Proposed Rail link to Lydd Airport

[paul1609]

Yes but dosn't solve the overrun on 21 worst case would be hitting a train and its allways the worst case you look at. I suppose they could have signals to hold trains when a landing/take off is in progress. Anyway do they have the money.

I can really see the railway being a problem, I think they averaged less than 2 a month trains in 2012.

 

[SprinterMan]

Just checked the airfield on google earth. On runway 21 the overrun is only 220 yards before you hit the railway which is not enough really, the taxiway does not look wide enough even for a B737 (its only 16 yards wide), so every airliner would have to backtrack to take off on 21 and if landing on 03 would have a very tight turn around at the far end and backtrack again. For an airfield in the middle of nowhere. I can't see anyone spending the large amount of money to upgrade the place.

Is it not an airport then, despite the fact they call themselves one?


Looks like it's not going to happen anyway:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/15/lydd-airport-danger

We have been told that when the power station buildings were erected they were designed to sustain an impact from aircraft that might accidentally fly into them. But as I understand it, the aircraft they were talking about were light aircraft such as those that currently use the airport, not the much larger planes that are being proposed.

Adam

 

[pablo]

Some peeps sound off but don't understand what they're talking about. What is to be gained by crashing into an enormous lump of concrete? Not worth the investment.

OTOH ISTR from memory that there used to be a service called Coach-Air. Did it go Victoria-Lydd-Beauvais-Paris?
You can guess which sectors were which....
And I think Freddy Laker BAF used to fly Carvairs from there in the 50s or 60s before they moved to Southend, which, incidently, also has a railway under the approach.
Railway never worried anyone back then and the aircraft performance was a lot poorer than today.
TO and App profiles are worked out quite scientifically and TO & Landing distances too.

 

[Hove Heretic]

I can really see the railway being a problem, I think they averaged less than 2 a month trains in 2012.

For the record, there was an 'interesting' solution to this problem at Gisborne Airport, North Island NZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Train_intersecting_Gisborne_Airport_runway.jpg

Not sure UK planning authorities would be too keen tho' - enough level crossings on the line already!

 

[jopsuk]

blimey! Tonly aircraft-sized level crossing in the UK (a taxiway one at Filton) is now out of use, Filton having been closed down.

 

[dysonsphere]

For the record, there was an 'interesting' solution to this problem at Gisborne Airport, North Island NZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Train_intersecting_Gisborne_Airport_runway.jpg

Not sure UK planning authorities would be too keen tho' - enough level crossings on the line already!

Just looked on Google Earth its still there (2005 Image) , guess electric train might be a problem.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

blimey! Tonly aircraft-sized level crossing in the UK (a taxiway one at Filton) is now out of use, Filton having been closed down.

Is the one at Ronaldsway still in use?

 

[pablo]

Hamble had a railway too.

 

[JamesRowden]

Although the ticket is as you say valid that way very few journeys through London journeys will be actually be the fastest route due to the fact that the Marshlink service is only hourly wheras the Tonbridge service is 2 per hour. The quickest way for most through London Journeys from Hastings is still direct to London Bridge and then Northern Line to Kings Cross St Pancras. If youve got luggage and Thameslink is running thats the easiest route (if youre going up the MML changing at Luton is worth a check).
Liverpool Street is less than 15 mins walk from London Bridge with frequent bus services

In the evening both routes are 1tph from London to Hastings and it is only 2 minutes longer from St Pancras to Hastings via Ashford than it is from London Bridge to Hastings.

Stratford International to Hastings is 11 minutes faster than London Bridge to Hastings (on the stopping service [so only 1 minute slower than the fast service which doesn't run in the evening]) and is a short walk / 1 DLR stop from Stratford domestic.

HS1 seems far more attractive to me and the journey planners recommend it. The ticket pricing appears to have been designed around it (£7 diference between tickets from Hastings and Battle to Cambridge but only a £2 difference on tickets from Hastings and Battle to Reading [where the route via Tonbridge is clearly best]).

Also I have talked to someone on the platform who was at the time travelling from St Leonards Warior Square to Cambridge on a Weekday morning using the Marshlink/HS1 route.

 

[paul1609]

In the evening both routes are 1tph from London to Hastings and it is only 2 minutes longer from St Pancras to Hastings via Ashford than it is from London Bridge to Hastings.

Stratford International to Hastings is 11 minutes faster than London Bridge to Hastings (on the stopping service [so only 1 minute slower than the fast service which doesn't run in the evening]) and is a short walk / 1 DLR stop from Stratford domestic.

HS1 seems far more attractive to me and the journey planners recommend it. The ticket pricing appears to have been designed around it (£7 diference between tickets from Hastings and Battle to Cambridge but only a £2 difference on tickets from Hastings and Battle to Reading [where the route via Tonbridge is clearly best]).

Also I have talked to someone on the platform who was at the time travelling from St Leonards Warior Square to Cambridge on a Weekday morning using the Marshlink/HS1 route.

I can only assume that there is very little Hastings traffic to/from north of the Thames then. I regularly travel down from St Pancras to Rye where I can get a taxi home. After the evening peak the average train will have maybe 20-25 people on departing Ashford. The majority of people either get off at Ham Street or Rye with maybe a couple at Appledore. Probably more people get on at Rye in the Hastings direction than have travelled through from Ashford.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hamble had a railway too.

Were you referring to the Hamble-le-Rice branch line that served the oil terminal at one time ?

 

[pablo]

Yesum. Didn't know it was double-barrelled though.

Edit: I see from the latest streemap that a housing estate has been built where the hangers used to be so the airfield is no longer divided by the branch to the oil terminal. The Nimbys must have prevailed!

