Wymondham Signal Box

[anglia.rail]

Does wymondham still have their traditional signal box? Because I understand network rail are removing many signal boxes replacing them with CCTV and an operator.
Also how many services go east on the branch line towards dereham? Does anyone have any diagrams for this line plus services departing, arriving and passing through wymondham?
If you did it would be very much appreciated, even if you have a link on where I can find out what units/ services plus times around wymondham.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

IIRC the box is still there, though it has been resignalled through there. No passenger services go towards Dereham from Wymondham, though they do go from Wymondham Abbey! (a 15 min walk from the main station)

 

[Bald Rick]

Wymondham 'box closed in December.

 

[anglia.rail]

IIRC the box is still there, though it has been resignalled through there. No passenger services go towards Dereham from Wymondham, though they do go from Wymondham Abbey! (a 15 min walk from the main station)

thanks for informing me on that.
Do freight (or empty of passenger) services pass through wymondham and on that line?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wymondham 'box closed in December.

Are there any plans to demolish it?
I think that Is one of the best looking signal boxes and would be a shame to demolish it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wymondham 'box closed in December.

Are there any plans to demolish it?
I think that Is one of the best looking signal boxes and would be a shame to demolish it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

thanks for informing me on that.
Do freight (or empty of passenger) services pass through wymondham and on that line?

The connection is in use for stock transfers to the MNR, along with visiting locomotives for events and such. Not aware of any scheduled freight services though.

 

[anglia.rail]

The connection is in use for stock transfers to the MNR, along with visiting locomotives for events and such. Not aware of any scheduled freight services though.

Is the MNR the mid-norfolk rail heritage line?
If it is How often do locos often go along the line, and what class are they?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is the MNR the mid-norfolk rail heritage line?

Yes, sorry- should've used the full name initially!

 

[anglia.rail]

Yes, sorry- should've used the full name initially!

Don't worry, it was fine. I had an idea of what it could stand for but wanted to double check
Thanks for info, much appreciated

 

[TheEdge]

Are there any plans to demolish it?
I think that Is one of the best looking signal boxes and would be a shame to demolish it.

I think I've heard somewhere that the Mid Norfolk are looking at/have bought it and are going to move it. Not sure of the plans for the other boxes along the route. All the boxes between Norwich and Ely closed in December replaced with radar controlled crossings and signals controlled by Cambridge.

As part of my training got to go into Wymondham box just before it closed, interesting to watch it in use and then on the same day I was in Colchester PSB, the difference was just amazing.

 

[anglia.rail]

I think I've heard somewhere that the Mid Norfolk are looking at/have bought it and are going to move it. Not sure of the plans for the other boxes along the route. All the boxes between Norwich and Ely closed in December replaced with radar controlled crossings and signals controlled by Cambridge.

As part of my training got to go into Wymondham box just before it closed, interesting to watch it in use and then on the same day I was in Colchester PSB, the difference was just amazing.

I love the traditional signal boxes and don't get why they are removing them. I hope MNR do buy it, cos it would be a really shame to demolish it.

 

[TheEdge]

I love the traditional signal boxes and don't get why they are removing them. I hope MNR do buy it, cos it would be a really shame to demolish it.

Because they are a massively outdated system and are very very heavy on the amount of resources they need to run. The Breckland line used to have (I think) 9 boxes, now it is a single extra panel at an existing PSB.

 

[High Dyke]

Because they are a massively outdated system and are very very heavy on the amount of resources they need to run. The Breckland line used to have (I think) 9 boxes, now it is a single extra panel at an existing PSB.

Apart from the drain on resources due to the level crossing equipment not working correctly...thus meaning staff are deployed at each former 'closed' location to operate the crossing equipment; not to mention the amount of train delays this 'new' equipment is causing!

 

[anglia.rail]

Apart from the drain on resources due to the level crossing equipment not working correctly...thus meaning staff are deployed at each former 'closed' location to operate the crossing equipment; not to mention the amount of train delays this 'new' equipment is causing!

