More Virgin services Birmingham-Scotland

[MidnightFlyer]

The problem with running into Central thence to Stirling though is that unless the connections from Queen St are shocking, it may become possible that it remains quicker to alight at Central, take a 5-7 min walk to Queen St and jump a fast service home (most of the Inverness / Aberdeen trains are non-stop Stirling). I can't imagine either Central-Stirling route being attractive - you can either do it via Hamilton and Cumbernauld (needing to cross the WCML in full at Motherwell) or via Bargeddie and Cumbernauld, which I can't imagine will get your speed up much.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can't imagine there is any significant demand from Stirling to Birmingham and the WCML stations.

The Virgin plan in last year's aborted franchise bid was for services from Stirling to Euston, not Birmingham, after the wires went up.

 

[Eagle]

Like most of these "off-piste" services, I expect it would be a case of a unit starting its day a bit earlier to do the extra run then pick up its original diagram, and vice versa in the evening. This means it doesn't need an extra unit. It almost certainly means the service would run to Central and reverse rather than direct.

It would still be a waste to not serve Edinburgh or Glasgow (especially if it replaces one of those services).

 

[route:oxford]

I can't imagine there is any significant demand from Stirling to Birmingham and the WCML stations.

I suppose much the same could be said of The Highland Chieftan.

If it weren't so busy with people going to London & the East Coast.

 

[cle]

I suppose much the same could be said of The Highland Chieftan.

If it weren't so busy with people going to London & the East Coast.

Totally different, not only does it serve a lot more (popular with visitors/tourists) locations as their only daytime service to London, but it also runs through Edinburgh as normal.

This Virgin train would avoid both cities, and for that reason I'd doubt its viability.

 

[route:oxford]

Virgin voyagers do run past Falkirk Grahamston on there way to start Edinburgh services to Birmingham after leaving Polmadie

That's intriguing...

Would there be an opportunity (if an arrangement could be found for on-train crew) to run ECS then commence a service at Stirling (or Dunblane/Alloa)?

What time of day does the service leave Polmadie/pass Falkirk?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Totally different, not only does it serve a lot more (popular with visitors/tourists) locations as their only daytime service to London, but it also runs through Edinburgh as normal.

This Virgin train would avoid both cities, and for that reason I'd doubt its viability.

Stevenage and Doncaster are more popular with tourists than the Lake District?

Surely not...

Birmingham is a bit of a Business hub, quite a lot goes on in Warrington too.

What people often forget is that a lot of people who work in Edinburgh & Glasgow choose not to live in those cities.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That's intriguing...

Would there be an opportunity (if an arrangement could be found for on-train crew) to run ECS then commence a service at Stirling (or Dunblane/Alloa)?

What time of day does the service leave Polmadie/pass Falkirk?

There are two ECS moves each way per day between Polmadie and Edinburgh. Each way, one runs via Cobbinshaw and one via Cumbernauld and the South Suburban. Times for the latter here:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/schedule.php?uid=P50430&date=2013-07-02
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P50540/2013/07/02/advanced

 

[dk1]

There are two ECS moves each way per day between Polmadie and Edinburgh. Each way, one runs via Cobbinshaw and one via Cumbernauld and the South Suburban. Times for the latter here:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/schedule.php?uid=P50430&date=2013-07-02
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P50540/2013/07/02/advanced

I can hear the drivers on the evening job telling the siggy that they dont need a refresher & just send me direct via Carstairs as i just want to get done & on a flyer, ta.

 

[route:oxford]

There are two ECS moves each way per day between Polmadie and Edinburgh. Each way, one runs via Cobbinshaw and one via Cumbernauld and the South Suburban. Times for the latter here:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/schedule.php?uid=P50430&date=2013-07-02
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P50540/2013/07/02/advanced

Clearly nothing is ever straightforward, and other diagrams have to be considered...

But there is definitely scope there for the service to run to Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa ECS and be back in Edinburgh in time for the 08:52

 

[tbtc]

Alloa to Birmingham?

 

[route:oxford]

Alloa to Birmingham?

You're right.

Dunblane would be better.

 

[Eagle]

Dunblane would be better.

Still not worth it. Dunblane is a pretty small town (smaller than Alloa, I should add). Better to just start at Stirling and save half an hour on the diagram.

 

[route:oxford]

Still not worth it. Dunblane is a pretty small town. Better to just start at Stirling and save half an hour on the diagram.

This would be a service that would start around 07:30 in the morning, according to the diagram.

So loadings are pretty heavy already. Some mornings it's standing room only from Stirling..

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So essentially creating a whole new inter-city service to cater for Stirlingshire commuters to Edinburgh?

 

[Eagle]

So essentially creating a whole new inter-city service to cater for get an ORCATS raid on Stirlingshire commuters to Edinburgh?

Fixed.

 

[tbtc]

So essentially creating a whole new inter-city service to cater for Stirlingshire commuters to Edinburgh?

Sounds like it.

Not sure whether this fantasy idea is for a Voyager to run under the wires post central belt electrification or for Alloa station to be slightly extended to accommodate an eleven coach Pendolino though...

Makes a change from the Brigg line I guess.

 

[route:oxford]

Sounds like it.

Not sure whether this fantasy idea is for a Voyager to run under the wires post central belt electrification or for Alloa station to be slightly extended to accommodate an eleven coach Pendolino though...

Makes a change from the Brigg line I guess.

The Voyager goes as far as Larbert Junction anyway as ECS. This would simply mean that it goes 10 miles(ish) further North, enters revenue generating service and provides an additional 260 peak time seats (Voyager).

As well as giving people a direct and assured link from Central Scotland to NW of England and Birmingham.

As "fantasies" go it's not the most bizarre...

I would imagine it would be one of the 9 Car Pendolinos that would be used once the route is electrified, a 9 coach HST stops at Dunblane on Sundays...

