Taking up more space/seats than you've paid for

[4SRKT]

I find it a bit odd that we are often told on this forum that buying a ticket is not buying a seat (usually by posters trying to defend high fares on overcrowded trains). Shurely if you are not buying a seat then there is no relation between the amount of money paid and the amount of space occupied, so this is an entirely specious thread

Anyway, there is clearly no such relationship when someone on a cheap advance is guaranteed a seat and a walk-on passenger who has just experienced open-wallet surgery is not.

 

[table38]

A family of six or seven managed to take over all four bays at the end of a BSO at the KWVR yesterday. At one point, one of them even decided to climb on the seats and stand on the table in a fifth bay to watch the locos run round at Oxenhope!

In my day, a swift "would you do that at home?" admonishment would have done the trick. These days, the kids probably would

 

[Temple Meads]

Most students I see on trains seem to insist on sitting on the floor in the vestibules, blocking the aisles with their rucksacks, when there are plenty of empty seats available in the carriages which they could sit on.

I don't know what services you usually see this on, but on Voyagers and Pendo's (among others) the vestibules are far more comfortable than the seats.

 

[northwichcat]

Anyway, there is clearly no such relationship when someone on a cheap advance is guaranteed a seat and a walk-on passenger who has just experienced open-wallet surgery is not.

They haven't purchased the same product though.

The one with the cheap advance is restricted to one service (plus any connections) if they wake up late, meeting overruns, bus service to station fails to turn up etc. and miss the booked departure they have to buy a new full priced ticket.

The one with the anytime single/return ticket is more than welcome to make seat reservations but they might not know which train they will be catching until it is too late to do so. They are also welcome to break their journey or chose an alternative permitted route.

Some operators like ATW and Southern do not offer seat reservations for Advance passengers while Virgin who do offer people with unrestricted tickets travelling at weekends a free First Class upgrade and TPE do something similar for season ticket holders travelling at the weekend.

Whatever type of ticket you buy there is a maximum permitted amount of luggage and you are not allowed to use it to take up a seat which another passenger requires.

 

[dvboy]

Sometimes I'll take up a bay of 6 seats to myself on a relatively empty class 323

 

[terryc]

Slightly O/T, but I remember travelling on a very busy VT DVT set from Euston to Glasgow a few years back. There were 2 scottish gentlemen :roll: who boarded the train armed with 'slabs' of Tennants Lager. They promptly stacked them up in a vestibule and used them as seats.
However by the time I left the train at Wigan, they had virtually drank themselves down to the floor!
Well behaved throughout the journey, I hasten to add, but certainly the worse for wear!

 

[work-traveller]

Each time I've been on the sleeper to Cornwall, folks have wondered in from the seated carriages, only to be very politely told they have to go back to their carriage.

Had similar experiences on the Highland sleeper too. Long as there's space for me to pitch up on one of the sofas I'm not fussed.

 

[RyanB]

Slightly O/T, but I remember travelling on a very busy VT DVT set from Euston to Glasgow a few years back. There were 2 scottish gentlemen :roll: who boarded the train armed with 'slabs' of Tennants Lager. They promptly stacked them up in a vestibule and used them as seats.
However by the time I left the train at Wigan, they had virtually drank themselves down to the floor!
Well behaved throughout the journey, I hasten to add, but certainly the worse for wear!

Not that I would condone such behaviour but anyone who can drink that much and still behave themselves should be congratulated, although they no doubt paid for it the next day.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not that I would condone such behaviour but anyone who can drink that much and still behave themselves should be congratulated

Anyone who can drink that much and still disembark from a train in a reasonably straight line is, quite possibly, to be congratulated, but as far as "behaving themselves" is concerned, drinking alcohol, even in copious amounts, does not automatically turn the majority of people who do so into anti-social louts, so there is really nothing out of the ordinary to be "congratulated" for there.

 

[HowardGWR]

Anyone who can drink that much and still disembark from a train in a reasonably straight line is, quite possibly, to be congratulated, but as far as "behaving themselves" is concerned, drinking alcohol, even in copious amounts, does not automatically turn the majority of people who do so into anti-social louts, so there is really nothing out of the ordinary to be "congratulated" for there.

I suppose they needed to be near the loo.

I would not like to be near people drinking heavily. We moved our seats to another coach a while back because an elderly couple were drinking heavily (but quietly) both from the trolley wine bottles and then spirits from hip flasks they were carrying. However, this was 1030 in the AM!

It's just unpleasant to be near that sort of behaviour.

 

[Holly]

Most students I see on trains seem to insist on sitting on the floor in the vestibules, blocking the aisles with their rucksacks, when there are plenty of empty seats available in the carriages which they could sit on.

Quite simply because they are very afraid of being separated from their luggage even for a moment.

Having had a rucksack stolen from you, as a young traveller, will do that to you.

A friend recently travelled from Milton Keynes to Clapham Junction as the middle leg of a long journey (Rhyl to Southampton). She complained that, even in First Class, the only possible place for her one big suitcase was on the non-too-large table (occupying all of it and more). Fortunately First Class was empty, apart from railway workers using it who knew better than to complain.

 

[Lockwood]

Quite simply because they are very afraid of being separated from their luggage even for a moment.

"Please do not leave cases or parcels unattended anywhere on the train. Any unattended items may be removed or destoryed without warning."

