NathanPrior
Member
Not as far as I'm aware, although I've only done that bit of the route once
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Proposed Rail link to Lydd Airport
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Not as far as I'm aware, although I've only done that bit of the route once
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JamesRowden
Established Member
Yes, and the double track (was singled between Ore and Appledore in 1979).
Yes it does, the line was only electrified as far as Ore, to where South Eastern EMUs run.
The remainder of the route is only served by Southern 171s
Regards
Bushy
Surely this is a case for bustitution? Lydd has struggled since the days of Silver City Airways.
I'm not sure it would count as a "bustitution" since it hasn't had a passenger service since 1967 !
I have a soft spot for this little branch but I can't really see this reopening happening!
Eagle
Established Member
Southeastern only run to Ore in the peaks. Southern, however, use it as their EMU terminus all day.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Can someone assist with a query. Snailham Halt, situated between Doleham and Winchelsea, which was closed in February 1959, is the only station on the Marshlink line to have been closed. Has there been any major changes to the land utilisation of the area where this station was situated since closure was effected ?
GatwickDepress
Established Member
As far as my knowledge goes, the land surrounding where the station was is wooded to the south and fields to the north. The former entrance is currently an agricultural crossing - still as inaccessibly rural as ever. It hasn't changed much at all.
mister-sparky
Member
Ore is also where Hastings depot is, or at least carriage sidings.
GatwickDepress
Established Member
Ore carriage shed was closed circa 1986, any stabling is now done at Alexandra Park sidings and Hastings platform 1 (there is a siding alongside this, but is it even electrified?). I believe. 171s and some 375s reside at St Leonards Depot too. The former depot is now a housing estate: The Sidings.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Indeed. The existence of the depot was, I believe, the only reason the 3rd rail goes as far as Ore. In purely operational/economic terms, once the depot went it may have made sense to rip up the juice rail and serve Ore solely with through services to Ashford, but I can't imagine that going down too well with the locals...
Speaking of which, which was the last route to be de-electrified but remain open?
The southern stub of the Woodhead saw occasional footex traffic after the wires went but can't think of any others, other than Tyneside branches that were switched to DMU before being converted to Metro and re-energised.
For a long time once Ore shed had closed, pretty much all trains from either direction terminated at Hastings with one electric train a day going through to Ore.
Not really, Romney Marsh and its tributary valleys in this case the Brede Levels are close to sea level and regularly suffered severe flooding until drainage schemes were installed in the late 60s and early 70s. The land is still pumped dry today so housebuilding has been pretty minimal. The only real development in the area since the war has been along the coast between Dungeness and Hythe.
Whilst people campaign for better services the reality is that passenger levels are quite low except for leisure traffic in the summer. Even though Three Oaks and Winchelsea have two hourly service these days passengers outside the school trains are pretty rare.
Even though I'm regularly on one of the trains that stops at Doleham I cant remember seeing a passenger alight or board a train there since Thumper days!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
not a cat in hells chance this line will ever be built :roll:
Not wishing to be pedantic, but it already exists !
I even traversed it by train last December.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
pedant - that should read REbuilt!(perhaps improved would be better!)
This is true. Judging by the speed we were going it would need quite a bit of work doing
Eagle
Established Member
This is true. Judging by the speed we were going it would need quite a bit of work doing
The entire line is single and has a 20 mph speed limit, and there are no fewer than 14 level crossings between Appledore and Lydd.
TheJRB
Established Member
Whilst I agree about the Marshlink services only being properly overcrowded south of Hastings, I've been on a couple of trains where all the seats were taken between Hastings and Ashford (one on a November Sunday afternoon!). Maybe in an ideal world (minus having three/four cars all the way to Ashford), a 171/7 could attach/detach at Hastings to provide four coaches for the busy stretch to Brighton.
I'm still convinced the official Doleham usage figures for last year are slightly dodgy at 38,666. Maybe the last two 6s were a typing mistake!
The only reason that Marshlink (proper) would be busy on a November Sunday would be either because The Hastings line via Tonbridge is closed for engineering works and people are travelling via Ashford and HS1 to get to London or because there has been a special event where people have come down from London (Rye Bonfire Night).
I often travel back to Portsmouth from Rye early evening on a Sunday, theres a few students travelling back to Brighton but a train departing from Rye with more than 20 passengers would be exceptionally busy.
I often travel back to Portsmouth from Rye early evening on a Sunday, theres a few students travelling back to Brighton but a train departing from Rye with more than 20 passengers would be exceptionally busy.
Hove Heretic
Member
Wasn't there something about NR reducing the line down from Appledore to the status of a siding? [Rail 721 p.16 'News in Brief']
Mind you, with 'Boris Island' being rejected by the committee at Halitosis Hall recently, all that runway capacity is going to have to be found somewhere.
Mind you, with 'Boris Island' being rejected by the committee at Halitosis Hall recently, all that runway capacity is going to have to be found somewhere.
JamesRowden
Established Member
Marshlink/HS1 is the fastest route between Hastings and East Coast Mainline, West Coast Mainline, Midland Mainline and Great Eastern destinations and for such destinations it requies the same ticket as is used for journeys via Tonbridge (and so the same price).
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Indeed this is so and is a reflection of the type of land use through which this route passes. The area currently occupied by Stansted Airport was rural, but at least it had the benefit of the very busy through running West Anglia main line to connect the short branch line to, but the development potential area of Lydd is somewhat far removed from a similar comparison premise.
pablo
Member
Err. Lydd is in the sticks?
dysonsphere
Member
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Very much so.
SprinterMan
Established Member
dysonsphere
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Just checked the airfield on google earth. On runway 21 the overrun is only 220 yards before you hit the railway which is not enough really, the taxiway does not look wide enough even for a B737 (its only 16 yards wide), so every airliner would have to backtrack to take off on 21 and if landing on 03 would have a very tight turn around at the far end and backtrack again. For an airfield in the middle of nowhere. I can't see anyone spending the large amount of money to upgrade the place.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Just because they gave been granted the permission to extend the runway and to build a new terminal does not mean that any source of financial wherewithal will not want to see the presented business case to justify the risk of the loan capital that will be required. If we on RailUK forums can see shortfalls in the business case, it will be certain that those in the financial sector will also see the same shortfalls.
The matter of the rail link is something only to be considered when the finance is fully in place to meet the first part of the development and then the matter of which airlines will see any advantage will have to be a consideration to be noted and the then projected passenger footfall after the airlines have finally made their decision will then be a matter to be receive the most perfunctory consideration by those responsible for the rail service provision when the case for the rail link is considered.
The matter of the rail link is something only to be considered when the finance is fully in place to meet the first part of the development and then the matter of which airlines will see any advantage will have to be a consideration to be noted and the then projected passenger footfall after the airlines have finally made their decision will then be a matter to be receive the most perfunctory consideration by those responsible for the rail service provision when the case for the rail link is considered.
Although the ticket is as you say valid that way very few journeys through London journeys will be actually be the fastest route due to the fact that the Marshlink service is only hourly wheras the Tonbridge service is 2 per hour. The quickest way for most through London Journeys from Hastings is still direct to London Bridge and then Northern Line to Kings Cross St Pancras. If youve got luggage and Thameslink is running thats the easiest route (if youre going up the MML changing at Luton is worth a check).
Liverpool Street is less than 15 mins walk from London Bridge with frequent bus services
dysonsphere
Member
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Yes but dosn't solve the overrun on 21 worst case would be hitting a train and its allways the worst case you look at. I suppose they could have signals to hold trains when a landing/take off is in progress. Anyway do they have the money.
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