More Virgin services Birmingham-Scotland

[MCR247]

No, same number of trains between Euston & Birmingham. Fewer Virgin trains between Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

Well the same number from Birmingham - Wolverhampton, but one less from Wolverhampton - Birmingham

 

[Pumbaa]

Well the same number from Birmingham - Wolverhampton, but one less from Wolverhampton - Birmingham

So if that's the case, what happens to the increasing number of trains stuck at Wolves with no where to go after?

I suspect the xx23 will be terminated at New St instead. Watford Junction is now definitely the biggest loser of VHF in my opinion.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I should know as I was reading the timetable the other day, but IIRC Watford Jn will have gone down from 1tp2h to Glasgow, 1tp2h to Liverpool and 1tph to Wolves to just 1tph to Birmingham in the space of 5 years

 

[43074]

Watford Junction is now definitely the biggest loser of VHF in my opinion.

It's debatable that one. Before the VHF service, Watford had regular through services to Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham. Now they get a more regular hourly service to Birmingham and a few token morning/late evening services to other places (e.g. Scotland) - ok if you're going to Coventry, Birmingham International or Birmingham New Street, but it's difficult to get to anywhere else.

I would say Nuneaton was the biggest loser and always has been - it went from having a Virgin Train every hour to Liverpool to a few morning/evening only calls. I suspect these are only because the DfT specify they have to stop a few services there.

 

[dk1]

I would say Nuneaton was the biggest loser and always has been - it went from having a Virgin Train every hour to Liverpool to a few morning/evening only calls. I suspect these are only because the DfT specify they have to stop a few services there.

Funny you mention Nuneaton. I was there over the weekend. Two things i noted where the many billboards all around town plugging the London Midland enhanced & more frequent service to Euston. Also i was so suprised at the lower than expected property prices. Now during peak hours you can get from London in as little as 55 minutes with Virgin. Commuting probably not cheap but will buy you lots more bricks for your buck.

 

[All Line Rover]

Commuting probably not cheap but will buy you lots more bricks for your buck.

Funnily enough Milton Keynes to London is £4620/yr and Nuneaton to London is £5240/year (LM only). Not much in it.

 

[dk1]

Funnily enough Milton Keynes to London is £4620/yr and Nuneaton to London is £5240/year (LM only). Not much in it.

Best kept secret on the WCML then. If you get off & head over the 'down' side of the line there is a lovely estate of 1930s built houses with all the garden they gave in those days & within walking distance & almost everyone seems to take pride.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Three small observations:

a) this seems to presage 10-car Voyager operation between Euston and Birmingham (on the Scotland services that aren't 390s).
b) one less path used between New Street and Wolverhampton is one more path for somebody else.
Might we see a third Birmingham-Shrewsbury service operated by LM or AW?
Perhaps a second semi-fast with the stopper reversing at Wellington?
c) there will also be less congestion at Wolverhampton without the hourly Euston terminator which blocks a platform for 34 minutes

 

[MCR247]

I doubt LM or AW will run more services when the whole country is short of stock

 

[edwin_m]

An e-trademag (Transport Briefing) has a slightly different version of this story which includes the sentence:

This will be made possible by the recently delivered 106 new Pendolino carriages and use of Super Voyagers for a limited number of other West Coast off peak services.

 

[Mugby]

How many Birmingham - Scotland services are currently rostered for Pendolino's?

I was in Crewe yesterday when the 1901 to BHM came in (1600 ex-Glasgow)
I was surprised to see it was a Pendolino, I thought all Birmingham servics were operated by Voyagers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

theres a cupple during the day and used to be familier with them but diagrams have changed a good bit since the pendo upgrades. theres 1 service X BHM Which runs to EDB as a 10 car 221 and is dead northbound but often goes back south wedged as the 10:51 EDB>BHM.

I think the 06:52 EDB>BHM is a pendo that goes on to EUS and the 16:00x GLC, think also the 12:00x GLC also but very unsure.

 

[northwichcat]

I doubt LM or AW will run more services when the whole country is short of stock

LM do want to run a Preston-Birmingham service, alongside Liverpool-Birmingham going to 1tph and the London-Crewe stopper being extended to Liverpool. However, they were told to hold off by the ORR until the next WCML franchise was awarded.

 

[Eagle]

LM do want to run a Preston-Birmingham service, alongside Liverpool-Birmingham going to 1tph and the London-Crewe stopper being extended to Liverpool. However, they were told to hold off by the ORR until the next WCML franchise was awarded.

It also required shuffling some other operators' services too. The Northern Stoke stopper would have had to be extended to Stafford, to pick up the call at Stone, and I think one of the two XC Manchester services would have gone via Crewe.

 

[northwichcat]

It also required shuffling some other operators' services too. The Northern Stoke stopper would have had to be extended to Stafford, to pick up the call at Stone, and I think one of the two XC Manchester services would have gone via Crewe.

