Why does FGW get so much bad press?

[dk1]

I suspect that if Virgin did take over the GW franchise; the Virgin brand would be used on the InterCity services and a (Stagecoach) Great Western Trains brand (or similar) used on the rest.

If you remember in the early days of privatisation Virgin XC used 158s (747 springs to mind) on Blackpool-Portsmouth & Liverpool/Manchester Apt to Scotland services. These where however not to be given Virgin livery or even branding. Just ran around in the original Regional Railways EXPRESS colours.

 

[Zoe]

It would have been interesting to see how Virgin would have branded the former Central services had they won the Cross Country franchise back in 2007. Would running 170s from Birmingham to Leicester/Stansted have fit the image of the brand?

 

[W-on-Sea]

I've been commuting (Oxford or Didcot to London) with FGW for the last 18 months or so, usually once a week, along with other leisure journeys - and I have to say, in terms of customer service, FGW are really good. Friendly, knowledgeable, helpful staff seem very much to be the norm, both on trains and on stations.

As for what's not so good....well. Turbos for one thing. That is a definite curse on Thames Valley services! (Yeah, they aren't Pacers, sure, but still...) And the consequences of having to run a complex set of services, using trains that are not the newest, on lines that are subject to extensive upgrading...which does lead to delays.

I'm not sure how much it is a question of image: to my mind First's train services (even, he says grudgingly, FCC) have an overall far smarter and professional presentation than their buses generally do (and frankly First Buses, overall....are very much the poor relation of Stagecoach and Go-Ahead, certainly, and probably of Arriva too). To some extent FGW have to make the best of a lot of difficult circumstances, most of which are beyond their control (but still: owing a few HSTs of their own, and upseating the HSTs, - that was a good initiative on their part, and one worthy of praise. Bringing back the 180s, ditto): but, I think I would still say, for the most part, they make the best of difficult circumstances, and generally do a pretty good job in so doing.

 

[mrcheek]

I personally think FGW simply employ some PR people who arent all that good at their job. Virgin always get the media on their side, even in ridiculous situations, such as when Arriva was awarded the Cross Country franchise, and the BBC news piece compared Virgin's new Voyagers with Arriva's (Arriva Trains Wales) Pacers!

Personally, I think FGW are the best franchise in the country, and Ive travelled pretty extensively on most. Of course, they have delays, as all franchises do. But when Ive been on FGW trains, the information updates are usually pretty regular.

FGW also has some of the better refurbished interiors on its trains. Its staff always seem good at their job, plus they always do proper ticket checks, unlike some other operators.

 

[island]

I think one of the big things that colours impressions of FGW is the perceived crowding on Reading-Paddington HST services.

(I say "perceived", because a huge amount of this comes down to people refusing to move down the train.)

 

[asylumxl]

I'm going to buck a trend here. I have been caught up in various disruption on FGW services to both Plymouth/Penzance and Bristol.

On one occasion, I believe I was on a Paddington to Penzance service. Just as we passed Iver we began to slow down quite quickly (in HST terms) and we came to a standstill near Langley station. I was able to contact someone in the know, who informed me we he had hit someone at Iver.

But well over 40 minutes passed before any announcement was made. I understand it's a rather horrible situation to be in, but I do feel this was a bit excessive. Gripe number 1.

Eventually after all investigations/checks were done by the relevant authorities, well over 2 hours had elapsed and an announcement was made informing us we would be detrained at Slough.

I had no issue with this. What I had an issue with was that during this time, the buffet had kept informing us that "the buffet was still open and selling blaa blaa blaa".. Am I mad? I could swear there rules in the Passenger Charter regarding long delays and bottled water and such. I'm willing to be corrected, but that seems like completely shameful profiteering! Gripe number 2.

When we did arrive in to Slough, a later Penzance service made an additional stop. Unfortunately, it was already full and standing, which required me to stand for over 4 hours, certainly adding insult to injury. I appreciate that's not the fault of FGW though and appreciate the additional stop being made. It was pretty crummy for me though, but at least I wasn't the driver of my original service.

When I arrived at my destinations, the many people who had missed their connections were absolutely overwhelming the few staff FGW had on the station at the time. Despite my large delay, at least I got to my destination.

At the time FGW didn't have a delay repay scheme (does it now?) and it really had not been a good experience. I did write to FGW regarding my experience, but their Customer Service department seemed completely uninterested and sent out generic replies. Gripe number 3.

That's my bad experience with FGW. Just thought I'd add some balance.

 

[PHILIPE]

If you remember in the early days of privatisation Virgin XC used 158s (747 springs to mind) on Blackpool-Portsmouth & Liverpool/Manchester Apt to Scotland services. These where however not to be given Virgin livery or even branding. Just ran around in the original Regional Railways EXPRESS colours.

There were no 158s on Blackpool to Portsmouth services. Worked by Voyagers.

