Murder arrests after man hit by train.

[FGW_DID]

Three arrested on suspicion of Murder after a man was fatally injured by a train after an altercation.

Reported on the BBC News web page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-21992016

A 22-year-old man has died after being hit by a train following an altercation at a railway station, police said.

The man from Woking, Surrey, named locally as Ryan Harrison, was with a friend at Guildford station at 23:40 GMT on Saturday.

British Transport Police said shortly after the confrontation, which involved a number of other men, the man was fatally injured by a train.

A spokesman said his death was being treated as suspicious.

South East Coast Ambulance Service paramedics attended but Mr Harrison was pronounced dead at the scene.

His family have been notified.

Two 19-year-old men from Guildford were arrested at the scene and a third man, from Cranleigh, handed himself into a police station in Guildford later.

Thoughts go out to all those involved, another young life wasted after an act of violence, hope the Police are able to get to the bottom of this.

 

[jopsuk]

Hope the driver, who's also a victim in this, is OK.

 

[Kt]

From what I have heard the driver didn't even know it had happened until they were contacted some distance away, so I guess they are probably not feeling very good about it but thankful for not having witnessed it.

 

[455driver]

Please note supposition on my part knowing the station-

It is quite possible that the deceased was pushed into the side of the train and then fell between the platform edge and the train so the driver would not have seen anything, the linespeed is only 50mph along the platform (only 25 over the points into the platform though) and the train would be travelling much slower as it was stopping at/ pulling away from the platform, as the driver was not made aware until some time later I think it fair to assume the train was pulling away. Nasty incident for everyone.

Am I the only one that thinks a murder charge wont stick (as it needs to be premeditated) but a charge on manslaughter is much more likely?

 

[Surreyman]

Please note supposition on my part knowing the station-

It is quite possible that the deceased was pushed into the side of the train and then fell between the platform edge and the train so the driver would not have seen anything, the linespeed is only 50mph along the platform (only 25 over the points into the platform though) and the train would be travelling much slower as it was stopping at/ pulling away from the platform, as the driver was not made aware until some time later I think it fair to assume the train was pulling away. Nasty incident for everyone.

Am I the only one that thinks a murder charge wont stick (as it needs to be premeditated) but a charge on manslaughter is much more likely?

Press confirms he fell(was Pushed?) between train and platform i.e the side of the train.

 

[zoneking]

I commute to Guildford station every day. Loads of flowers at station entrance. Very sad, RIP.
Do we know which platform?

I often travel late at night and you do see some intoxicated people about.

 

[asylumxl]

Am I the only one that thinks a murder charge wont stick (as it needs to be premeditated) but a charge on manslaughter is much more likely?

I obviously have no real legal knowledge, but I think since they knew what would result from their actions that it might well stick. I'd guess it comes down to whether his intention was just to push the victim or whether it was to push him under a train.

 

[jb]

I commute to Guildford station every day. Loads of flowers at station entrance. Very sad, RIP.
Do we know which platform?

I often travel late at night and you do see some intoxicated people about.

I used to live in Guildford. My guess would be Plat 3, with the train concerned being an outbound Waterloo slow originating at Guildford (or an ECS movement from a Waterloo slow inbound some time before).

 

[user15681]

I obviously have no real legal knowledge, but I think since they knew what would result from their actions that it might well stick. I'd guess it comes down to whether his intention was just to push the victim or whether it was to push him under a train.

For murder you need to intend to kill OR intend to cause GBH.

 

[asylumxl]

For murder you need to intend to kill OR intend to cause GBH.

Yes, and if he intended to push him under the train I'm pretty sure that's intending to cause death or GBH.

 

[Surreyman]

I commute to Guildford station every day. Loads of flowers at station entrance. Very sad, RIP.
Do we know which platform?

I often travel late at night and you do see some intoxicated people about.

Guildford Station on Friday & Saturday nights is a 'lively' place, especially from 2300 onwards.
Lots of bars/night clubs, particularly in Bridge street (5 mins walk).
Security Guards and BTP are usually present.
Its probably little different to many other stations at these times!

 

[ReverendFozz]

Please note supposition on my part knowing the station-

It is quite possible that the deceased was pushed into the side of the train and then fell between the platform edge and the train so the driver would not have seen anything, the linespeed is only 50mph along the platform (only 25 over the points into the platform though) and the train would be travelling much slower as it was stopping at/ pulling away from the platform, as the driver was not made aware until some time later I think it fair to assume the train was pulling away. Nasty incident for everyone.

