Baroness Thatcher has died

[wintonian]

Isn't that what I said ? absolute free speech is illegal, you cannot exercise your right to say exactly what you want only what is not deemed offensive.

Okey so where in these statues that you have just carted out does is prohibit the buying or playing of music in order to positively mark someone's death?

As for only being able to things that are not offensive that sounds a bit like the Chinese version of free speech - 2you are allowed to say anything you like unless we the government find it offensive". Besides who is to decide what is offensive or not? Or is that decided by the state via statute?

 

[4SRKT]

Okey so where in these statues that you have just carted out does is prohibit the buying or playing of music in order to positively mark someone's death?

As for only being able to things that are not offensive that sounds a bit like the Chinese version of free speech - 2you are allowed to say anything you like unless we the government find it offensive". Besides who is to decide what is offensive or not? Or is that decided by the state via statute?

I wouldn't bother with this. Soon he will simply be rolling his eyes and dismissing everything you say as typical of left wingers.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Isn't that what I said ? absolute free speech is illegal, you cannot exercise your right to say exactly what you want only what is not deemed offensive.

Stephen Fry puts it better than I ever could:

It’s now very common to hear people say “I’m rather offended by that”, as if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually no more than a whine. “I find that offensive”. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. “I’m offended by that”, well so ****ing what?

 

[swj99]

Someone pointed out in relation to that and the cost of the Funeral - £10 Million ??? the rebate she achieved from The EU has been worth £75 Billion to the UK so far.

Mind you I think it was William Hague

However, a report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers suggests that she missed the opportunity to create a £450bn nest egg for Britain if the revenue from north sea oil had been saved rather than used to fund tax cuts for the wealthy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/27/economics.oil

More info here - http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.c...e-debunking-the-greatest-myth-of-thatcherism/

I forgot about the "We have no idea what were talking about but we like a good argument anyway" crowed that jumped on board.

Fair point. I suppose it raises the question of how best to define who fits into that category, given that not all people with valid opinions and experience have the communication skills to express those views. (and for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not referring to anyone on here.)

One question someone may know the answer to. Who gets the money from the sales of the song, seeing as it’s from a film released in 1939 ?

So it's okey for people to exercise their right to free speech as along as you don't tell anyone about it. :roll:

This censorship has just made me buy it - until then I wasn't going to.

Lots of people have said the same.
I don't particularly like the song anyway, but I'm tempted, even though I could probably get it for free off youtube.

The way the BBC has given the subject of her funeral so much publicity, they seem to have created a backlash from some of the people whose lives were adversely affected by her actions.

To attempt to ban or censor the song now goes entirely against the ethos of the impartiality that the BBC was previously famous for, and which made it the envy of the world.

If there is any impartiality left at the BBC, this could best be demonstrated in the coming weeks by allowing both sides of the Thatcherism argument to be equally heard, thus enabling people to decide for themselves what they want to believe, rather than attempting to stifle any debate which doesn't fit with the current party line. When I was reading the comments on one of the BBC news articles, I noticed that someone had suggested that if the BBC was to censor the song, this could in fact be in breach of Section 4 of it's own editorial guidelines.

........someone from UKIP is talking about how the current 'big three' are so similar, New Labour does not represent Old Labour. To add a personal comment, we haven't had a Conservative PM since Ted Heath.

Sad but true. It only comes down to a question of personalities nowadays, considering how similar the parties seem to be. When Blair became PM, I found it hard to remember what party he actually belonged to, and I took to calling it the Conservative Nazi Labour Party.
I’ve even heard it suggested that there should be a question on the ballot paper which asks which political party you want to be oppressed by for the next 5 years.

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, the only other Prime Ministers I've seen commemorated have been Lord Home, Mr Wilson, Mr Heath and Mr Callaghan.

Generally this has involved an hour of reflection in the House (in parliamentary time of course - no recall, as it's not an emergency of any type), a memorial service - usually in Westminster Abbey - quite fitting too as former first ministers.

I think this would have been quite adequate for Mrs T as well, although, given the military connections, I'm not against her switching to St Paul's instead.

Would have avoided a lot of the unnecessary hoo ha anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I agree the Hitler parody is taking it a bit far, but then people (as they are) want to express their feelings in the strongest possible way so there can be no doubt about ones feelings. In order to achieve this people have a habit of relating the person to the most hated historical figure they can think of, normally Hitler, being a recent historical figure.

Was Hitler not instrumental in having those in the Nazi Party to establish a "final solution" for his perception of the Jews where concentration camps, many in Poland, had extermination chambers that led to the deaths of millions of people from all Nazi occupied countries of Europe ? There were others who perished in these camps such as the Roma people and those with left-wing views and those whose personal beliefs were totally against the Nazi ideals.

I am 68 years of age and many years older than many on this thread and whilst I am not an apologist for much of the way that the Thatcher policies were carried out, to compare her to Hitler, noting what I have said in my first paragraph above, would be a crass injustice to her, for whatever her perceived faults were, patriotism was not one that she was lacking in and had she been around at the start of the Second World War, I feel that her views on the Nazi threat to Europe would have mirrored that of Churchill.