 

[A-driver]

There were no 158s on Blackpool to Portsmouth services. Worked by Voyagers.

As far as I remember there were before the voyagers were built.

 

[richw]

There were no 158s on Blackpool to Portsmouth services. Worked by Voyagers.

Thats incorrect for starts that they were worked by voyagers. The first voyagers werent introduced until 2001, the Virgin CrossCountry franchise started Jauary 1997. The liverpool and blackpool to pompey services started summer 1998 and were withdrawn in 2003

 

[dk1]

There were no 158s on Blackpool to Portsmouth services. Worked by Voyagers.

I think you'll find there where for a time.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well in terms of dealing with delays my two experiences of FGW have been very positive and the on train staff handled the situations brilliantly.

The first was on the Night Riviera to Penzance, we were held around Truro for around forty minutes due to signalling problems. As soon as we were moving staff came through the train asking passengers if they were planning on getting the helicopter out of Penzance or if they had connections onto the various branches. They gave advice and assurances. In my case as I was jumping on the first HST back to London they were able to find out the guard of our train was taking the HST back out so my connection was 'guaranteed'. But they were a great help to everyone.

The second incident was on approach to St Austell on an HST to Penzance, in terrible weather (heavy rain and lots of wind) and rapidly fading light, we hit a deer. After sitting in the station for a few minutes the guard comes on the PA to tell us what's happened and that the driver is investigating. Five minutes or so later he comes back on to tell us that we've got a fuel leak and that the driver is going to attempt to fix it. Of course everyone at this point in my carriage is rather worried as surely this will lead to a big delay? Not so! Five minutes later the guard comes back on and informs us that the driver has fixed the leak and after he's cleaned up we'll be on our way. And he certainly did need cleaning up as I could see him through the window and he was covered in oil/diesel from head to toe. Shortly after we were on our way after a delay of maybe thirty minutes. Well informed throughout and very grateful to the driver (everyone I saw thanked him on arrival at Penzance).

So in my experience FGWs staff handle delays brilliantly, literally willing to get their hands dirty to keep the service going!

Personally I think FGWs image is damaged by their commuter services into London due to the overcrowding there as my experience of their operations away from London has been nothing but excellent.

 

[causton]

The things I hear most are the horrible crowding between Reading and London. And I hear that most of the time this is because people do not move down the train.

Is there any way to force passengers to spread out throughout the train? The only thing I can think of is employing security guards to literally prevent people going to the London end of the platforms at Reading, only letting people off the station who get off from the front! But is it only a Reading problem mainly? *shrug*

 

[A-driver]

I think that to be fair to first they have a few rough deals and the public blame them for issues beyond their control.

On FGW overcrowding is a huge issue bits its out if firsts control. They can't just add more coaches or run more trains like many punters think they can.

On FCC they have one if the countries most complicated and congested routes- the thameslink. Its a nightmare to run as it spans multiple over crowded regions and they have been given very old rolling stock to work with.

On FCC specifically there are so many hate campaigns online with various websites and forums but I honestly believe that if they lost the franchise those sites would quickly become hate groups against the new operator as nothing will change as a result. The new franchise holder will still suffer exactly the same issues and challenges that first does.

 

[Aldaniti]

I think you'll find there where for a time.

I was a regular user of the Blackpool - Portsmouth service and never saw or heard of a 158 operating it. It was either a HST or a 47 and Mk2's. Not to say it didn't happen but 158's were never diagrammed for the train.

 

[Andrewlong]

The things I hear most are the horrible crowding between Reading and London. And I hear that most of the time this is because people do not move down the train.

Is there any way to force passengers to spread out throughout the train? The only thing I can think of is employing security guards to literally prevent people going to the London end of the platforms at Reading, only letting people off the station who get off from the front! But is it only a Reading problem mainly? *shrug*

I used to travel between Reading and Paddington and it was possible to get a seat in morning rush hour if you got on the last carriage.

FGW don't help overcrowding by threatening to charge standard class passengers who stand in first class vestibules - first class fares. I can see why they want to protect the first class environment but if I am minding my own business in a first class vestibule and not getting in the way of the trolley - does it really matter ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In terms of finding out what is going on - I have always found FGW twitter service to be very good. Staff are sympathetic and keen to get real time updates from passengers.

 

[Daimler]

The things I hear most are the horrible crowding between Reading and London. And I hear that most of the time this is because people do not move down the train.

Is there any way to force passengers to spread out throughout the train? The only thing I can think of is employing security guards to literally prevent people going to the London end of the platforms at Reading, only letting people off the station who get off from the front! But is it only a Reading problem mainly? *shrug*

I believe that the new layout at Reading, with two staircases down from the bridge/concourse, is designed to do this - the 'western' staircase down to the platforms emerges somewhere near the rear two carriages of a HST.