What is the technology causing problems?????
Also is it less safe because there is no one on the level crossing in case there's problems (e.g. car stuck on level crossing)?????

Plus does that mean the people working there were made redundant/ make less jobs? because that is a negative effect.

 

[TheEdge]

Yes they do have the odd problem but in reality the new system is far more efficient than the old one.

 

[anglia.rail]

Yes they do have the odd problem but in reality the new system is far more efficient than the old one.

I hope everyone who worked at signal boxes weren't made redundant/ unemployed.
Are they working in the Cambridge control room?

 

[TheEdge]

What is the technology causing problems?????
Also is it less safe because there is no one on the level crossing in case there's problems (e.g. car stuck on level crossing)?????

Plus does that mean the people working there were made redundant/ make less jobs? because that is a negative effect.

The main issue has been the system uses radar to detect obstruction on the crossings before clearing associated signals, during the recent snowy weather snow build up on the radomes was confusing the crossings.

They are probably safer than human operated crossings given the fact they wont clear signals until they detect themselves as clear. And before anyone says a human signalman would never do that I direct you towards Moreton-on-Lugg.

Yes, I think people did loose their jobs or moved to other signalling centres. I believe the man at Wymondham retired when the box closed.

 

[anglia.rail]

The main issue has been the system uses radar to detect obstruction on the crossings before clearing associated signals, during the recent snowy weather snow build up on the radomes was confusing the crossings.

I think moving with the times Is a good idea. I think I will miss the signal boxes as they did add character to the line but at least it will be safer now. I just hope we don't get no more snow otherwise there may been loads of delays.

 

[Bald Rick]

MNR were after Wymondham 'box - it was the oldest on the line - not sure on progress there.

The MCB-OD (radar) automatic crossings are safer than those controlled by a chap on the crossing. In my 3 years looking after them I had three incidents where signallers / crossing keepers had trains bearing down on an erroneously open crossing, and in one case at Harling Road a train demolishad a set of crossing gates, and a driver had some dry cleaning to do. It is not possible for the automatic crossings to do this (unless when operated locally by a human).

Of the approx 50 people who worked in 'boxes on the line, some retired, some took voluntary redundancy, and some got other jobs in NR. Only 6 were needed for the new workstation at Cambridge.

 

[anglia.rail]

Of the approx 50 people who worked in 'boxes on the line, some retired, some took voluntary redundancy, and some got other jobs in NR. Only 6 were needed for the new workstation at Cambridge.

I'm glad no one lost their job. This step is better for years to come so even though have against opinions, they balance with how good this could be for the British rail industry.

 

[High Dyke]

What is the technology causing problems?????
Also is it less safe because there is no one on the level crossing in case there's problems (e.g. car stuck on level crossing)?????

Plus does that mean the people working there were made redundant/ make less jobs? because that is a negative effect.

The crossings are 'Obstacle Detection' type crossings - each crossing is supervised by radar. If when the radar does it various 'sweeps' of the crossing it detects an object/car/person on the crossing it stops the lowering sequence and will not clear protecting signals. RSSB report issues with these types of crossing. Fog, heavy rain, snow and dust/roadside detritus are also causing problems.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/RESEARCH/Lists/DispForm_Custom.aspx?ID=121

Project Information

T number T729
Project Further work on obstacle detection at level crossings
Description The risk from using obstacle detection systems to check that level crossings are clear of people and objects was compared to the risk of using a signaller to do the same task.
Abstract At many level crossings on public roads in Great Britain, a signaller checks visually to see whether it is safe to allow trains over the crossing. The signaller checks, either locally or remotely via CCTV, for vehicles, pedestrians and objects that might become trapped between the gates/barriers. Obstacle detection systems are now used for this task in some European countries. This project, sponsored by the Road Rail Interface Safety Group, explored the benefits and likely risk profiles of using obstacle detection systems on the GB network building on the previous study, T522 Obstacle detection at level crossings, which was published in 2006. Obstacle detection systems were found to be broadly neutral in terms of risk compared to conventional checks by a signaller, with one exception. The study found that a significant risk would be introduced if the current design of obstacle detector were to be introduced because the design does not detect users who are prostrate on the level crossing, perhaps as the result of a trip, a fall, or a medical condition. As a result of this research, Network Rail is now basing its safety case on mitigating the additional risk by the use of a second, complementary, obstacle detection system. Trials of the revised approach are in progress.
Topic Road-Rail Interface
Status Complete

