Beeching Night - BBC Parliament, Sunday 9 June

[Morgsie]

Indeed. I disagree with most of the closures since the late sixties.

I am pleased that the point of Labour closing a lot of lines was made.

The S&C must be upgraded so it can be used as a Mainline diversionary route

 

[yorksrob]

I am pleased that the point of Labour closing a lot of lines was made.

The S&C must be upgraded so it can be used as a Mainline diversionary route

Quite. When you look at the programme on now, this was made in the 1980's and they still seem to be at the stage of arguing about whether there should even be a social railway in the first place. The S&C was never going to survive with one or two InterCity trains per day. The Regional Railway needed to be accepted and funded.

 

[313103]

Oh bloody wonderful SKY!

I set my box to record this last week under the name Beeching Night. It said 6% of space is required. So what happens tonight it is listed as separate programmes and only the first programme has recorded and only 1% of the lot is recorded. so that means ive missed most of the beeching programmes. I got so bloody annoyed that I smashed the remote into pieces.

I wish they told you had to record the programmes individually. I also bet none of these programmes will be availiable now grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr curse my luck.

 

[telstarbox]

At least no-one would suggest converting railway lines to roads now (as in 1983).

 

[yorksrob]

The Centre For Policy Studies keeps cropping up giving their two pence worth.

 

[Morgsie]

The Centre For Policy Studies keeps cropping up giving their two pence worth.

And the Institute for Economic Affairs

 

[yorksrob]

At least no-one would suggest converting railway lines to roads now (as in 1983).

Transport Watch might disagree with that assertion

 

[John @ home]

I also bet none of these programmes will be availiable now

BBC iplayer claims that all BBC Parliament programmes this evening, except the 2140-2210 edition of Panorama, are coming soon on iplayer. They should be available tomorrow.

 

[Morgsie]

Didn't know Crossrail was on the Agenda back then

 

[overthewater]

Didn't know Crossrail was on the Agenda back then

Its been 30 years coming.

 

[Morgsie]

Why no comparison with Deutsche Bahn?

It has been the Netherlands and SNCF in France

 

[yorksrob]

It's quite good to see all of these programmes in chronological order. History speeded up !

 

[overthewater]

The amount of investment on the UK railways have improve the system since the back in the 1980s.

makes me wonder why Network rail will reduce its £30Billion debt.

 

[Morgsie]

Its not just the contracts but the money aswell, access charges, subsidies etc

Who were the authors mentioned previously?

Hooland, Loft and Lord Faulkner
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More Labour hypocrisy

 

[CC 72100]

Only caught some of the programs, but enjoyed the one from 1983 in particular.

 

[Goatboy]

Here's one for those that want to go back to BR, this on the TV now, the stealth closure process: running the network down etc

That's very harsh on BR - it was a lack of funding to blame not BR. Had you given BR the funds the privately operated network now receives who knows what they would have achieved?

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. Perhaps if they'd found a way to provide BR with what Chris Green called Network Rail's "magic credit card" it could have made the investment. Fingers crossed that the debt doesn't come back to bite the railway on the bottom.

 

[overthewater]

How much money does Network rail get each year? it must come to a point were there money coming in would be spent on debt mainly because there is no need for big investment

 

[CC 72100]

Yay! Thought we'd gone too long without any Christian Wolmar appearance...

 

[overthewater]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rj4b6 i never know about this. I wonder if it will get repeated

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I've just seen this programme quite recently so I suppose I ought to get to bed.

What an excellent nights viewing. The past four hours have flown by like an InterCity 125

 

[CockneySparrow]

How much money does Network rail get each year? it must come to a point were there money coming in would be spent on debt mainly because there is no need for big investment

My understanding is that when the franchise is sorted out that money goes to the government and dissappears, from then on each operator pays a small portion per pound they get in revenue so in real terms the more the operator charges and the more people using the service the more NR get

They also make profit from special projects such as opening new stations like the one proposed for Soham (it doesn't cost millions for a few bricks and paving slabs and tarmac a 50 spaces car park) other projects include reopening lines like the Bletchley to Oxford line and redoubling lines like they have in the Lowestoft area, money will come from a range of parties such as the government, local councils, operating companies or one off individuals

They do have alot to pay out though, they take the hit on cable theft, staff wages during weekdays (waiting for something to go wrong) and the delay repay payments if at fault, someone did mention to me they pay for the replacement buses

 

[Mugby]

I thought the old 'Back Door Beeching' report was very interesting. I think I remember seeing it at the time.

It's good to note that of all the lines quoted at the end as being at risk, I think all of them survived.

 

[CockneySparrow]

I thought the old 'Back Door Beeching' report was very interesting. I think I remember seeing it at the time.

It's good to note that of all the lines quoted at the end as being at risk, I think all of them survived.

After years of buying into his reports the government realised he was crackers so stopped it

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Our " Lincolnshire " group watched the Brass Tacks Reports: Backdoor Beeching programe from 1982 with interest.

The poor chap that fell though the rotting footbridge near Nottingham, some might say this would not happen in todays railway, well they would be far from the truth.

As we speak the office of rail regulation are investigating 2 unsafe footbridges at Gainsborough Cental & Brigg station that should have been replaced years ago.

 

[Robert Taggart]

A good nights viewing.
Well done Nick 'turncoat' Owen - good to see him in his anorak !

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Our " Lincolnshire " group watched the Brass Tacks Reports: Backdoor Beeching programe from 1982 with interest.

The poor chap that fell though the rotting footbridge near Nottingham, some might say this would not happen in todays railway, well they would be far from the truth.

As we speak the office of rail regulation are investigating 2 unsafe footbridges at Gainsborough Cental & Brigg station that should have been replaced years ago.

The problem with investigating footbridges like that is that when they are declared derelict then the authorities declare that due to such little usage it is not worth the (no doubt exorbitant) cost of replacing them to modern standards and just remove them completely and the trains that stopped at the other side then go through non-stop. Note Norton Bridge, Polesworth etc.

 

[yorksrob]

Why no comparison with Deutsche Bahn?

It has been the Netherlands and SNCF in France

I do wonder how much point there is in making comparisons with such continental railways. I doubt that we are we ever going to be at the stage politically or philosophically as a country of being prepared to pay cross the board subsidies for the railway in perpituity. I think they mentioned something like over 40% subsidy for all rail in Holland at the time.

Bob Reid II's description of a "commercial" railway where possible, with adequate subsidy for those parts that need it as well as a certain amount of investment in capital seems like a more realistic aspiration to me.

 

[The Planner]

How much money does Network rail get each year? it must come to a point were there money coming in would be spent on debt mainly because there is no need for big investment

My understanding of it is that the money is borrowed against the value of the asset base, so it is technically not bad debt, just managed. There is a percentage threshold of borrowing against it's value where alarm bells start ringing, I think it is 75% and NR are at 65%.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

After years of buying into his reports the government realised he was crackers so stopped it

Not only 'crackers' but fundamentally slanted to suit Marples' agenda, which was road building, preferably by his own company. My impression of Beeching has not mellowed with time. He still came across as a pompous bigot who was 'right' and everyone else was 'wrong'.

As for Marples, what can one say? He was a crook who eventually fled the country to avoid justice.

The whole sorry affair left large swathes of the country without adequate transport links. The Scottish border country; Bangor - Afon Wen; Aberystwyth left out on a tenuous limb; (They evenhad two goes at closing that. There are similar tales from all over the UK.