Of course, if people insist on travelling in the standard class carriage closest to the barriers at Paddington, then even this won't do a great deal of good - but those people going for the H&C line platforms once they get to London shouldn't mind being towards the back of the train too much.

 

[Flamingo]

I used to travel between Reading and Paddington and it was possible to get a seat in morning rush hour if you got on the last carriage.

FGW don't help overcrowding by threatening to charge standard class passengers who stand in first class vestibules - first class fares. I can see why they want to protect the first class environment but if I am minding my own business in a first class vestibule and not getting in the way of the trolley - does it really matter ?.

Why do these passengers not want to go stand in a StD class vestibule? Because they want to be near the front at Paddington or are too bloody lazy to walk down the platform at paddington when going to the train.

They do get in the way, it's not one person standing, it's 15 or20, on trains that have plenty of seats and standing room further down. I work them, I do the head counts, I walk the length of the train between Rdg and Pad, I get arguments like yours on a daily basis, and they are BS from people who don't like being told what to do.

I work very few trains in or out of Reading at peak times that do not have a few dozen (at least) seats available in Coach A or B, or have standing room - and face it, if they are standing in a vestibule, they are not looking for a seat, so go stand where they bought a ticket for. Or buy a First Class ticket.

If it was FCC, they would be dishing out PF's by the dozen, but FGW managers are too concerned about upsetting passengers to take any kind of enforcement action over this. They just issue memo's to the TM's telling us to move people on, but apologise to them when they complain.

 

[mrcheek]

if I am minding my own business in a first class vestibule and not getting in the way of the trolley - does it really matter ?

yes it does. If Ive paid to sit in First Class, Im paying for the whole experience. which means no crowding, and no having to push past inconsiderate people without a valid ticket who are in my way if I want to use the toilet!

 

[Flamingo]

yes it does. If Ive paid to sit in First Class, Im paying for the whole experience. which means no crowding, and no having to push past inconsiderate people without a valid ticket who are in my way if I want to use the toilet!

Thank you. That's the point I try to make every time I'm accused of crap customer service by somebody I'm telling to move.

 

[craigwilson]

Personally I think FGWs image is damaged by their commuter services into London due to the overcrowding there as my experience of their operations away from London has been nothing but excellent.

Probably true of most TOCs whose services are heavily based around commuter markets, and especially the London commuter market. I don't have much issue with Southeastern generally, but then I don't commute into London. Their London commuters would no doubt have a different opinion!

FGW don't help overcrowding by threatening to charge standard class passengers who stand in first class vestibules - first class fares. I can see why they want to protect the first class environment but if I am minding my own business in a first class vestibule and not getting in the way of the trolley - does it really matter ?

It does when they've paid for a First Class ticket and you haven't.

 

[A-driver]

Generally commuter tocs will suffer worse pess than others for one simple reason-no one want to be on the train in the first place!

You have no choice but to pay for a ticket to work. You then have to get out of bed and drag yourself to the station in all weather every weekday, crowd onto the platform with other equally miserable (well that's perhaps a bit harsh but let's face it, we would all prefer to have a day at home than go to work!) commuters, cram onto busy trains which are running to capacity and worse of all, when you do get into the city you travel to you have to spend the next 9 hours at work before cramming back onto a train tired and fed up to go back home!

Delays are far more common on these services, as is over crowding as so many trains are running in the peaks.

Compare that to a line which has very little commuter traffic. It may see 1 train per hour so delays are almost impossible. People travelling on those trains are going Thor a day out at the seaside, shops, in the countryside etc and so are far more relaxed and happy. And even if they are 5 mins late they aren't in as much of a hurry as the rat race and will be more relaxed.

Train companies are an easy target for commuters who have had a bad day or have a busy day ahead. I doubt very much when you see people exploding at railway staff that they are really that upset that their train has been cancelled, more likely its the icing on the cake as they have had a long day, been shouted at by the boss, worked through lunch, had a bad meeting, lost their company an important contract, have another long day tomorrow, want to go home and now the trains are screwed up!

 

[Hellfire]

I think First have made a huge mistake running all their franchises under one main brand. If I was running FGW I would completely differentiate the long distance and commuter services and paint all the HSTs chocolate and cream.

 

[Zoe]

I think First have made a huge mistake running all their franchises under one main brand. If I was running FGW I would completely differentiate the long distance and commuter services and paint all the HSTs chocolate and cream.

There was a plan back in 2005 to maintain three separate brands.
http://www.firstgroup.com/latest_news/?id=004191

The creation of a new family of brands for the franchise: First Great Western Express - high speed intercity services, First Great Western Link " suburban services out of London Paddington and First Great Western Local " regional services (mainly former Wessex Trains services).

 

[Mojo]

I had to admit, I didn't realise they did get so much bad press. Certainly, when compared to other companies like Southeastern and Capital Connect.