 

[Sleepy]

Sure the Bean counters at GA and EMT are rubbing their hands at the amount of money flowing into the bank due to the NR caused delays !

 

[Trainfan344]

As a add-on to this, does anyone know what the platforms are like at wymondham, are they sheltered, as I am planning a trip in May, and it's either an hour and a half at norwich, or a 45 minute wait at wymondham

 

[TheEdge]

They are sheltered and there are benches there but that is about it. Passing through is going to be, unless you happen to catch a freight, entirely GA 170s and EMT 158s. Although there is a nice cafe that does a decent fry up in the old buildings.

 

[High Dyke]

They are sheltered and there are benches there but that is about it. Passing through is going to be, unless you happen to catch a freight, entirely GA 170s and EMT 158s. Although there is a nice cafe that does a decent fry up in the old buildings.

Station info here - photo's still show semaphores:
http://www.wymondham-station.com/index.php?f=data_home&a=0

 

[TheEdge]

Before we go too much further down this route I am a conductor for GA and have passed through Wymondham 4 times today alone.

The semaphores are gone, the posts are still there. That signal (down) has been replaced by a searchlight a fair distance beyond it, the up starter and up starter on the down platform have both been replaced with searchlight signals.

 

[anglia.rail]

Before we go too much further down this route I am a conductor for GA and have passed through Wymondham 4 times today alone.

The semaphores are gone, the posts are still there. That signal (down) has been replaced by a searchlight a fair distance beyond it, the up starter and up starter on the down platform have both been replaced with searchlight signals.

How long have you worked for greater Anglia?
Did it take quite long to get employed once you applied?
I would like too work in rail industry (either train driver or guard) but don't know what qualifications i need and how likely I a to get a job
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Going back onto the topic of the breckland line. Has the management improved (I.e. more trains on time) since the line was upgraded (I.e. signals, level crossings)

 

[Tomnick]

They are probably safer than human operated crossings given the fact they wont clear signals until they detect themselves as clear. And before anyone says a human signalman would never do that I direct you towards Moreton-on-Lugg.

I can't let this one go unchallenged. The accident at Moreton-on-Lugg wasn't caused by the Signalman clearing signals towards an obstructed crossing, so I don't see how the reference is relevant. Perhaps have a read of the RAIB report?

 

[TheEdge]

Ok, got that the wrong way round, raising barriers when a train was approaching. The reference was more that having a person stood in a signal box next to crossing is not necessarily foolproof when compared to these automatic radar crossings. Reference still remains fairly relevant.

 

[Tomnick]

Hmm, the obstacle detection has nothing to do with raising the barriers, so these crossings are no different in that respect to a CCTV crossing or indeed one worked from an adjacent box with approach locking (as most do). Leaving aside the hole in the locking at Moreton-on-Lugg and a handful of other crossings (mostly now resolved), it shouldn't be possible to raise the barriers in front of a normally-signalled train; during degraded working, it will - under certain conditions - be possible at any of those types of crossing, but arguably less likely when the chap controlling it can see everything going on around.

 

[lincolnshire]

I love the traditional signal boxes and don't get why they are removing them. I hope MNR do buy it, cos it would be a really shame to demolish it.

Network Rail want rid of them as its a link with the past when the railway was a proper joined up railway not like now.

They will do anything to save money at the bottom end, just look at the offices full of staff around the country ?, what do they all do?

If they could do it they would rmeove all the old B.R. staff if they could from Network Rail.