Those were actually recommendations Network Rail put forward in the Midlands RUS. LM hadn't applied to divert the extended Crewe-London service away from Stone but Network Rail proposed it alongside extending the Northern Stoke stopper to Stafford via Stone. However, to do that a XC path via Stoke would have been lost, so the end conclusion was half the XC Manchester services should go via Crewe and it would need to be a Manchester-Stoke-Stone-Birmingham slow service to retain the same level of service between Stoke and Birmingham.

 

[dvboy]

How many Birmingham - Scotland services are currently rostered for Pendolino's?

Not enough! They need to be Pendolinos on the 1620, 1720 and 1820 out of Birmingham.

 

[WCML]

Those were actually recommendations Network Rail put forward in the Midlands RUS. LM hadn't applied to divert the extended Crewe-London service away from Stone but Network Rail proposed it alongside extending the Northern Stoke stopper to Stafford via Stone. However, to do that a XC path via Stoke would have been lost, so the end conclusion was half the XC Manchester services should go via Crewe and it would need to be a Manchester-Stoke-Stone-Birmingham slow service to retain the same level of service between Stoke and Birmingham.

Definitely need more capacity on the Manchester - Birmingham route, so extending the Northern service to BHM would work providing there's a path.

Stafford also lacks connections on the WCML because the Birmingham - Scotland services don't stop, so a stopper to Preston would be welcome.

 

[ValleyLines142]

How many Birmingham - Scotland services are currently rostered for Pendolino's?

I was in Crewe yesterday when the 1901 to BHM came in (1600 ex-Glasgow)
I was surprised to see it was a Pendolino, I thought all Birmingham servics were operated by Voyagers.

There are currently four services on the Birmingham to Scotland route which are booked for Pendolinos:

1S39 0720 Birmingham to Glasgow
1S55 0943 Euston to Glasgow (1120 from Birmingham)
1S80 1443 Euston to Edinburgh (1620 from Birmingham)
1K39 1843 Euston to Crewe (2020 from Birmingham)

Although I caught 1S39 back in August and it was a 221!

 

[dannypye9999]

heres to hoping this news will eventually reinstate a daily direct virgin service between Birmingham and Inverness previously known as the clansman that ran in 1989.

 

[MCR247]

Yeah I'm sure that is likely

 

[route:oxford]

heres to hoping this news will eventually reinstate a daily direct virgin service between Birmingham and Inverness previously known as the clansman that ran in 1989.

It's been widely reported that Virgin would like to run a Pendolino to Stirling once the knitting is up. (If they still run the Franchise when Transport Scotland have finally got the knitting up).

It makes sense (to me) to eventually get the wires as far as Perth...

I do rather like the idea of boarding a train at Birmingham and going all the way through to Stirling.

I suppose if they had sufficient Voyagers, they could do that anyway...

 

[Eagle]

Virgin Voyagers have gotten to Falkirk in service in recent months when variously diverted. They didn't call there of course (although I think TPE did for some reason).

 

[Liam]

It's been widely reported that Virgin would like to run a Pendolino to Stirling once the knitting is up. (If they still run the Franchise when Transport Scotland have finally got the knitting up).

Over what route? via Edinburgh? Or via Motherwell, Coatbridge and Cumbernauld?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Over what route? via Edinburgh? Or via Motherwell, Coatbridge and Cumbernauld?

The latter.

 

[Liam]

That would be a complete waste of a Pendolino.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That would be a complete waste of a Pendolino.

Eeek, sorry. Though you were asking which way the TPE / Virgin Edinburgh via Falkirk trains ran, not the proposed Stirling ones Apologies. Incidentally, I would assume the Stirling services would be via Mossend anyway.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Virgin voyagers do run past Falkirk Grahamston on there way to start Edinburgh services to Birmingham after leaving Polmadie

 

[edwin_m]

That would be a complete waste of a Pendolino.

Like most of these "off-piste" services, I expect it would be a case of a unit starting its day a bit earlier to do the extra run then pick up its original diagram, and vice versa in the evening. This means it doesn't need an extra unit. It almost certainly means the service would run to Central and reverse rather than direct.

 

[cle]

I can't imagine there is any significant demand from Stirling to Birmingham and the WCML stations.

 

[tbtc]

Whilst I've supported improving links from the Forth Valley to the WCML in Lanarkshire (i.e. extending the lightly used Cumbernauld - Motherwell service so that it starts back from Falkirk Grahamston or Stirling), a 390 running Stirling - Motherwell would be a complete waste of time (as it would come at the opportunity cost of serving Glasgow - Birmingham/London).

Replacing the Falkirk extensions of the current Queen Street - Cumbernauld service in favour of a Falkirk - Cumbernauld - Motherwell service would be a step in the right direction though (and not cost any extra units). It's a very lightly loaded 156 to Mothwell though (not great use of a 390!).