ATW May 2013 Timetable

[Swirlz]

train
plus Fishguard is the UKs only station that allows smoking on the platform.

Bob

Well there's 60 just in Merseyside that permit smoking on platforms!

(Merseyrail only bans smoking in the Underground sections).

 

[merlodlliw]

Well there's 60 just in Merseyside that permit smoking on platforms!

(Merseyrail only bans smoking in the Underground sections).

Thats interesting, as I recall Fishguard getting dispensation for safety reasons,the station is owned by Stenna, do the Merseyrail stations have dispensation or just not bothered,out of interest

 

[IanD]

Well there's 60 just in Merseyside that permit smoking on platforms!

(Merseyrail only bans smoking in the Underground sections).

What about the whole of Scotland where the same policy applies?? They haven't left the UK (yet).

 

[merlodlliw]

What about the whole of Scotland where the same policy applies?? They haven't left the UK (yet).

Not sure what you mean, out of all respect.

Bob

 

[transmanche]

Well there's 60 just in Merseyside that permit smoking on platforms!

(Merseyrail only bans smoking in the Underground sections).

Bit of a difference of opinion here...

Merseytravel: "Smoking is not allowed on any Merseyrail train, station or platform area."

Merseyrail: "Merseyrail operate a smoke-free policy on all of our trains and sub-surface stations, this includes waiting shelters on platforms."

 

[swcovas]

What about the whole of Scotland where the same policy applies?? They haven't left the UK (yet).

Scotrail website says:

"Smoking is not permitted in enclosed areas at ScotRail stations (i.e. areas with at least three walls and a roof). This is in line with legislation."

Does that mean that smoking is allowed on platforms but not in buildings including shelters? Isn't smoking banned anywhere on stations including platforms at the remotest of unstaffed halts in Eng & Wales. If so it sounds that things are different in Scotland......or am I mistaken? I'm curious!

 

[Greenback]

Scotrail website says:

"Smoking is not permitted in enclosed areas at ScotRail stations (i.e. areas with at least three walls and a roof). This is in line with legislation."

Does that mean that smoking is allowed on platforms but not in buildings including shelters? Isn't smoking banned anywhere on stations including platforms at the remotest of unstaffed halts in Eng & Wales. If so it sounds that things are different in Scotland......or am I mistaken? I'm curious!

I believe that things are different in Scotland. Smoking is permitted in non enclosed areas, as stated.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I thought Network Rail had baned smoking on their property period, perhaps even before the national ban on 'smoking in public places' which really is just a ban on 'smoking in enclosed public spaces'.

 

[IanD]

Not sure what you mean, out of all respect.

Bob

I mean Scotland are to have a vote on independence which may result in them leaving the UK but that vote has not yet taken place so Scotland is still very much part of the UK.

And smoking is allowed on Scotland's station platforms that are not enclosed (except Glasgow Central).

 

[tiptoptaff]

Alas, once again the long promised 2tph to PYC has not materialised. Shocking....

 

[anthony263]

Alas, once again the long promised 2tph to PYC has not materialised. Shocking....

If you mean Pontyclun, ATW simply dont have the resources really to run 2tph calling at all stations between Cardiff & Bridgend.

I think we will be waiting until the wires reach beyond Bridgend to Swansea and it is live so some emu's can be brought in.

 

[DaveHarries]

ATW have now posted many of the changes on their website. Some interesting ones too.
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/240413TimetableChange/

Dave

 

[Rhydgaled]

ATW have now posted many of the changes on their website. Some interesting ones too.
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/240413TimetableChange/

Dave

Is Gowerton really going to remain a request stop? I thought it would become a mandatory stop once the redoubling was done.

 

[anthony263]

A lot of the services on the timetable I have got only show some of the heart of wales line services calling @ Gowerton on request.

The Pembroke Dock/Milford Haven - Swansea call at Gowerton but show nothing saying only on request like some of teh other stations in west wales

 

[SprinterMan]

As I understand it the night boat train from Holyhead was cancelled due to insufficient demand at that time. Here is a newspaper article from the time.

Apparently at the time the ferry companies couldn't make a case for retention of the service due to insufficient numbers.

