Shutting the door in my face

[455driver]

I sir, will genuinely donate a cushion for your backside.

Thank you for the kind offer but I have enough "padding" of my own, I carry it everywhere with me, just in case its needed!

 

[asylumxl]

Thank you for the kind offer but I have enough "padding" of my own, I carry it everywhere with me, just in case its needed!

Well don't say nobody offered next time your behind resembles that of a baboon..

 

[455driver]

oo oo oo you callin a baboon?

Edit-

Thinking about it I cant remember the last time I had a 455 with a seat that wasnt ripped (I mean properly worn through not vandalised) or had any padding left on it.

 

[Starmill]

Don't mind 455driver. His drivers seat upholstery has a tear in it, and one of the springs keeps projecting itself in to an awkward location .

When the upholstery is repaired a normal service will resume.

To be fair, if I were driving that crap I'd probably be grumpy too!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Owch, if this was attempted near me, I think the emergency cord would have to be pulled . If anything was said then you could say that someone was nearly caught in the doors!!

Quite. If my train were dispatched while I were trying to board it, I'd have a thing or two to say to the person who blew the whistle, given that I'd be waiting 30 minutes for the next one!

 

[xfield]

Whats to stop you putting your hand in and blocking the door? Surely there are safety systems preventing the door from closing on a blockage?

 

[tsr]

Whats to stop you putting your hand in and blocking the door? Surely there are safety systems preventing the door from closing on a blockage?

Pain! Not all doors will feel that gentle if you stick your hand in them.

Plus I believe it's against the Byelaws.

There are safety systems designed to ensure that the train doors will not lock if anything of "child's finger size" or upwards gets caught in them. Smaller items may occasionally be tolerated by some systems. For example, the modified sensitive edges on 09TS on the Tube may lock if a bag strap is caught, and will even remain so if it is pulled from the inside, for example. This was a result of delays as a result of insignificant blockages preventing the doors from locking. If you watch the BBC's The Tube (not the one-off programme tonight), I think they explain it there. There are varying door mechanisms on NR and Tube/other LU stock.

Forcing doors or preventing them from closing can lead to damage to the mechanisms and/or delays.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Whats to stop you putting your hand in and blocking the door? Surely there are safety systems preventing the door from closing on a blockage?

Newer trains are pretty gentle when they detect an obstruction. Anything 20+ years old will hurt a bit though.

 

[asylumxl]

oo oo oo you callin a baboon?

Edit-

Thinking about it I cant remember the last time I had a 455 with a seat that wasnt ripped (I mean properly worn through not vandalised) or had any padding left on it.

I suggest you fit a rocking chair in the cab and set it up so that it presses on the pedal as you rock back and forth with the motion of the train. Maybe add in a cork pipe...

 

[AlexS]

Try sticking your hand in a class 153 or 158 plug door and see how well it stops. A hint is that it doesn't.

It's hard to believe that it wasn't so long ago that Southern Region commuter services were dispatched with doors open, let alone with people boarding, because that's just how it was.

As a dispatcher from further north I was also shocked the first time I really looked and paid attention to it at London Bridge heading towards Charing Cross/Cannon St/Thameslink. I'd be shot for it if caught doing it at work.

There can be a lot of dilly dallying around with trains though. More than once I've left people on the platform because they've insisted on walking up and checking every one of 10 carriages to see if it was the one they were reserved in, oblivious to whistles, shouts and the fact they are the only person still boarding. If they are outside the dispatch corridor then I'm sad to say I lock them off the train because I can't risk the delay if their carriage is the very back one. That said, I always go up to the unfortunate individual, make sure they get on the next train OK and endorse any advance tickets.

 

[455driver]

It's hard to believe that it wasn't so long ago that Southern Region commuter services were dispatched with doors open, let alone with people boarding, because that's just how it was.

Anything up to about 10 seconds after departure was fine to board.

 

[dmacw]

That said, I always go up to the unfortunate individual, make sure they get on the next train OK and endorse any advance tickets.

Is that a permitted reason to endorse an advance ticket then?

 

[BestWestern]

Just to add to a very valid point here, the problem of people refusing to move along the train or platform in cases of very busy services is a significant issue. Time and time again we see people all stood in a large huddle around a single door, sometimes even when that door is at the end of a vehicle and there is another no more than 10 feet or so away. I sometimes get the feeling that it's implied we staff make it up or exaggerate it, but it genuinely is a problem. It is perfectly correct that you can frequently walk to the far end of a train which is rammed at the back, and find seats available. Equally true that you can shout to the crowd huddling around one door and get no response at all, until you walk right up to them and practically yell it in their faces. We then get people complaining that we are rude and make excessive use of whistles. It drives you up the wall!