In the Gulf Wars, Britain stood four-square with America, but for those forum members too young to understand the political machinations that preceded the Falklands conflict, America was not at all a staunch backer of Britain, as older forum members would know, but Thatcher stood resolute against all American exhortations to not go to war over the Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands, as it was in America's own interest to keep very friendly relations with Argentina for their own political ends. In this matter, she prevailed.

 

[wintonian]

Was Hitler not instrumental in having those in the Nazi Party to establish a "final solution" for his perception of the Jews where concentration camps, many in Poland, had extermination chambers that led to the deaths of millions of people from all Nazi occupied countries of Europe ? There were others who perished in these camps such as the Roma people and those with left-wing views and those whose personal beliefs were totally against the Nazi ideals.

I am 68 years of age and many years older than many on this thread and whilst I am not an apologist for much of the way that the Thatcher policies were carried out, to compare her to Hitler, noting what I have said in my first paragraph above, would be a crass injustice to her, for whatever her perceived faults were, patriotism was not one that she was lacking in and had she been around at the start of the Second World War, I feel that her views on the Nazi threat to Europe would have mirrored that of Churchill.

In the Gulf Wars, Britain stood four-square with America, but for those forum members too young to understand the political machinations that preceded the Falklands conflict, America was not at all a staunch backer of Britain, as older forum members would know, but Thatcher stood resolute against all American exhortations to not go to war over the Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands, as it was in America's own interest to keep very friendly relations with Argentina for their own political ends. In this matter, she prevailed.

I wasn't trying to excuses the Hitler relationship more attempting to offer an potential explanation to how it has occurred. As I kind of said it is an unfair and unnecessary link.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see that the "poll thread" has now been conjoined to this master thread.

 

[wintonian]

I wondered when that might happen, I was starting to get confused with where I had posted what, and unfortunately I fear I may have been the catalyst for the merger.

 

[overthewater]

Is anyone buying the pro thatcher song.

 

[Johnuk123]

Okey so where in these statues that you have just carted out does is prohibit the buying or playing of music in order to positively mark someone's death?

As for only being able to things that are not offensive that sounds a bit like the Chinese version of free speech - 2you are allowed to say anything you like unless we the government find it offensive". Besides who is to decide what is offensive or not? Or is that decided by the state via statute?

Where did I say you couldn't buy or play music, I don't think I did.

Yes it is like Chinese free speech, I am only pointing out the law I never said I agreed with it which is what you're implying.

As for what is offensive that is decided by the Government which you can throw out by the use of your vote.(assuming your old enough)

 

[SS4]

Is anyone buying the pro thatcher song.

Which pro-Thatcher song?

 

[Johnuk123]

Which pro-Thatcher song?

A rubbish punk record from 1979 by the Notsensibles currently no. 6 in ITunes.

 

[Eagle]

A rubbish record from 1979 by the Nonsensibles currently no. 6 in ITunes.

People thinking that I'm in Love with Margaret Thatcher was a serious tribute to her? Wow.

 

[Ferret]

People thinking that I'm in Love with Margaret Thatcher was a serious tribute to her? Wow.

Can't say I've ever heard it! Do I detect a 'Born in the USA' moment though?

 

[Teaboy1]

BAck to basics folks .... people who do well under a political party will always support such party (politician). Those who dont do well will oppose same.
So how would we best judge Maggie? May I say that if the cap fits ... wear it! And the Ding-Dong sound just about fits the bill IMHO.
However I have to admit that we have had an abysmal choice in recent years .... Major ... Blair (M Plan B Tory anagram) .... Brown [here I rest my case] and Cameron ..... but the point I want to make is that a British PM should make more friends than enemies within the electrorate to be respected but for me, Thatcher failed to live upto that and so was not good for us. I vote BAD !

 

[Railsigns]

BAck to basics folks .... people who do well under a political party will always support such party (politician). Those who dont do well will oppose same.

Thankfully not everyone is that selfish; some people vote for the party they think will do better for society as a whole.

Whilst I might personally stand to benefit from the capitalist policies of Thatcher and her ilk, I don't want to live in a society where the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' gets ever wider which, as well as being fundamentally unfair, is liable to result in higher crime rates.

 

[4SRKT]

Well I probably have done well out of Thatcher, if you believe that NOBODY ever did well until 1979 that is. I earn enough to be in The Elite as defined the other week in the seven newly dreamed up social classes. I hate the bitch and everything she stands for tho.

There are a lot of dickheads who earn not too much who do seem to support Thatcherism, presumably hoping that investing in selfishness and other moral turpitude today will bring some sort of reward tomorrow. They are mostly delusional as Cameron is pulling up the ladder way beyond where Thatcher got it. Serves them right TBH, but many others have my sympathy.

Not everyone is a selfish b*stard. I'd rather live in a fairer society TBH.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can't say I've ever heard it! Do I detect a 'Born in the USA' moment though?