 

[Hove Heretic]

Is the one at Ronaldsway still in use?

I'm not aware of any direct rail I.M.R connection with Ronaldsway. Certainly can't see any sign of any rail activity within the airport perimiter these days. There's a halt to serve the airport via a footpath, and it's busier tham Teeside Airport Station!!

http://www.iomsrsa.com/imr-stat/59-rons-halt

Are you talking about a temporary line put in for some purpose?


Back to Lydd, with Thanet/Manston Airport so close by, nearer London and with better(ish) road infrastructure in place and a main railway within a mile of the terminal (plus being not exactly overloaded), what is the rationale for sending folks on a trek into a nature reserve miles further from other airports and centres of population?

 

[pablo]

"..what is the rationale for sending folks on a trek into a nature reserve miles further from other airports and centres of population? "

Because it's there and needs business. QED?

Edit: Also, although Manston is only just beyond the M2 and has a whopping runway (it is or was a MEDA: military emergency diversion airfield) the westerly approach is low over Ramsgate, so any real expansion there wouldn't be popular.
So we're back to Lydd-in-the-Boondocks.

 

[paul1609]

The Road links to Lydd airport from London are actually pretty good Junction 10 of the M20 then the A2070 and A259 which although only single carriageways are pretty fast. Id guess the journeys probably much faster than London- Manston.

 

[starrymarkb]

There ye are then. Sorted. Just like the Doctor ordered .... all those years ago!

I'd say rail wouldn't be suitable as a realist. Somewhere like Lydd Airport wouldn't generate enough traffic.

Take Manston for example - the largest passenger aircraft (baring any refuelling Iran Air A300s) are Flybe Q400s and KLM F70s - both seating less then a 153!

 

[telstarbox]

The Road links to Lydd airport from London are actually pretty good Junction 10 of the M20 then the A2070 and A259 which although only single carriageways are pretty fast. Id guess the journeys probably much faster than London- Manston.

That's because hardly anyone lives down that way to use the roads

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst reading a story to my two-year old grandson, who likes the Thomas the Tank Engine stories, the matter of Lydd came to mind, as on the Isle of Sodor, the airport there already possesses a rail link offered by the North Western Railway...

With a similar "sparsely" () populated area to Lydd, Fair Isle Airport which is owned by the National Trust for Scotland is served by Britten-Norman Islander aircraft....but to date, the National Trust for Scotland have still to decide to build a rail network all around Fair Isle to boost their holiday trade.

 

[HSTEd]

A 15" gauge (or perhaps a 60cm one) railway on Fair Isle would be fun......

Someone should write up a proposal.

 

[pablo]

Fair Isle: You wouldn't get many volunteers for track laying or ops. What few are away with the birds.

 

[Bushy]

On the news this evening:

Campaigners opposed to development at Lydd Airport in Kent have lodged an appeal against a government decision to allow the airport to expand. The £25m project, also known as London Ashford Airport, includes a runway extension of almost 300m (328yds) and a new terminal. The RSPB and Lydd Airport Action Group have lodged separate appeals.

The airport's bosses said government permission for expansion was a "victory" for common sense. The plans, which were initially proposed in 2010, were given the go-ahead by the government in April after a public inquiry. Lydd Airport said development would see an increase of 500,000 passengers a year.

Chris Corrigan, the RSPB's South East regional director, said: "Dungeness is one of the most important wildlife sites in the world - it is protected at global, European and UK levels. "Over recent years, our concerns about the impact of expanding nearby Lydd Airport led to the need to argue our case at a public inquiry. "The stakes are too high to risk the future of one of our best and most important places for nature without testing the basis for this decision which we consider to be flawed."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22686761

Regards

Bushy

 

[dysonsphere]

The point still stands who will use the place. Gatwick is better for most people and you cant change the fact its in the middle of nowhere.

 

[pablo]

Some people have a short memory. Dungeness has been there a long time. Lydd airport has seen far more traffic in the past than now contemplated and the tweetie pies are still there.
I find wherever I work around this country that the local disused headland, marsh, heath, (substitute any other) is always the last known habitat for some threatened species.
Trouble is I find them all over again in the next place I go to. Natterjack toads was a favorite. They are everywhere! Great Crested Newts is another. You dare not work within 500 metres of them without a licence from the EA.
A lot of this eco-warrior stuff is just a hobby for peeps without a purpose. Sometimes it's an EU Directive. They have their shortages but we don't and a good idea might be to export some wildlife to Europe to redress their imbalances. A bit like the Euro really.

BTW: 300 metres is a staggeringly long extension isn't it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I find wherever I work around this country that the local disused headland, marsh, heath, (substitute any other) is always the last known habitat for some threatened species. Trouble is I find them all over again in the next place I go to. Natterjack toads was a favorite. They are everywhere! Great Crested Newts is another. You dare not work within 500 metres of them without a licence from the EA.

Notwithstanding this, the area of Dungeness is a particularly most important wildlife area and one well to the fore in the RSPB agenda of sites of importance.

 

[NLC1072]

A mad idea... Extend the romney hythe and dymchurch railway to lydd airport! And connect the hythe end to sandling as was propposed a few years back. Tourists will pay to ride it so no shortage of patronage.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A mad idea... Extend the romney hythe and dymchurch railway to lydd airport! And connect the hythe end to sandling as was propposed a few years back. Tourists will pay to ride it so no shortage of patronage.

The airport operators may feel that the use of a narrow-gauge railway, well known as the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway is, may not be the image that they wish to portray as a "hoped-for" modern airport operation.