 

[Starmill]

Sorry if my comments about whistles were a bit derogatory... I'm used to watching the dispatch staff at Manchester Piccadilly for whom it is rare that they blow it more than twice.

But, clearly, horses for courses! It's not like they're similar routes in any other way!

 

[FGW_DID]

Owch, if this was attempted near me, I think the emergency cord would have to be pulled . If anything was said then you could say that someone was nearly caught in the doors!!

What a pathetic attitude! :roll:

 

[BestWestern]

Sorry if my comments about whistles were a bit derogatory... I'm used to watching the dispatch staff at Manchester Piccadilly for whom it is rare that they blow it more than twice.

But, clearly, horses for courses! It's not like they're similar routes in any other way!

I'm not a big fan of whistles to be quite honest, and I think they can be over used and consequently be ignored by regulars who hear them screaming away on every journey. But they do have an effect, if only to let people know that the train is about to leave.

 

[bb21]

This discussion reminds me of an encounter with a double 185 set.

It was during the Stalybridge blockade, and I ran down the stairs at Manchester Piccadilly only to find the front set absolutely wedged, so I simply walked along the train to the last carriage and found myself a seat. Upon departure, the guard came on the speaker and apologised for the overcrowding. I looked around and there was a total of FIVE people in my carriage.

Because we reversed at Salford Crescent, by the time I alighted from the train at Leeds we became the front unit. As a I walked along the train, I noticed yet again that everyone seemed to be congregating around the doors to Coaches 5 and 6. Those are the people who have seen how empty the front unit was as it went past them before stopping. The dispatcher was shouting at the top of his voice that there were plenty of seats in the front three coaches, however only about 2 or 3 people moved, so once again, the train left Leeds completely wedged in the rear set.

 

[bronzeonion]

This is why commuter trains need more than 2 doorways per side.

 

[tsr]

This is why commuter trains need more than 2 doorways per side.

Unfortunately, lots of trains used for commuter purposes during some of their diagrams will also operate medium-range services for which the maximum amount of comfortable seating is required - and many doors will doubtless mean fewer seats.

To take an example from an area I'm very familiar with, you can be on a Desiro or Electrostar for either 20 minutes, be perfectly OK with a little bit of standing and want loads of people on board, but the people who go from London to Portsmouth (say) won't be happy when they find they have four seats to choose from and all of them are facing sideways by a cold vestibule!

Then you've got to factor in accessible toilets and bike/luggage space.

Last but not least, I regularly see and use trains with 24 doorways (when coupled up in multiple). With a little more flexibility from passengers, that could be surprisingly satisfactory.

What is perhaps more pressing for short-distance commuter routes is eliminating doors at the ends of coaches, e.g. on 442s - most of these also happen to be too narrow for more than one person to use at a time. If this means getting rid of older stock to result in monetary efficiencies, by reducing dwell times and running more trains to allow more attractive services, so be it!

 

[TheEdge]

One door syndrome. The amount of times I have been hanging about at stations waiting for people to board using only one of four doors is already too many. I can think of one particularly busy station (in a relative sense here, talking rural Norfolk) where passengers gather in a massive group at one end of the platform and then only board at the nearest door, all others have a habit of staying closed.

 

[sarahj]

Gatwick is a classic example of one door useage. We could pull up at Gatwick in 30 coach trains and everyone will still board at the one door at the bottom of the escalators!!!.

You also get it at stations with people getting off. They all queue to get off at the door near the exit. Your standing there, trying to get going, but no another pops out, then another. A massive waste of money was spend extening the down platform at billingshurst from 4 to 8. No point, they all walk through the train and get off at door 1

As for whistles, when we blow, you better jump on. You see em at victoria, walking causualy down the platform. Time to go, signal turns to off, blow the whistle. 99% will jump on there and then, but there is always one who is too cool. Doors close, too late, you had your chance. As I said to one punter, you can either jump on when you hear it, or be cool and miss your train.