Am I the only one that thinks a murder charge wont stick (as it needs to be premeditated) but a charge on manslaughter is much more likely?

I also think a manslaughter charge is more likely, I think premeditation will be hard to prove, the deceased was shoved and a train was unfortunately in the way...

BTW, if the 3 arrested are charged will they be done under joint enterprise?

Absolutely tragic for the guys family and anyone who had the misfortune to witness it

 

[455driver]

I used to live in Guildford. My guess would be Plat 3, with the train concerned being an outbound Waterloo slow originating at Guildford (or an ECS movement from a Waterloo slow inbound some time before).

It was 2P82 the 2339 ftom Guildford (2219 from Portsmouth harbour) to Waterloo off platform 5, the normal platform for the fast trains.

 

[martybabes]

I also think a manslaughter charge is more likely, I think premeditation will be hard to prove, the deceased was shoved and a train was unfortunately in the way...

If it can be proved that the assailant pushed the victim into the path or side of the train with the intention of causing death or GBH, a conviction for murder should follow. If the unintended consequence of the action was death then a manslaughter charge should be brought. See R v Hancock [1985] UKHL 9

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who would be the authority to determine the charge that states "arrest on suspicion of murder" in this specific case. Was it the British Transport Police or the constabulary of the general area ? Is there also such a term as "arrest on suspicion of manslaughter" ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That will be down to the CPS, and such a decision will be based on the evidence that is gathered by the investigation, and the likelihood of that evidence being sufficient to secure a conviction by jury. For a murder charge, the burden of proof includes the intention to kill or cause serious harm.

 

[IanXC]

Who would be the authority to determine the charge that states "arrest on suspicion of murder" in this specific case. Was it the British Transport Police or the constabulary of the general area ? Is there also such a term as "arrest on suspicion of manslaughter" ?

It seems to me that the case is being dealt with by the BTP rather than the local force. The officer(s) who decided to arrest the individuals would have decided the grounds for arrest, the CPS will later be consulted should a decision be made to charge said individuals.

I don't see any reason why someone could be arrested on the grounds that the office suspects they are guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Juniper Driver]

It was 2P82 the 2339 ftom Guildford (2219 from Portsmouth harbour) to Waterloo off platform 5, the normal platform for the fast trains.

I did suspect platform 5.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't see any reason why someone could be arrested on the grounds that the office suspects they are guilty of manslaughter.

I mentioned that aspect assuming that both murder and manslaughter were indictable offences.

 

[Juniper Driver]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-22008411

Very sad,R.I.P

 

[Stigy]

It's far easier to downgrade a charge than upgrade it, hence murder arrest. Chances are this will be a Manslaughter conviction, might not even be Manslaughter knowing the CPS! BTP seem to be investigating at the moment, although typically they don't investigate murders and usually pass it over to the local HO force, in this case Surrey Police. Given the likihood of downgrading the charge, I'd imagine BTP will continue the investigation themselves and utilise Surrey's resources if need be. For murder to stick they'd have had to either be holding him over the edge of the platform awaiting the train, killed him prior to him being pushed on to the tracks, have been witnessed threatening to kill him prior to the incident or other premeditated factors.

Ryan appears to have been in a sour of the moment scuffle, which ended tragically. This will ruin several lives unfortunately.

 

[ChilternHenry]

I showed this to my father, who is a barrister, and he said the key factor in getting them to go down for murder is whether or not the attackers were intoxicated at the time. If they were, a good lawyer can easily argue there was no intention. If they weren't, then they should be fairly easy to imply that by pushing the man into the train is clear intent. However, as much as I don't like to say this, but did the deceased provoke the attack. My dad thinks that if this is the case, they'll get off on a manslaughter charge. But enough speculation, and my sympathies to all parties involved, tragic loss

 

[Stigy]

I showed this to my father, who is a barrister, and he said the key factor in getting them to go down for murder is whether or not the attackers were intoxicated at the time. If they were, a good lawyer can easily argue there was no intention. If they weren't, then they should be fairly easy to imply that by pushing the man into the train is clear intent. However, as much as I don't like to say this, but did the deceased provoke the attack. My dad thinks that if this is the case, they'll get off on a manslaughter charge. But enough speculation, and my sympathies to all parties involved, tragic loss

Not wanting to dprculate, but I believe he was punched, not pushed. Being punched isn't the same as being pushed, especially during a fight, where tempers are raised etc, and you have no control over where the person falls.

 

[455driver]

For murder to stick they'd have had to <snipped>, killed him prior to him being pushed on to the tracks,

Could be close to the truth if what is being said in the messroom is true.