East Coast franchising - What is happening?

[HST Power]

I've read so many conflicting statements and articles I'm struggling to figure out the future of the franchise.

Is it still being sold back into private hands, or will DOR continue to run operations?

Or are we still waiting on a statement from the Transport Department?

This may have been done quite recently - apologies if so.

 

[tbtc]

It's going to be tendered, just like most other franchises in the next few years. It's likely to be the first on that list but don't know when - DOR were only ever a "short term" measure.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's being refranchised. The new franchise starts in early 2015 with the decision being made in late 2014. You might find this document interesting and also this statement.

 

[WatcherZero]

Government still hasnt agreed a deal for the Great Western extension, only 2 months left until the franchise end date. Its taken them so long to do this one you worry about all the other short extensions they have to negotiate.

 

[HST Power]

It's being refranchised. The new franchise starts in early 2015 with the decision being made in late 2014. You might find this document interesting and also this statement.

Many thanks for those links, very useful. Interesting to see Southern merging with Thameslink and Great Northern as well.

 

[TheWalrus]

I'm not in any way pro-renationalisation but DOR seem to be doig a good job, why not let them continue?

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not in any way pro-renationalisation but DOR seem to be doig a good job, why not let them continue?

because that then suggests that the whole franchising strucutre is actually a big steaming pile of manure

 

[ModernRailways]

I'm not in any way pro-renationalisation but DOR seem to be doig a good job, why not let them continue?

DOR haven't really been doing a good job.

They haven't really done much other than change the First Class. Trains are more reliable but still break down daily. Most other companies would do just the same and more. Heck, even National Express could have had they not of messed up with their finances!

What else have they done other than very minor things?

 

[YorkshireRider]

Yes, coming off the back of National depressed would make anyone look good. They have done OK though.

 

[ModernRailways]

Oh definitely! They've done a great job with what they've got, and they've really helped to improve the East Coast Mainline whole image!

 

[Eagle]

I'm not in any way pro-renationalisation but DOR seem to be doing a good job, why not let them continue?

Because it's the law that franchises need to be relet, and DOR (as far as I'm aware) can't bid for franchises.

 

[Lee_Again]

I live in Stevenage and use EC all the time, almost every day. And not just for trips in to London but long distance too. Mostly in First but the odd trip in Standard.

Standard is Standard so not much change. It's good to see the free coffee for season tickets holders though; nice touch.

In First I will always prefer the Restaurant style employed by GNER. For me this was the railways at their best. However, for short journies, this was of little interest.

I have to say that in the last few years, and especially the past 6 months, the levels of service in First has improved significantly. I can't remember the last time I wasn't offered a drink or snack between King's Cross and Stevenage. This rarely happened in the GNER days.

And rather annoyingly I quite like the food. Not enough quantity for a main meal but the quality is good. Beans with the breakfast is my only complaint but beyond that all the food it's great.

The francise will be replaced soon because it has to but the guys and girls have done a great job. NX were a joke and yes, it should be easy to beat, but you still have to beat it and I think they have.

The trains and route is in dire need of upgrading and this is happen soon. Hitchin done already (that will make a massive difference on it's own) with Finsbury Park and Peterborough not far behind. York is better and with some more robust wires the whole route will be much improved. Too late for this lot but somebody will benefit. And with IEP and HS2 on the horizon the outlook is good.

Except for one thing...and this if for another thread...adding Thameslink to the southern part of the route will ruin all these improvements. There is a solution (IMHO) but as I said, anothetr thread maybe...

 

[Eagle]

Except for one thing...and this if for another thread...but adding Thameslink to the southern part of the route will ruin all these improvements. There is a solution (IMHO) but as I said, anothetr thread maybe...

Nothing is being added. The number of trains on the Great Northern is staying about the same. It's just that some of those trains will now be extended to South London rather than terminating at King's Cross as they do at the moment.

 

[tbtc]

I'm not in any way pro-renationalisation but DOR seem to be doig a good job, why not let them continue?

What determines "a good job"?

And, if we accept that DOR have met certain thresholds (are you talking a puncuality target, a passenger satisfaction target?) then presumably every other TOC would be guaranteed to retain their current franchise beyond its expiry date if they met theirs too?

 

[TheWalrus]

Aren't EC turning a profit? That's a good thing. If someone else can do a better job then yes it should be relet.

 

[Eagle]

Aren't EC turning a profit? That's a good thing.

Ah, but is that a good thing for the passengers though? Or are they only turning a profit because they're not spending/investing as much as they could?

 

[Lee_Again]

Nothing is being added.

Go to St Pancras on most evenings and you'll see what is being added - the delays.

Remember, the TL core will increase to something link 24tph. Any delay will have trains backing up on to the slow lines south of Finsbury Park.

