The line from Paddington to Reading has an almost 24-hour service, with the biggest weekday gap between trains being 1.5h London-bound and 2h the other way.
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Near 24/7 railway, potential for another grayrigg??
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The line from Paddington to Reading has an almost 24-hour service, with the biggest weekday gap between trains being 1.5h London-bound and 2h the other way.
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swt_passenger
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... as hinted at earlier in the thread, it's always much easier to do this on a four track railway without impacting so much on maintenance opportunities.
swt_passenger
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Indeed, was just pointing it out as I've noticed before it's a sometimes overlooked nearly overnight railway service in London!
Ah I see what you mean. I'd agree it is a bit of an unknown service in comparison with some others.
I would say that not that many people know that there is a near 24 hour service between Euston and Milton Keynes. Again, a 4 track railway. The busiest 4-track commuter railway in the country doesn't, however, have a 24 hour service, and indeed the gap in service on the line into Waterloo has increased since the new timetable to allow for more engineering work.
That's interesting - that 0353 from Reading appears to be fairly new.
When I moved to live near that line in 2001 there was an hourly overnight service in each direction (apart from on a Saturday night when obviously few people would have wanted to go out). I was very impressed. Unfortunately that disappeared in 2001 (I think it may have been the December timetable change) with rather larger gaps appearing in the timetable. I did end up with quite a few nights out based on trying very hard not to miss the 0334 out of Paddington as that did feel a long time at that time of the morning until the 0522.
It's interesting to note that, perhaps not surprisingly, those four-track railways which have a 24hr service are, for the most part, paired 'by use'; it is, of course, much harder to arrange meaningful engineering access on a four-track railway paired 'by direction'.
Why would demand have been lowest on Saturday into Sunday? I'd have thought Friday into Saturday and Saturday into Sunday would have the highest demand.
The timetable would have changed in May or September back then. The December change was introduced in 2004 in order to implement an EU directive.
Sorry, should have put a smiley in there. I would have thought that too, but the railway seems to count Saturday night as very early Sunday morning and assume noone wants to travel (I know that they want to do important engineering work but of all the nights I expect higher passenger demand then).
Ah, probably September then. I know I was quite excited by it after having had a last train at 2232 which required a massive run to get a last bus or a rather long walk. And then disappointed when half the night trains disappeard at a stroke.
I think it's sarcasm! I used to have a similar complaint about the line to Hertford North, in that for some bizarre reason the night they stopped running the earliest was Saturday night. Fixed now though, usefully.
The later start of service on many routes on Sundays allows extra time for overnight engineering work.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Can't say I have seen too many people off to the airport on the 01:48 (and many other late night trains) out of St.Pancras (and standing room only).
It's only after around 4 a.m. that it is noticeable people are heading to catch flights.
There may well be airport workers who may not stand out with luggage etc.
I beleive it's because of airport workers that this bus service in a fairly rural area starts just after 0330 7 days a week - http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/199 - Skyline.pdf
(and presumably that's meeting a particular shift start time which explains the subsequent gap from Buxton on a Sunday).
I've landed at Gatwick and caught the 0130 Thameslink train Northbound before now (admittedly on a delayed flight, but I and many others would have had problems without it).
I've often taken the very late/early trains from St Pancras and many people onboard aren't with suitcases and just look very tried/drunk.
But, if people are arriving very late at Gatwick (or Luton) and using a train to get into London then I'd not see them as they've already got off. And later on, nearer the first flights in the morning I'd expect to see them then - as indeed I've often been one myself.
The fact is, the trains during the night are seldom empty and prove that if there were trains through the night on other routes, they'd likely be used too. Why not, given we live in a 24 hour society?
I hope HS2 will be designed to operate 24/7, by allowing maintenance work to be carried out on a single line with the other one still running. Indeed, I'd hope all new lines and major upgrades would make 24 hour running possible except for the most major upgrade work.
But, if people are arriving very late at Gatwick (or Luton) and using a train to get into London then I'd not see them as they've already got off. And later on, nearer the first flights in the morning I'd expect to see them then - as indeed I've often been one myself.
The fact is, the trains during the night are seldom empty and prove that if there were trains through the night on other routes, they'd likely be used too. Why not, given we live in a 24 hour society?
