Racist Woman on Croydon tram given community sentence

[jon0844]

Has any newspaper/reporter managed to write an article on this...using interviews with such health tourists? I can't say that I know much about it.
Also, I wonder what the comparable costs are for British ex-pats who use the Spanish health service for example (given that there are about 1/3 million of them - I think - and many are of a 'certain age')

I think the article above showed that the problem is quite well hidden given the ability to just pretend to be someone else.

 

[Deerfold]

Over 14% according to the Ministry of justice which was in January so as it's rising everyday 15% is probably an underestimation as of today.

15% of 84,000 = 12,600.

Even using your figures to say that all these thousands upon thousands of foreigners in jail is not a cause for concern is liberalism at its finest.

I'm assuming you mean "every day" rather than "everyday" but the figure is not rising - it fell between 2006 and 2011 and has then remained constant - which suggests no extra criminals coming in as immigration is rising (if it is) .

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...MqfEk6pJKE2rqLrXlLM5oYg&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWM (page 9)

 

[Johnuk123]

Has any newspaper/reporter managed to write an article on this...using interviews with such health tourists? I can't say that I know much about it.
Also, I wonder what the comparable costs are for British ex-pats who use the Spanish health service for example (given that there are about 1/3 million of them - I think - and many are of a 'certain age')

If you live in Spain and your ex-UK your healthcare costs are reclaimed by the Spanish Govt.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Health tourism is such a small figure in the context of the whole NHS budget that it isn't worth bothering about. It does make a nice political card to play to get a certain wedge of society on side when things start getting difficult in government though.

 

[transmanche]

Well I'm sure the prison service know better than me about the logistics of it all but would you not agree that around 13,000 foriegn nationals in British prisons is a cause for concern?

What concerns me is that fact there are around 92,000 people in prison in GB - not their nationality. That's more than 150 people in prison for every 100,000 population - the second highest in Europe.

According to the MoJ, the prison population in E&W on 31 Mar 2013 was 83,769, of which 10,275 were foreign nationals. And there are also around 8,000 prisoners in Scotland. But it's not just as simple as saying 'Johnny Foreigner is a bit of a bad egg' - look behind the figures to get some context.

One of the largest groups of foreign national prisoners are Irish citizens. In most other aspects, Irish citizens are not treated as foreigners - but here they are. Secondly there are large numbers of people (especially from NI) who profess Irish citizenship rather than British citizenship - again under other circumstances, they would be counted as British nationals.

Then you have to look at the fact that a foreign national is more likely to receive a prison sentence - where a British national might receive a community sentence for the same crime.

And then consider that not all of those foreign nationals are actually immigrants. We have one of the world's busiest international hub airports; a place that's used by drug smugglers to get drugs into Europe - we catch them, we keep them.

And did you know that there are over 1,000 British nationals in prison abroad - for just drugs crimes alone?

My concern is we send too many people to jail full stop. And the government response is simply to build bigger jails, rather than tackle the root causes. Such as 1/4 of all prisoners had been in care, nearly 2/3 had truanted from school, over 1/3 had a criminal in the family, nearly 1/2 had no qualifications. Solve those problems and stop people getting into a life of crime in the first place.

So no, the proportion of foreign nationals in UK jails does not concern me at all.

 

[Oswyntail]

....
Even using your figures to say that all these thousands upon thousands of foreigners in jail is not a cause for concern is liberalism at its finest.

I refer you to Transmache's excellent analysis above

 

[Antman]

What concerns me is that fact there are around 92,000 people in prison in GB - not their nationality. That's more than 150 people in prison for every 100,000 population - the second highest in Europe.

According to the MoJ, the prison population in E&W on 31 Mar 2013 was 83,769, of which 10,275 were foreign nationals. And there are also around 8,000 prisoners in Scotland. But it's not just as simple as saying 'Johnny Foreigner is a bit of a bad egg' - look behind the figures to get some context.

One of the largest groups of foreign national prisoners are Irish citizens. In most other aspects, Irish citizens are not treated as foreigners - but here they are. Secondly there are large numbers of people (especially from NI) who profess Irish citizenship rather than British citizenship - again under other circumstances, they would be counted as British nationals.

Then you have to look at the fact that a foreign national is more likely to receive a prison sentence - where a British national might receive a community sentence for the same crime.