 

[Eagle]

24tph is the maximum at the height of the peak. Most of the time it'll be 16tph. Of which only 8tph go to the GN.

 

[Goatboy]

What else have they done other than very minor things?

Not pay dividends to shareholders, which is a fairly good start for a taxpayer funded public service operation.

 

[northernchris]

Because it's the law that franchises need to be relet, and DOR (as far as I'm aware) can't bid for franchises.

I'm no fan of East Coast but I do think the rules should be changed so the government are able to bid for rail franchises (and bus contracts) in the same way governments of other EU countries do, so as long as they are able to compete competitively on bids.

As for East Coast doing a good job, if you look at the performance standards they report at stations (the online version is still on March!) they set themselves very low targets that they will easily be achieved. From memory, their 'people' target is only 79% and I think the 'train' target is just 80%.

 

[43074]

Nothing is being added. The number of trains on the Great Northern is staying about the same. It's just that some of those trains will now be extended to South London rather than terminating at King's Cross as they do at the moment.

24tph is the maximum at the height of the peak. Most of the time it'll be 16tph. Of which only 8tph go to the GN.

Currently the GN Suburban service from Kings Cross is 4tph (2tph to Cambridge 1 semi fast and 1 slow and 2tph to Peterborough 1 semi fast and 1 slow), excluding the Cambridge Cruisers which will continue to operate as now after Thameslink opens. 4tph to 8tph is quite a substantial increase...

 

[Jay]

Heard talk of an hourly East Coast Nottingham to King Cross service come December timetable.

Might just be talk though

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Heard talk of an hourly East Coast Nottingham to King Cross service come December timetable.
Might just be talk though

East Coast don't have any rights to run services to Nottingham.
Unless it's because of engineering work diversions (but I can't think what they might be).
Otherwise an application would have to go to ORR and would certainly be objected to by EMT as "primarily abstractive".

Then there's the stock question. There isn't any, without stealing from an existing flow.

If Nottingham is part of the new ICEC franchise spec from 2015, that's another thing entirely.
But I doubt it. Except maybe when the MML is being electrified and EMT can't run its full quota (like Project Rio to Manchester during WCRM).

 

[swt_passenger]

Currently the GN Suburban service from Kings Cross is 4tph (2tph to Cambridge 1 semi fast and 1 slow and 2tph to Peterborough 1 semi fast and 1 slow), excluding the Cambridge Cruisers which will continue to operate as now after Thameslink opens. 4tph to 8tph is quite a substantial increase...

But aren't the other 4 of the Thameslink services intended to be replacing four all stations from Welwyn, currently running into Moorgate? So they are already running...

 

[43074]

But aren't the other 4 of the Thameslink services intended to be replacing four all stations from Welwyn, currently running into Moorgate? So they are already running...

Could you direct me to some provisional service plans? Haven't heard of these before now.

 

[Eagle]

I'm no fan of East Coast but I do think the rules should be changed so the government are able to bid for rail franchises (and bus contracts) in the same way governments of other EU countries do, so as long as they are able to compete competitively on bids.

I suspect that even if they could, the Government probably wouldn't bid for any franchises.

 

[D365]

Could you direct me to some provisional service plans? Haven't heard of these before now.

Definitely been planned for a long time, many here will tell you. Note that the Welwyn services will be formed of shorter 8-car units (replacing the current 3/6-cars into Moorgate, although some supplementary service may be retained) rather than full length 12-car units.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Definitely been planned for a long time, many here will tell you. Note that the Welwyn services will be formed of shorter 8-car units (replacing the current 3/6-cars into Moorgate, although some supplementary service may be retained) rather than full length 12-car units.

So what's happening to the Moorgate branch?

 

[tbtc]

Aren't EC turning a profit? That's a good thing. If someone else can do a better job then yes it should be relet.

GNER paid a premium to Westminster for running the ECML franchise.

National Express paid a premium to Westminster for running the ECML franchise.

The fact that DOR are paying a premium to Westminster for running the ECML franchise is not in itself proof that they are doing a good job - we need to compare it to the premiums that other companies could pay (even after any shareholder profit).

 

[swt_passenger]

Could you direct me to some provisional service plans? Haven't heard of these before now.

You need the London and SE RUS from 2011:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...and south east route utilisation strategy.pdf

Sections 5.12 and 5.13 deal with Thameslink on the north side. Table 5.2 showed the journey origin and destination pairs at that time, but the destinations south of the river are subject to change (especially now the Wimbledon/Sutton service stays), but the GN and MML aspects are unlikely to be any different.

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So what's happening to the Moorgate branch?

Nothing much. It just gets more trains to the Hertford Loop. The current 6 tracking work north of Finsbury Park is related to future service patterns as well, IIRC.