 

[quarella]

"Please do not leave cases or parcels unattended anywhere on the train. Any unattended items may be removed or destoryed without warning."

Travelled on a Cross Country Voyager last week and it had an excellent amount of luggage space in my carriage. Possibly the former shop area?? Realistically unusable as there is no way anyone could really see their luggage from where they were sat. Even so coats and small bags can be stored elsewhere and if you are travelling from a major city somewhere between 4pm and 6pm on a Friday night spreading your belongings around is plain selfish.
Travelling with friends in the past it amazes me how much some of them take. Their weekend case is larger than what I use for a week away.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Quite simply because they are very afraid of being separated from their luggage even for a moment.

Having had a rucksack stolen from you, as a young traveller, will do that to you.

Well exactly, in many respects they are just being sensible.

 

[Matt Taylor]

In addition the value of the contents is likely to be worth much more than it was in years gone by, specifically the financial value of laptops etc and the greater cost of possibly losing months of work should that bag go missing.

 

[northwichcat]

In addition the value of the contents is likely to be worth much more than it was in years gone by, specifically the financial value of laptops etc and the greater cost of possibly losing months of work should that bag go missing.

Plus a criminal gang were discovered to be stealing luggage from the TPE 185s so people who have heard that will want to be cautious. People may defend the 185 layout for quicker boarding and unloading but it also makes it easier for luggage to be stolen from the trains.

 

[quarella]

In addition the value of the contents is likely to be worth much more than it was in years gone by, specifically the financial value of laptops etc and the greater cost of possibly losing months of work should that bag go missing.

Times have changed. When I started my railway career in the early 1990s a BTP officer said that thieves would go for the cases and ignore the rucksacks because students rarely had anything worth nicking. Quite frightening the value of things we cart around now,

 

[Crossover]

Plus a criminal gang were discovered to be stealing luggage from the TPE 185s so people who have heard that will want to be cautious. People may defend the 185 layout for quicker boarding and unloading but it also makes it easier for luggage to be stolen from the trains.

How long ago was that?

A few years ago I nearly had my case nicked off a 185 (as much as I like 185's, luggage provision is pretty bad!)

Standing in the doorway or aisle near my luggage on most trains is something I did regularly

 

[DeeGee]

I'm often to be found in the vestibule.

If I'm travelling to an important race, I have stuff (well broken-in shoes and kit, nutrition etc) in my rucksack that I can't just replace if the case gets nicked or goes missing (I'm not walking around the Railway network in a running vest and shorts, so it's going in my bag).

If I'm travelling back from an important race regular standing up and walking around stops my legs from seizing up, and it feels wrong to impose upon the stranger sat next to me.

 

[northwichcat]

How long ago was that?

A few years ago I nearly had my case nicked off a 185 (as much as I like 185's, luggage provision is pretty bad!)

Standing in the doorway or aisle near my luggage on most trains is something I did regularly

The ones operating in the Huddersfield/Dewsbury areas were early 2012
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/loca...-600-from-train-86081-30256752/#ixzz1lVyP3qgv

However, other thefts have been reported such as
http://www.theadvertiserseries.co.uk/news/9623351.Police_probe_over_Durham_luggage_theft/

 

[tiptoptaff]

I always, and I mean always, use the luggage racks (where available) when I travel. As, I often travel with a wee bit of kit. Today, like most Fridays for me, is a good example. I have to travel with a suitcase, a holdall, my coat and a laptop bag. Exactly how much space will I take up on the 1721 Cardiff Central to Hereford which will be full and standing? Half a shelf of a luggage rack for my case and bag, a portion of the rack directly above my seat for my coat and laptop bag and a single seat. How much will I interefere with another passanger? Zero. It's not hard, any body who takes up copious amounts of room is just rude and inconsiderate.

 

[sheff1]

I always, and I mean always, use the luggage racks (where available) when I travel ....

It's not hard, any body who takes up copious amounts of room is just rude and inconsiderate.

It is very hard indeed on Branson's Voyagers . Any normal sized suitcase will not fit on the ridculously sized luggage racks. The luggage stacks are nowhere near big enough to accommodate all the luggage from a full carriage worth of passengers.

XC have tried to improve matters by introducing extra luggage room where the shop was but, as has been pointed out, there your luggage is out of sight behind doors and we are constantly exhorted to "keep your luggage with you and in sight at all times".

 

[SeanG]

See I never want to lose sight of my luggage whn travelling, so won't put it in the luggage racks unless I'm sat next to them

 

[EssexGonzo]

So rather than stand next to it somewhere you'll deny someone a seat or some legroom?

 

[CNash]

As I travel at quiet, off-peak times, I place my bag on the seat next to me for ease of access and comfort (can rest my arm on it). If the train's filling up unexpectedly, I'll shift it to my lap, and back again once it empties out. If someone has a burning desire to take the seat next to me, they only have to ask politely (or attempt to sit on my bag!) and I'll move it and let them. But given that typically 80-90% of the train is empty, this doesn't happen that often.

 

[SeanG]

So rather than stand next to it somewhere you'll deny someone a seat or some legroom?

No, I was meaning that I will not sit and will stand next to luggage racks or with my bags.

I'd feel embarrassed if I was taking up more than one seat

 

[CC 72100]

Seen a bloke with an office chair on a pacer this morn... put in the way of another two seats. Maybe the leather finish on the chair helps to counteract the bouncing.... who knows?!