However in the few short intervening years there has been a marked resurgence in travel by rail and sea (publically documented by many ferry companies).

I further understand that the present situation is that security would be needed on a night train out of Holyhead and that the cost of this is apparently why a train around 01.30/02.00 ex Holyhead hasn't been introduced to date. While any night train would be primarily used by ferry passengers it stands to reason that there would be some usage of it (e.g. for long distance travel & for returning home after a night out) from the key North Wales stations it would likely serve.

At the moment Bus Éireann-Eurolines take the majority of overnight passengers from Dublin bound for London/Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds. In fact it is possible to board these coaches in Holyhead even if one has not travelled by ferry at all. Their Dublin to London coach is usually full (or close to full) departing Dublin and at times an extra coach is needed. Usage of the Dublin-Leeds (via Chester, Liverpool, Manchester) overnight coach fluctuates. The coaches naturally take longer but the plus is there is no change required and one can sleep the whole way from Holyhead to London Victoria.

The "midnight" ferry arrivals are:
00.20 (20.55 Irish Ferries cruise ferry Ulysses from Dublin)
00.45 (21.15 Stena Line superferry Stena Adventurer from Dublin)
Both of these are large ferries which are very weather-resilient. The giant that is Irish Ferries Ulysses can handle pretty much any tempest the Irish Sea can throw at it and gets across no matter what.

The 11.55 Holyhead-Euston really needs to run daily at perhaps 12.10/15 ex Holyhead. Having travelled at this time during the week and considering a lot of ferry passengers are London-bound it's not user-friendly taking one train Holyhead to Bangor and waiting at Bangor for around twenty minutes before continuing.

Mid-morning ferry arrivals at Holyhead are:
10.45 (08.45 Irish Ferries Jonathan Swift fast ferry from Dublin; this can be cancelled in high winds and passengers transferred to the cruise ferry)
11.30 (08.05 Irish Ferries cruise ferry Ulysses from Dublin)
11.50 (08.20 Stena Line Stena Adventurer superferry from Dublin)

Thanks. My opinion is that security should not be an issue but that's what I heard was/is apparently a reason. And with CCTV being the norm I think that any troublemakers will think twice. Even if a few "clubbers" use a night train the vast majority are either quiet or just a bit loud/chatty with their mates but not threatening in any way to other passengers.

Another side is that a few passengers could become troublesome as a result of drinking on the ferry (lucky them if they have the cash to splash on more than a modest drink or two in these recessionary times!) but then there are the staff on the ferry and authorities at Holyhead who can deal with any such passengers before they get anywhere near a train.

Interestingly it's been my experience anytime I've used the overnight coach that the driver makes an announcement setting out from Holyhead that in the event of any trouble he will simply contact the police. No harm in a similar announcement/recording on the train if the train operator has a concern. I daresay if a train operator has a concern it may be possible for night police patrols in the few towns the train is stopping in to make a brief appearance at the station at train time.

Whether it's Ireland, Wales, England etc there's an inherent small risk of a problem on nighttime regional transport but a 1 in 100 or a 1 in 1000 chance of a problem can't be used as an excuse not to provide a service in the first instance. Perhaps there's some aspect of this I'm missing or an issue train operators perceive or believe to exist that we don't know about.

One night over 20 years ago on the 01.50 from Fishguard Harbour myself and a family member were being bothered a bit by a man (could have been two men as my memory of it is vague) repeatedly insistent on shaking our hands and the guard allowed us to travel in first class (that was in the days of the HST). Around Christmas a few years ago one passenger started singing and for those of us not already dozing it was amusing! Last trip the only sound was some passengers snoring and the guard having a chat with a passenger (nothing wrong with that). Safe as houses.

Thank you so much for this information, I have wondered for many years why the overnight train was cancelled. I assumed it was lack of patronage and Virgin not wanting to put a Voyager on a diagram that would would put it on a bizarre maintenance schedule due to increased demand because of the VHF timetable. Thanks very much for confirming this. What was the 0150 or 0215 HHD-BHM is now effectively the 2020 Bangor - Birmingham New Street, which while useless to ferry passengers, is much more useful to the residents of Bangor and towns along the coast.