And then consider that not all of those foreign nationals are actually immigrants. We have one of the world's busiest international hub airports; a place that's used by drug smugglers to get drugs into Europe - we catch them, we keep them.

And did you know that there are over 1,000 British nationals in prison abroad - for just drugs crimes alone?

My concern is we send too many people to jail full stop. And the government response is simply to build bigger jails, rather than tackle the root causes. Such as 1/4 of all prisoners had been in care, nearly 2/3 had truanted from school, over 1/3 had a criminal in the family, nearly 1/2 had no qualifications. Solve those problems and stop people getting into a life of crime in the first place.

So no, the proportion of foreign nationals in UK jails does not concern me at all.

Whether we send too many people to prison is a completely seperate issue, there is no escaping the fact that a significant number are foriegn nationals, any why do you say they are more likely to be jailed than Brits? Do you have any evidence to support this bizzare claim?

Its inevitable that drug smugglers are going to end up in foriegn jails

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

If you live in Spain and your ex-UK your healthcare costs are reclaimed by the Spanish Govt.

Really? Didn't know that! Is that something all EU govts do (under an EU arrangement) or is it just Spain? Anyone know?

 

[transmanche]

Whether we send too many people to prison is a completely seperate issue, there is no escaping the fact that a significant number are foriegn nationals

And once again you manage to ignore all the facts presented before you in favour of a meaningless slogan.

Perhaps you ought to be more worried that 95.4% of the prison population is male, and only 4.6% female. Seeing that men must be responsible for the vast majority of crime, maybe we ought to deport all men from the UK.

You see, statistics are meaningless without context - especially to those who are prejudiced.

 

[Antman]

And once again you manage to ignore all the facts presented before you in favour of a meaningless slogan.

Perhaps you ought to be more worried that 95.4% of the prison population is male, and only 4.6% female. Seeing that men must be responsible for the vast majority of crime, maybe we ought to deport all men from the UK.

You see, statistics are meaningless without context - especially to those who are prejudiced.

What facts? All you keep doing is changing the subject and throwing in emotive words like prejudiced:roll:

 

[asylumxl]

What facts? All you keep doing is changing the subject and throwing in emotive words like prejudiced:roll:

Says the man continuously sprouting right wing propaganda.

It's a free country, so you're more than welcome to go somewhere else if you don't like it .

 

[transmanche]

What facts? All you keep doing is changing the subject and throwing in emotive words like prejudiced:roll:

Er, you are the one who brought up the subject of foreign national in British jails - not me!

I've provided you with plenty of facts and put them into an appropriate context for analysis. Unfortunately you can't manage to see through the fog of your own prejudice. You have clearly fixed your opinion in advance of reading the facts and nothing will dissuade from believing you are right - i.e. you have pre-judged.

 

[Antman]

Says the man continuously sprouting right wing propaganda.

It's a free country, so you're more than welcome to go somewhere else if you don't like it .

Right wing propaganda? Oh for pitys sake!

Clearly any meaningful debate on this subject is out of the question:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Er, you are the one who brought up the subject of foreign national in British jails - not me!

I've provided you with plenty of facts and put them into an appropriate context for analysis. Unfortunately you can't manage to see through the fog of your own prejudice. You have clearly fixed your opinion in advance of reading the facts and nothing will dissuade from believing you are right - i.e. you have pre-judged.

You're the one with the fixed agenda:roll:

 

[asylumxl]

Clearly any meaningful debate on this subject is out of the question:roll:

If you're in the equation that seems quite true. Finally, we can agree on something!

 

[transmanche]

You're the one with the fixed agenda:roll:

Really? I've read the populist tabloid-esque slogans you've posted and then gone and done a bit of research myself - to form my own informed opinion. And I've found that what you've posted is at best somewhat ill-informed - and at worse, a perversion of the facts in order to promote a baseless myth.

 

[bb21]

I wonder amid all these talks about health tourism and the like, how many on here actually understands what is required in order to get free NHS treatment? It's not as if one can just get a visa and then book himself into a hospital.

 

[asylumxl]

I wonder amid all these talks about health tourism and the like, how many on here actually understands what is required in order to get free NHS treatment? It's not as if one can just get a visa and then book himself into a hospital.

In all honesty, the whole health tourism thing seems like a myth.

Honestly, it takes long enough for British nationals to get seen on the NHS. Who would willingly subject themselves to such torture?

