have the train unexpectedly move (eg if it's coupling, or whatever) - to discourage pressing it before it lights maybe?

But yeah, I've never tried it on 444s/450s, but holding it before it lights certainly works on SWT 158s/159s.

 

[jon0844]

Quite often FCC services will be announced before the train is ready (usually a train in the suburban shed awaiting a driver). As such, people will go and try the buttons to get on - but it's not yet open.

And that can include a train that is locked, sometimes with people on it, to join up to another. I am sure people will still try and get caught out by it jolting back.

I don't think not having them lit up would make any difference. Certainly on a 317, there are no lights!

 

[455driver]

There was one type of train (think it was one of SWT's older sliding door varieties) where I got caught out by needed to hold the door button down to open it, as opposed to just giving it a quick press. Not sure what it was, but having not come across it before I was beginning to think the button wasn't working!

That would be the ex 508 coach in the 455/7s, you know the ones with the signs that says "press and hold button to open door".

I cant see what the problem is, if the button is not lit then pressing it wont open the door, if the button is lit then pressing it will open the door, not exactly rocket science is it! :roll:

 

[district]

And the 395s that take an age to open after the button has been pressed.

This was discussed on this thread from 2011.

 

[Starmill]

That would be the ex 508 coach in the 455/7s, you know the ones with the signs that says "press and hold button to open door".

I cant see what the problem is, if the button is not lit then pressing it wont open the door, if the button is lit then pressing it will open the door, not exactly rocket science is it! :roll:

"When illuminated press to open"

More or less ignored than

"I have read and agree to the Terms and Conditions"

??