 

[cle]

That's intriguing...

Would there be an opportunity (if an arrangement could be found for on-train crew) to run ECS then commence a service at Stirling (or Dunblane/Alloa)?

What time of day does the service leave Polmadie/pass Falkirk?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Stevenage and Doncaster are more popular with tourists than the Lake District?

Surely not...

Birmingham is a bit of a Business hub, quite a lot goes on in Warrington too.

What people often forget is that a lot of people who work in Edinburgh & Glasgow choose not to live in those cities.

I meant incoming tourists to the Highlands - I can't imagine many folk from Stirling and points north travel to the Lake District!

Most people are travelling straight to London, or within Scotland, specifically it's a nicer train to use to Edinburgh.

 

[Blindtraveler]

dont think the comuters of Stirling or Falkirk would appreciate a run round the sub TBH AND THE CURRENT TIMINGS ARE A TRUNDLE. Was at Polmont yesturday morning and at 07:32 the X move came past at a low speed. I then caught the 07:38 to Haymarket, changing there for the 08:11 To Newcraighall and the 221 was still sitting at Portobello at 08:25 according to my mate who was with me. ↲

 

[dannypye9999]

I know its early but any info on these extra Birmingham/Scotland services on what the timetable pattern will be like.... e.i. times and destinations etc.

Its just I don't fancy waiting until 1 week before the timetable change to see the times!!

thx

 

[tbtc]

I know its early but any info on these extra Birmingham/Scotland services on what the timetable pattern will be like.... e.i. times and destinations etc.

Its just I don't fancy waiting until 1 week before the timetable change to see the times!!

thx

Just a combination of the London - Wolverhampton and Birmingham - Glasgow/Edinburgh services AFAIK.

I doubt there'd be any real change to the overall frequencies/ stops.

 

[Eagle]

Its just I don't fancy waiting until 1 week before the timetable change to see the times!!

The timetables are made public (in journey planners and the NR feeds which are used in sites like OpenTrainTimes and Realtime Trains) 12 weeks before the change date, which is 15 September.

Paper and PDF timetables usually come a few weeks later, although Virgin do seem to have a habit of waiting until the last minute to publish theirs.

 

[Philip Elliott]

The changes are slightly more significant.....

 

[Failed Unit]

As others have said, I just hope that they improve the Southbound service, I use the 0652 Edinburgh - Birmingham a lot and the 10 minutes slow down of the service because of the wait at Wolverhampton is not welcome.

Hopefully when the timetable is either recast they will either set of later from Scotland to reduce the 10 minutes or find some time on the way down to Wolverhampton to get an earlier Birmingham - London path.

It is a pity that they couldn't use this to make 2tph to Wolverhampton like they do currently northbound when the Birmingham - Scotlands start back at London.

My dream services would be.
London - Wolverhampton
London - Scotland via Wolverhampton
London - Shrewsbury via Wolverhampton (taking over the LM path between Birmingham and Shrewsbury)

Minor details are lack of Pendos and lack of wires to Shrewsbury of course..

 

[The Planner]

So what covers the local LM service you have taken over?

 

[Failed Unit]

I am we'll out of date on that line "the planner" I didn't realise that it the LM service was all stations now. I was still thinking the local was wolves - shrew with a faster service to new street. My idea is therefore totally flawed (unless it takes over ATW all the way into Wales )

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It used to be New St, S&D, Wolves, Telford, Wellington and Shrewsbury and an all stations Walsall-Wolves-Wellington service - this ended about 2004 or so as far as I know. Back then would ATW (or the equivalent) have run to Shrewsbury only?

 

[tbtc]

It used to be New St, S&D, Wolves, Telford, Wellington and Shrewsbury and an all stations Walsall-Wolves-Wellington service - this ended about 2004 or so as far as I know. Back then would ATW (or the equivalent) have run to Shrewsbury only?

IIRC in those days there were three trains an hour west of Wolverhampton:

• Walsall - Wellington (all stops)
• Birmingham - Shrewsbury (semi fast)
• Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Chester/Cambrian (semi fast)

(That was the theory - the Cambrian/ Chester service was often cut short at Wolverhampton so it'd make its next path back toward Shrewsbury)

All run by Central Trains - the Cambrian/ Chester service may have still run to/from some random place in the East Midlands (Grimsby etc), but I can't remember when those through services were cut back to New Street (later extended to Birmingham International).

 

[AlexS]

It used to be New St, S&D, Wolves, Telford, Wellington and Shrewsbury and an all stations Walsall-Wolves-Wellington service - this ended about 2004 or so as far as I know. Back then would ATW (or the equivalent) have run to Shrewsbury only?

It started as New Street - Wolverhampton - Telford - Wellington - Shrewsbury, with random extensions to from Lincoln/Nottingham/Grimsby/Skegness and so on (this being after the Aber/Cambrian services were transferred to W&B).

When the Walsall-Wolves-Wellington stopper was withdrawn, it then moved to New Street - Coseley - Wolverhampton - all shacks to Shrewsbury (with, oddly, one or two trains in the middle of the day missing Cosford or Bilbrook for no apparent reason).

It then shifted to call at Sandwell instead of Coseley with a Liverpool service picking up the Coseley stop.

 

[Rich McLean]

Now it is from Shrewsbury to New Streetn

1tph North Wales(1tp2hr)/Cambrain(1tp2hr) - Shrewsbury - Wolves - New Street - BHM International
Calling at Wellington, Telford Central, Wolverhampton, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International.

1tph from Shrewsbury to Birmingham New Street, Calling at
Wellington, Oakengates, Telford Central, Shifnal, Cosford, Alrbrighton, Codsall, Bilbrook, Wolves, Sandwell & Duldley, New Street