But, I will end with the little story of a punter the other night at Falmer. I was in a 313, blew the whistle, everyone on. Doors closed. Just then a punter came over the bridge running. Oh, what the heck, he is trying, he can board at my door at the back. He runs to the train, pushes a door open button. Meanwhile I'm shouting, 'here, back here'. No responce. He moves, forward, 'here' I shout, still no go. Oh well, shut my door and off we go. Guess what, as I passed I noticed headphones :roll:

 

[ModernRailways]

I was in London yesterday, and in the evening peak (around 5:30pm) the Victoria Line was rammed, however when I saw the train arrive I noticed the front was empty whilst the rear was packed. I decided it would be in my best interest to walk up the platform and then get the next train, or walk as far up as possible and jump on after a carriage or so.
In the end I made it to the front of the train as it was being regulated which resulted in me getting a seat, not bad considering at the back I would have been pushed against the door!
For anyone interested the station was Victoria and I was heading northbound.

 

[TDK]

So you dont want the dispatch procedure to be started until the last person has decided to get on, right oh then.

A bit naive 455 after the incident at Liverpool, a guard should only close the doors if it is safe to do so.

You going to pay for the (horrendous) delay minutes are you?

If there are issues the company should allow extra dwell times at said stations

 

[Chapeltom]

Newer trains are pretty gentle when they detect an obstruction. Anything 20+ years old will hurt a bit though.

I was boarding a 185 and the door randomly closed on my arm, 185 doors of course shut if they've been open for more than a couple of minutes and we were over a minute from departure, needlessly to say, it was quite painful and left a nasty mark on my arm. Not the nicest experience I've ever had.

 

[TDK]

Maybe I am ill informed. That's why I came here to ask. But don't worry, I won't ask next time. I'll just stay ill informed.

I'm glad I pay 1000s a year to be called a sheep.

The main reason for this procedure is to keep the trains on time and most delays in the rush hour are cause by either ill informed or passengers who are on their own planet not giving a thought for the punctual running of the service. As drivers we strive to keep time with many factors that need to be taken into consideration that determines what speed we drive at.

As drivers we can make up a minute or 2 without speeding to only lose this because of passengers not being sensible when boarding the train. Take a step back and look next time. A 4 car 455 unite has 8 sets of doors and on most occasions you will find certain doors will be used more if the exit at the station the majority are alighting at is lets say the front. Until the passengers are educated unfortunately either you need to accept the closing of doors or toe the line and and be proactive.

 

[455driver]

A bit naive 455 after the incident at Liverpool, a guard should only close the doors if it is safe to do so.

I am not saying give the driver the tip when some drunk/drugged up teenager is hanging on to the side of the train am I!
I mean blow the whistle to gee them along a bit, but then you have got to argue every point I make havent you! :roll:

If there are issues the company should allow extra dwell times at said stations

Yeah excellent idea, rewrite the whole timetable because the passengers are too stupid to use more than one door!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was boarding a 185 and the door randomly closed on my arm, 185 doors of course shut if they've been open for more than a couple of minutes and we were over a minute from departure, needlessly to say, it was quite painful and left a nasty mark on my arm. Not the nicest experience I've ever had.

I take it 185s have a hustle alarm, did you not hear the hustle alarm which would have sounded for 3 (I think) seconds before the door started to close?

 

[Monty]

185s should have indentical door mechanisms to other Desiro stock, the hustle alarm tends to give a good 10-15 seconds warning before the doors begin to close. They also 'ping' straight back open if any obstruction is caught in the doors, so I would dispute the claim they could cause any real injury.

 

[Pumbaa]

I disagree - the Desiro doors are pretty sodding nasty. Plus they are air-powered and take longer to spring back than their Electrostar cousins.

That said, 350s will stop the close procedure if you motion between the doors, but only if its doing its 3 min then close. If a guard has given the order to close, the doors will close. The overhead passenger counting devices seem to be interlocked with the doors; if these detect movement, the little laser lights up and the doors spring back. 185s don't have these, which may go some way to explain why it's perfectly plausible that Chapeltom's arm was caught and slightly hurt.

 

[burgesst]

Yeah excellent idea, rewrite the whole timetable because the passengers are too stupid to use more than one door!

Well, yes! Unless you can find a way to educate all the passengers and get them to comply, yes!

I'm not being facetious here. If it is expected that passengers are going to do this, and you can't change it, then this is going to have to be built into the system!

 

[The Planner]

Which eventually leads to lack of capacity due to slower journeys and subsequent millions of £ to fix said problem when it can be rectified by a little education to Joe Public?

 

[455driver]

Going into London all the passengers want to be in the front coach so they can be first off, where-as in reality it is better to be in the back coach of the first train and get into London at the same time, compared to being in the front coach of the second train because you couldnt physically fit on the front coach of the first train.

The passengers wont listen or change their habits, the TOCs wont do anything for fear of being seen to be passenger unfriendly so the trains will carry on being delayed, just dont moan at the staff about it!