Things were quite bad a few years ago in the West of England and shortly after the launch of their new Timetable in December 2006 and its amended version in December 2007 which lead to 'Fares strikes' in January 2007 and January 2008, but things improved rapidly since then, with much in terms of positive coverage, particularly on the local services in the West of England.

 

[jnjkerbin]

I had to admit, I didn't realise they did get so much bad press. Certainly, when compared to other companies like Southeastern and Capital Connect.

Things were quite bad a few years ago in the West of England and shortly after the launch of their new Timetable in December 2006 and its amended version in December 2007 which lead to 'Fares strikes' in January 2007 and January 2008, but things improved rapidly since then, with much in terms of positive coverage, particularly on the local services in the West of England.

That's interesting, because I don't think that SET get that much bad press (certainly not about the Metro and Mainline parts of their outfit), especially since they've started their gradual de-Connexisation! Apart from that the main critiscism they seem to get is about HS1 and what is seen by many as it's lack of cost-justification.

That said FCC do seem to come out the worse, and I still feel that there is rather a lot of grumbling/media bashing of FGW when compared with many of the othet IC operators.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not to say it didn't happen but 158's were never diagrammed for the train.

Not so, according to the recollections of several forum members in previous threads on the subject, and also on this internet site:

http://sulzerpower.com/geocities/blackpool/index.html

1N11 0647 Preston-Blackpool
1O71 0735 Blackpool-Portsmouth
1M32 1440 Portsmouth-Blackpool
5H32 2104 Blackpool-Longsight

The service was originally an experiment by Cross Country trains, extending an old service which ran from Blackpool-Birmingham (normally using one of the Cross Country pool Class 158s, although HSTs were occasionally known to operate this).

Most of the winter timetable 2000/2001 saw a single Class 158 operate the working, but Class 47s did occasionally turn up. Summer 2001, and 47s are again the norm, occasionally deputised by HSTs.

 

[jon0844]

I think its because people make assumptions, first also run FCC, with their prosecution happy RPI's, and a lot of midrange bus companies.

Very loosely, virgin can be approximated as the premium brand of Stagecoach rail (I know its not quite right, but the less prestigious franchises are under the stagecoach brand) If FGW was branded differently, to remove the connotations of FCC and the like. Then I feel the brand could be better portrayed within the media.

I doubt most people have a clue about the involvement of Stagecoach in the Virgin Trains operation. I am sure they think of Virgin Atlantic and Richard Branson, and how Virgin is shaking up the industry etc.

My experience of FGW has been excellent. My parents also think they're excellent - and that's after having had a bad journey once that saw FGW giving them vouchers for free FC travel anywhere on their network! So, a bad experience dealt with extremely well has got them as regular customers whenever they travel there.

 

[GodAtum]

Id have to certainly agree that when it goes wrong with FGW, it tends to really go wrong! Even the most hardened commuters between Reading and Paddington dub the route as 'running the gauntlet!' Quite comical really but you can see there point. I do sometimes wonder what FGW's performance figures would be like excluding the Reading-Paddington stretch?

From my experience, the lines between Paddington and Reading are very poor. And because FGW stretches all the way down to Cornwall, if a problem happens down there it has a huge knock on effect.

I do wonder about the performance figures.

I persoanlly think FGW should split their long-distance HST and local commuter services into two different brands.

 

[Flamingo]

From my experience, the lines between Paddington and Reading are very poor. And because FGW stretches all the way down to Cornwall, if a problem happens down there it has a huge knock on effect.

I do wonder about the performance figures.

You have just hit the nail on the head there - the LINES are very poor. A huge ammount of delays are down to Network Rail, something most people either are not aware of, or ignore because it doesn't suit their agenda.

 

[jon0844]

On FCC specifically there are so many hate campaigns online with various websites and forums but I honestly believe that if they lost the franchise those sites would quickly become hate groups against the new operator as nothing will change as a result. The new franchise holder will still suffer exactly the same issues and challenges that first does.

Imagine if Virgin won it!

Of course, we can only imagine because Virgin wouldn't bid for it - or if it did, would create a new brand that would probably not feature the name at all.

I'm biased as a FCC GN user, but I think the service is mostly excellent. Nearly every problem is down to circumstances outside of FCC's control (and thus any operator) and even the 'problem' with RPIs isn't really a problem as I sympathise with their need to clamp down on a serious and real fare evasion problem.

The problem is only when RPIs get things wrong, which is about the only thing FCC can do something about.

PS. I think FCC (and by the sounds of it FGW and perhaps the others) went from being totally clueless about social media to probably being one of the best, using Twitter to provide useful information and engage with the customers. It's amazing to think how bad they were and how things changed overnight when someone within First Group must have realised it was important to get involved with. And well done to them for that; many other TOCs have only recently begun to catch up - and some still provide mostly automated responses.