 

[Antman]

Really? I've read the populist tabloid-esque slogans you've posted and then gone and done a bit of research myself - to form my own informed opinion. And I've found that what you've posted is at best somewhat ill-informed - and at worse, a perversion of the facts in order to promote a baseless myth.

Why do keep mentioning the tabloids? I don't read them and haven't done for years!

Like most of your points, its laughable

 

[Oswyntail]

Why do keep mentioning the tabloids? I don't read them and haven't done for years!

Like most of your points, its laughable

IIRC, Mr Ford has stated earlier that he gets his information from the internet

 

[transmanche]

Why do keep mentioning the tabloids? I don't read them and haven't done for years!

I said that you posted "populist tabloid-esque slogans". English comprehension seems to be a problem for you, in that you only read what you want to see.

IIRC, Mr Ford has stated earlier that he gets his information from the internet

I wonder if that includes thesun.co.uk and dailymail.co.uk... :roll:

 

[Antman]

I said that you posted "populist tabloid-esque slogans". English comprehension seems to be a problem for you, in that you only read what you want to see.

I wonder if that includes thesun.co.uk and dailymail.co.uk... :roll:

There you go, showing your prejudices again, just priceless

 

[transmanche]

There you go, showing your prejudices again, just priceless

And which particular prejudice was I supposedly demonstrating there?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I wonder amid all these talks about health tourism and the like, how many on here actually understands what is required in order to get free NHS treatment? It's not as if one can just get a visa and then book himself into a hospital.

exactly!

 

[youngboy]

I wonder amid all these talks about health tourism and the like, how many on here actually understands what is required in order to get free NHS treatment? It's not as if one can just get a visa and then book himself into a hospital.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nbryp

This was on last year I think, pretty much shows what some people are getting up to illegally !!!

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nbryp

This was on last year I think, pretty much shows what some people are getting up to illegally !!!

From the summary there it sounds like the current rules need to be applied properly and illegal actions stopped rather than complex new rules being applied - presumably anyone who sells access at the moment to get round the current rules will be able to with new rules.

 

[youngboy]

From the summary there it sounds like the current rules need to be applied properly and illegal actions stopped rather than complex new rules being applied - presumably anyone who sells access at the moment to get round the current rules will be able to with new rules.

The programme shows people flying in, asking around their communities to find out if its possible to get a fraudulent NHS card and the community pointing out which people are in charge at which doctors surgeries and how much it will cost. It certainly takes time to do (a few weeks) but as long as they produce the cash which I vaguely think was a couple of hundred quid ??
Like you say, not sure with the same people in charge if any new rules will make any difference.:roll:

 

[bnm]

If I was a migrant thinking of engaging in some benefit tourism, I wouldn't go to the UK. I'd go to Ireland, where the basic rate of Jobseeker's Allowance is €188 per week (approx £160) - more than double the UK rate of £71.10

However, in Ireland there are different rules regarding housing costs. In the UK a means tested JSA claimant will have most or all of their rent and council tax covered by Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. In Ireland Jobseekers Benefit/Jobseekers Allowance claimants have to meet the majority of these costs out of their JB/JSA. Rent Supplement may be paid in some circumstances of hardship, but only to those in the private rented sector. In Ireland JB/JSA claimants are expected to pay their rent and local property taxes out of their benefit.

 

[Antman]

And which particular prejudice was I supposedly demonstrating there?

Against the sun and daily mail..............why do you assume that those who oppose mass immigration must have been brainwashed by them?

 

[transmanche]

Against the sun and daily mail..............

Er, how the hell can it be called 'prejudice' to imply that the Daily Mail is anti-immigration? That's a fact they freely admit.

why do you assume that those who oppose mass immigration must have been brainwashed by them?

Well you said that, not me. But then if someone regurgitates the same baseless myths as those papers... well, if it quacks like a duck...

 

[Antman]

Er, how the hell can it be called 'prejudice' to imply that the Daily Mail is anti-immigration? That's a fact they freely admit.

Well you said that, not me. But then if someone regurgitates the same baseless myths as those papers... well, if it quacks like a duck...

I really have no idea what is in these newspapers because I never read them, or indeed any other daily newspaper now that up to the minute news is readily available online.

Obviously you spend a lot of time reading them as you seem to know so much about their contents.