I myself have had a rather interesting experience with night trains in North Wales. I am a student at Bangor University, and I was in a nightclub with friends which I became separated from. I couldn't find them anywhere, and so left the club. There were no buses back to the village where I live at this time of night, so in a rather bizarre bout of poorly considered drunken pseudo-logic, I boarded the 0145 to Holyhead. Despite my intoxicated state, I managed to purchase the correct ticket from the TVM at Bangor, and was in the delightful port of Holyhead before I knew it. After several lonely hours of walking round a desolate and lonely Holyhead looking for a kebab shop, I returned to Bangor on the 0425 service, vowing never to travel drunkenly to Holyhead at night ever again.

Adam

 

[Greenback]

Is Gowerton really going to remain a request stop? I thought it would become a mandatory stop once the redoubling was done.

Yes, it would seem so, though it is quite rare to be on a train now, even in off peak, where a train booked to call at Gowerton does not actually stop!

Unsurprisingly, in almost six years of regular commuting, I have never known a peak hour service fail to stop!

This is all backed up bt ATW's information poste ron the enw timetable at Swansea which proudly states that Gowerton will be served by an additional fifteen trains per day (not Sundays, presumably!), on request.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thank you so much for this information, I have wondered for many years why the overnight train was cancelled. I assumed it was lack of patronage and Virgin not wanting to put a Voyager on a diagram that would would put it on a bizarre maintenance schedule due to increased demand because of the VHF timetable. Thanks very much for confirming this. What was the 0150 or 0215 HHD-BHM is now effectively the 2020 Bangor - Birmingham New Street, which while useless to ferry passengers, is much more useful to the residents of Bangor and towns along the coast.

I myself have had a rather interesting experience with night trains in North Wales. I am a student at Bangor University, and I was in a nightclub with friends which I became separated from. I couldn't find them anywhere, and so left the club. There were no buses back to the village where I live at this time of night, so in a rather bizarre bout of poorly considered drunken pseudo-logic, I boarded the 0145 to Holyhead. Despite my intoxicated state, I managed to purchase the correct ticket from the TVM at Bangor, and was in the delightful port of Holyhead before I knew it. After several lonely hours of walking round a desolate and lonely Holyhead looking for a kebab shop, I returned to Bangor on the 0425 service, vowing never to travel drunkenly to Holyhead at night ever again.

Adam

I bet you never have!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I myself have had a rather interesting experience with night trains in North Wales. I am a student at Bangor University, and I was in a nightclub with friends which I became separated from. I couldn't find them anywhere, and so left the club. There were no buses back to the village where I live at this time of night, so in a rather bizarre bout of poorly considered drunken pseudo-logic, I boarded the 0145 to Holyhead. Despite my intoxicated state, I managed to purchase the correct ticket from the TVM at Bangor, and was in the delightful port of Holyhead before I knew it. After several lonely hours of walking round a desolate and lonely Holyhead looking for a kebab shop, I returned to Bangor on the 0425 service, vowing never to travel drunkenly to Holyhead at night ever again.

Adam [/QUOTE]

That is some tale! To be honest spending time ( or doing time) in Holyhead at any time of day is something I find difficult, so your tale of wandering around in the early hours really made me feel for you.
On both of the occasions when I have caught the night ferry to Dublin, I have seen passengers arrive and express some incredulity that there weren't any trains until 04h25, firstly a group of young men impeccably behaved, the second a group of older men that made me feel glad that I was going in the opposite direction.
I do wonder how many people do have to wait each night at Holyhead,

 

[SprinterMan]

I bet you never have!

That is some tale! To be honest spending time ( or doing time) in Holyhead at any time of day is something I find difficult, so your tale of wandering around in the early hours really made me feel for you.
On both of the occasions when I have caught the night ferry to Dublin, I have seen passengers arrive and express some incredulity that there weren't any trains until 04h25, firstly a group of young men impeccably behaved, the second a group of older men that made me feel glad that I was going in the opposite direction.
I do wonder how many people do have to wait each night at Holyhead,

It is not an experience I wish to repeat. I ended up sitting on a bench on the waterfront, and as the ferry came past, I suddenly sobered up a little bit and wondered what I was doing there. It was a really surreal and weird moment. At some point during my ordeal I seem to have taken a photograph of a Voyager in platform 1, shown below. It is a real shame the boat train no longer happens, as I imagine it would be very useful to ferry passengers, I can see why VT do not want to operate it as it would mean having a Voyager on an odd maintenance schedule and unavailable during the day, but ATW should have picked up the train when VT dropped it. I am almost tempted to email them about it.