You do. Yes, Louise Mensch really is THAT stupid. Still, Tories and popular culture..... The fact that it was a song by a punk band should have been a warning sign, but I guess some people must have been soooo desparate to adopt 'the tactics of the left' that they've ended up looking like fools.

 

[wintonian]

There are a lot of dickheads who earn not too much who do seem to support Thatcherism, prusamably hoping that investing in selfishness and other moral turpitude today will bring some sort of reward tomorrow. The are mostly delusional as Cameron is pulling up the ladder way beyond where Thatcher got it. Serves them right TBH, but many others have my sympathy.

It makes them feel better about themselves, as if they suddenly become part of the Tory gentry, and by voting for them they will eventually be looked after as members of the club.

But as you make out that's utter codswallop.

 

[Butts]

It makes them feel better about themselves, as if they suddenly become part of the Tory gentry, and by voting for them they will eventually be looked after as members of the club.

But as you make out that's utter codswallop.

To be fair what about the "Socialist Millionaires Club" - is it easier to be altruistic when your wallet is full whatever your political affiliations

 

[wintonian]

To be fair what about the "Socialist Millionaires Club" - is it easier to be altruistic when your wallet is full whatever your political affiliations

Urgh, champagne socialists, AKA well to do free markets liberals, who are in denial about there conservative leanings, AKA the modern Labour (parliamentary) party.

Okey there are some left wingers who have done well for themselves that aren't like that but I wouldn't call them champagne socialists personally.

 

[Butts]

Urgh, champagne socialists, AKA well to do free markets liberals, who are in denial about there conservative leanings, AKA the modern Labour (parliamentary) party.

Okey there are some left wingers who have done well for themselves that aren't like that but I wouldn't call them champagne socialists personally.

I wish they would bring back Spitting Image - although arguably there are not enough good targets in todays sterile indentikit politicians....

Oh for a Thatcher/Foot/Hattersley/Kinnock/Tebbitt to extract the urine from.

Cameron/Clegg not a patch on Owen/Steel

 

[wintonian]

I wish they would bring back Spitting Image - although arguably there are not enough good targets in todays sterile indentikit politicians....

Oh for a Thatcher/Foot/Hattersley/Kinnock/Tebbitt to extract the urine from.

Cameron/Clegg not a patch on Owen/Steel

I blame Major for that!

[youtube]OyU8qmzGsEg[/youtube]

 

[Butts]

I blame Major for that!

[youtube]OyU8qmzGsEg[/youtube]

Ah yes - I'll have a steak .....what about the vegetables ?

They'll have the same

Poll Results look like an Election at start of thread with Conservatives in the lead, Labour 2nd and the Liberals with 6 votes - I remember when they only had 6 MP's cue jokes about the party meeting in a phone box / taxi

 

[wintonian]

I remember when they only had 6 MP's cue jokes about the party meeting in a phone box / taxi

Oi, less of that, thanks to the SDP alliance we are quite a big party now.

Talking about Major I do like the comment from a member of the public:

Ellie Dashwood, 24, journalist for Living Marxism, Leeds. Voted for the Revolutionary Communist Party 1992: 'Major sums up quite aptly the problems the Tory Party have at the moment, which is that he's a dull man in a grey suit with no ideas and no inspiration and he likes mushy peas.'

The Independent - 10th April 1993

 

[Eagle]

Ah yes - I'll have a steak .....what about the vegetables ?

They'll have the same

A columnist in The Chicago Tribune this week mistook that for a real quote of Mrs T's.

 

[wintonian]

A columnist in The Chicago Tribune this week mistook that for a real quote of Mrs T's.

Seriously?

Got a link for it?

Found it now

Following her election in 1979, the story goes that Thatcher took her all-male cabinet out to dinner. The waiter asked what she would like. "I'll have the beef," she said. The waiter asked, "What about the vegetables?" "They'll have the same," Thatcher replied.

It would be wrong not attribute it to it's author: Cal Thomas

 

[4SRKT]

To be fair what about the "Socialist Millionaires Club" - is it easier to be altruistic when your wallet is full whatever your political affiliations

Maybe for some, but unless a sufficient number of rich people ARE altruistic we'll never get anywhere. It suits certain elements to portray richer left wing people as 'champagne socialists' as it allows them not to have to engage with them as a serious force. The phrase is essentially a distraction tactic.

Left wing politics is about a more equal society, not about reducing everyone to the status of a British Leyland shop steward circa 1976.

 

[wintonian]

Hypocrisy! - I'm not surprised however.

But the corporation said that 1980 punk song I'm In Love With Margaret Thatcher - the subject of a pro-Thatcher Facebook campaign - would be played in full on the Chart Show if it reached a high chart position.

BBC

 

[Butts]

Just finished watching "Margaret Death of a Revolutionary" a documentary on Channel 4.

Quite an interesting programme themed on maggie as the liberator of the Working Class (at least some of them) against an unholy alliance of Grandee Conservatives and Socialists who for there own idealogical reasons wanted to control the aforesaid.

Bernard Ingham .... I thought Denis Healey had Bushy Eyebrows but interviews with BI in the programme , his meet his side burns....handlebar eyebrows indeed

Worth a watch