I hope HS2 will be designed to operate 24/7, by allowing maintenance work to be carried out on a single line with the other one still running. Indeed, I'd hope all new lines and major upgrades would make 24 hour running possible except for the most major upgrade work.
tbtc
Veteran Member
The fact that the ECML work over-ran last weekend shows that we're not as obsessed about getting the railway re-opened (regardless of the engineering delays) as the OP suggests
I'm sorry but some engineering work over ran on GEML because 6cm of snow fell on top of the new over head wires that had been put out ready to get on with the job. Apparently NR workers were working in blizzard conditions so the works overran. But SOME passengers demanded to know why the engineering work overran, who was responsible etc and wouldn't accept that the weather had hampered the works. In fact I believe some were calling for the person responsible to be sacked! I worry that there might be a tendency to rush to give back possessions on time because of the consequences. This is my opinion not fact! I also think twitter was the worst thing that ever came to the railway and that it should be got rid of. What some ppl say on it is unreal.
Can you actually sack Mother Nature?
That's a pretty routine demand. In my days over there, written death threats were not unusual following a big overrun. Genuinely!
You just have to have a thick skin, note which train they said they were on, then regulate it behind a stopper for the rest of the week. That bit I made up.
mtmikethom
Member
I always thought Main lines and some secondary routes were 24 hour railways anyhow, as was touched on there is freight about, as recent as the 80's there were plenty of newspaper trains on the lines coming out of London & Manchester in many directions, there was more mail trains around also, Long distance Night passengers trains especially in the summer months, I think there used to be 5 or 6 Passenger trains during the night running along the East coast main line towards Kings Cross.
michael769
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Presumably they wanted to the sack whoever was assigned to hold the umbrella over the works :razz:
It's interesting that the night services presumably went as the railway went through a state of decline, but now usage is the highest ever - surely some TOCs would be wanting to try and reinstate them?
I know FCC wanted to run later trains on the ECML but couldn't as Network Rail takes possession at set times, apparently whether work needs doing or not. Thus, the last train is 0136.
Perhaps there are certain times locked out that aren't available for timetabling passenger services? If so, that doesn't mean it will always need to be like that?
tbtc
Veteran Member
If there was a danger that we were too obsessed with getting services working again that we ignored the time taken for engineering work then this was surely a time that it *could* have happend?
The fact that engineering work over ran (rather than having to stop part way through and desperately restart services) weakens your whole argument, sorry.
Yeah, some idiots on Twitter were mouthing off, show me a day when that doesn't happen?
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I think that a later/earlier service on some lines could be fairly busy (given how some large cities really are "twenty four hour" in reality)...
...but if we can't get sufficient staff to work on a Sunday daytime then I'd hate to think of the problems getting sufficient people rostered to work through the night (and you'd have to guarantee staff availability - its one thing seeing your service cancelled due to lack of staff on a Sunday daytime and there's another one in half an hour, but if people saw their 03:15 cancelled there'd be bother)
Sorry but I think the amount of broken rails recently is testament to the fact out rail network is getting hammered by the intensity of the services that are operating. Maybe this shows that not enough time is being given to maintaining the line? As some people have pointed out passengers don't care what goes on as long as there is a train service provided when they wanted. I heard a passenger complain that sunday services don't start early enough at the weekend. When I was pointed out that NR need to maintain the line I think his comment was along the lines of why dont they do this work overnight. Im sure a lot of passengers truely believe that all engineering works take just a couple of hours to do. In the "modern" world passengers want services that run very early in the morning to very late at night. The media love the passengers that make a real song and dance about the fact the railway isnt providing a service that matches their needs. I know image and perception is everything (Virgin prime example) so I worry that they will try to satisfy more and more people at the downfall of maintenance. Again this is my opinion and not a statement of fact.
That's true. In fact, I wonder if some 24 hours trains aren't running not because of NR, not because of maintenance, but simply because staff don't want to work those hours.
It would be a shame if that was the reason some people couldn't have a near 24 hour service.
Sundays might be outside the working week for some, but (weekday) nights certainly aren't! Whether the union(s) would have any grounds for meaningful objections to the additional or revised diagrams, I don't know, but I don't think they'd need to rely on volunteers for overnight trains (but they would probably need to take on more staff to cover the extra work).
Silv1983
Member
I think some stations like Southport couldn't be served overnight as the noise generated by trains working the 20mph curves into the station causing a huge amount of flange squeal would surely breach environmental laws of some kind.
What came first, the railway or the nearby houses?
I'd hope that we don't see railways stopping overnight because residents might complain, or some do-gooder decides to stop them anyway just in case a resident might complain.
D1009
Established Member
Some of the NIMBYs near me are certainly complaining about the proposed IEP depot at Stoke Gifford, even though the South Wales main line which already runs 24/7 for freight is on an embankment between the depot site and the houses, but that's somewhat off topic.
I think part of the problem is the way services are specified by the DfT for the franchised TOCs to operate. Anything outside that would have to be well worthwhile for the TOC to be interested.
Near a bit city, I am sure trains through the night could be profitable and many transport operators know that even if some late services aren't that well used, it can encourage more usage in the day as people travel knowing they can get home without 'risk'.
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