Adam

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Glad the info was of interest SprinterMan. When the ships used to tie up at the station berth Platform 1 was very close to the ferry but this last number of years the Inner Harbour is permanently sealed off by the bridges and apart from the Stena HSS to Dun Laoghaire (which uses the berth at the ferry terminal) all the other vessels use berths at Admiralty Pier/Salt Island.

The retail areas out of town at Penrhos have sucked much of the life out of Central Holyhead but a few good shops still remain in the town. The Celtic Gateway Bridge has made it easier to access the town or nip across between ferry and train if possible.

Hopefully at some stage in the future an early hours train will be reintroduced.

Does anyone know what the planned improvements to Holyhead station will entail?

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Duchess of Cambridge has certainly been seen shopping at the Tescos at Penrhos but not to my knowledge in the town centre. The steel bridge direct from the town centre to the ferry port was a attempt using European money to encourage visitors to the town centre but appears to have been unsuccesful.

 

[anthony263]

I have noticed on summer saturdays that the 1000 Pembrok Dock - London Paddington service has been retimed to leave Pembroke 1 minute later and no longer call Killgetty or Narbeth like it did last year.

Normally it was the 14:55 from Pembroke Dock to London which would run limited stop between Pembroke Dock and Whitland. This year though now the 14:55 calls at all statione between Pembroke Dock and Tenby.

I suspect this will make it easier for holiday makers to have a longer day before returning home on the train. Certainly these hst's are well used with the majority of passengers getting off at Saundersfoot or Tenby.

 

[SprinterMan]

Glad the info was of interest SprinterMan. When the ships used to tie up at the station berth Platform 1 was very close to the ferry but this last number of years the Inner Harbour is permanently sealed off by the bridges and apart from the Stena HSS to Dun Laoghaire (which uses the berth at the ferry terminal) all the other vessels use berths at Admiralty Pier/Salt Island.

I was at Holyhead today, and had a chat with a lovely guy at Arriva customer services about the overnight boat train. Arriva stopped operating it in 2005 or 2006 due to the amount of problems caused by drunks. It got to the point where Arriva didn't want to run the train anymore because of these problems (I assume they didn't want to endanger staff or passengers). Virgin then picked up the train, but ran into the same problems as Arriva did. The train was not heavily used by ferry passengers, who were outnumbered by drunks who caused problems. Virgin unsurprisingly pulled the train, and gave us the 2020 Bangor - Birmingham instead. The toilets in Holyhead ferry terminal are 24/7 now, and there is a cafe open until 2, and the wait for the 0425 train is only just over 2 hours longer than for the old 0215 anyway, so it is not the end of the world. While inconvenient, apparently the 0425 is much safer than the old 0215 was (I can vouch for the fact that the 0425 is very quiet and a relaxing travel environment).

It was different from the Fishguard boat train, as Fishguard Harbour station only served the ferry terminal and not the town (this situation has changed slightly with the new station at Goodwick) and the first town of any size the train passed through was Carmarthen, when it was only 40mins from journey's end. Holyhead & Bangor are both sizeable towns, and the train had to go all the way to Birmingham through Chester and Crewe, meaning there was a much greater chance for rowdiness. As much as a kick in the teeth it is for ferry passengers, I do now sympathise with the TOCs, and 2 hours really isn't the end of the world now there are loos. I was also told that there is as near as makes no difference no chance of the train making a comeback.

Adam

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

ATW have now posted many of the changes on their website. Some interesting ones too.
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/240413TimetableChange/
Dave

The late evening trains between Chester and Manchester are back from 9 September, following the completion of electrification work east of Newton-le-Willows.
Only four months to finish the wiring, chaps!

 

[DaveHarries]

Just a thought which crosses my mind in respect of commuter traffic on the HoW.

At the moment there is no commuter service into Swansea on the HoW although there are buses for Ammanford. However there is nothing to / from Cardiff and now there will be nothing of that sort except by connection.

My suggestion would be to revise one local stopper per day (Mondays to Fridays only, BHX) to run to / from Cardiff for commuter traffic. Could be done by one of the following means:

a) Simply extend one of the local Swansea - Cardiff stoppers to start from Llandovery (for example) and to call only at Llandeilo, Ammanford, Pantyffynnon and Llanelli before running via. Gowerton to Swansea and then running as normal.

b) Revise one of the local stoppers to start from Llandovery, then call at Llandeilo, Ammanford & Pantyffynnon, then to Hendy Junction and direct to Briton Ferry and all stops to Cardiff. Misses Skewen & Llansamlet but a couple of the Milford Haven 170s could be changed to call at those two stations.

c) Same as a) but use the avoiding line round the back of Landore HST depot, thereby bypassing Swansea station.

Just ideas.
Dave

 

[swcovas]

Just a thought which crosses my mind in respect of commuter traffic on the HoW.

At the moment there is no commuter service into Swansea on the HoW although there are buses for Ammanford. However there is nothing to / from Cardiff and now there will be nothing of that sort except by connection.

My suggestion would be to revise one local stopper per day (Mondays to Fridays only, BHX) to run to / from Cardiff for commuter traffic. Could be done by one of the following means:

a) Simply extend one of the local Swansea - Cardiff stoppers to start from Llandovery (for example) and to call only at Llandeilo, Ammanford, Pantyffynnon and Llanelli before running via. Gowerton to Swansea and then running as normal.

b) Revise one of the local stoppers to start from Llandovery, then call at Llandeilo, Ammanford & Pantyffynnon, then to Hendy Junction and direct to Briton Ferry and all stops to Cardiff. Misses Skewen & Llansamlet but a couple of the Milford Haven 170s could be changed to call at those two stations.

c) Same as a) but use the avoiding line round the back of Landore HST depot, thereby bypassing Swansea station.

Just ideas.
Dave

A nice idea but it just ain't going to happen at the moment!!! At presen t the services on the HOWL are the subject of a "study" to look at the best way to improve services on the line. The study is apparently being undertaken from a point zero perspective as opposed to tweaking existing services which hopefully some time in the not too distant future will result in a recast timetable to meet the not inconsiderable variety of needs along the length of the line. We can but hope!

 

[SprinterMan]

I heard a rumour a while ago about more LHCS service being introduced in December 2013. Has anyone heard anything else about this?

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

I heard a rumour a while ago about more LHCS service being introduced in December 2013. Has anyone heard anything else about this?

Adam

ATW Director Mike Bagshaw was asked this question at the Wrexham meeting in March, other than running "Gerald" on special occasions, no was the answer, due to cost of running LHCS sets.
I have not heard any different, I am sure it was a rumor.

 

[PHILIPE]

I suggest you treat it as a rumour as they are not allowed to work franchised services unless specially authorised by DFT and only in exceptional and not normal circumstances.

 

[anthony263]

I suggest you treat it as a rumour as they are not allowed to work franchised services unless specially authorised by DFT and only in exceptional and not normal circumstances.

I have to agree with you. The only reason I can see atw using more loco hauled rakes (Most likely making use of the mark2 carriages they have) is if they have to provide extra capacity and thats if they are given permission.

The WG did want additional rolling stock from 2015 especially if services run to Rhymney every 30 minutes and the services to Maesteg is increased in frequency.

The only way ATW could really do that is to cut existing services, get hold of additional rolling stock from elsewhere in the uk which will be difficult considering everyone else will be after the same thing.

Of course they could do something very drastic and re-introduce loco hauled services to certain routes on the Cardiff Valley Lines network (i.e. The Rhymney Valley services) The problem with that is that locos will need to run round or perhaps push-pull of course this will mean ATW will need to get hold of some DBSO's and some loco's as well as making sure the mark 2's are wired.

The WG will have to find the money to pay for this however.

In my personal opinion it is more likely that we will see FGW returning to some loco hauled operation to release some class 165/166's to go away for refurbishment.