Skelmersdale possible station

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Merseytravel have commissioned Network Rail to carry out a new feasibility study to examine various options regarding a new Skelmersdale station. The costs of this study are being met from £100,000 from Lancashire County Council and £50,000 from Merseytravel.

 

[lancastrian]

Merseytravel have commissioned Network Rail to carry out a new feasibility study to examine various options regarding a new Skelmersdale station. The costs of this study are being met from £100,000 from Lancashire County Council and £50,000 from Merseytravel.

Having read about this, I find it interesting what they define as Skelmersdale.

One option is to extend to Upholland, or even a Park & Ride station between Upholland and Rainford Junction. Other options actually do include a new line into Skelmersdale.

Yet again to my non surprise, they are planning only half a job. If you are going to extend the third rail just over half the distance to Upholland, what then? Is Upholland going to get the Kirkby - Ormskirk treatment and have a single platform, with the tracks separated, entering the station of opposite directions?

Are we going to end up with another Ellesmere Port to Helsby scenario, with very few trains on the non electrified section. More than likely.

I agree that Skelmersdale should be reconnected to the national network. Why they didn't do it when the were building the new town in the late 60's, early 70's when the old trackbed was more than likely still available I will never understand.

BUT if the are extending the third rail along the Wigan line, please I hope that they have the common sense to continue all the way to Wigan Wallgate and terminate the electric services in the bay platform there, as well as building the line into Skelmersdale.

That way you could have a 15 minute service from Liverpool to wherever the Skelmersdale branch leave the Wigan line and from there you would have a 30 minute service to both Skelmersdale and Wigan. With obviously more trains in the Rush Hour.

And while they are considering extensions to the Merseyrail network. I have three they should be seriously looking at.

1. Bidston to Wrexham
2. Ormaskirk to Burscough Junction
3. Ellesmere Port to Helsby


Stands back to await comments with interest.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Why does it cost so much for a feasability study?!!

 

[eps200]

Having read about this, I find it interesting what they define as Skelmersdale.

One option is to extend to Upholland, or even a Park & Ride station between Upholland and Rainford Junction. Other options actually do include a new line into Skelmersdale.

Yet again to my non surprise, they are planning only half a job. If you are going to extend the third rail just over half the distance to Upholland, what then? Is Upholland going to get the Kirkby - Ormskirk treatment and have a single platform, with the tracks separated, entering the station of opposite directions?

Are we going to end up with another Ellesmere Port to Helsby scenario, with very few trains on the non electrified section. More than likely.

I agree that Skelmersdale should be reconnected to the national network. Why they didn't do it when the were building the new town in the late 60's, early 70's when the old trackbed was more than likely still available I will never understand.

BUT if the are extending the third rail along the Wigan line, please I hope that they have the common sense to continue all the way to Wigan Wallgate and terminate the electric services in the bay platform there, as well as building the line into Skelmersdale.

That way you could have a 15 minute service from Liverpool to wherever the Skelmersdale branch leave the Wigan line and from there you would have a 30 minute service to both Skelmersdale and Wigan. With obviously more trains in the Rush Hour.

And while they are considering extensions to the Merseyrail network. I have three they should be seriously looking at.

1. Bidston to Wrexham
2. Ormaskirk to Burscough Junction
3. Ellesmere Port to Helsby


Stands back to await comments with interest.

At this stage more third rail is pointless as the new stock due 2017 will almost certainly be capable dual pickup so we may as well have OHL.
Would be grand if the timed one or two of these logical extensions to be done just as the new stock starts to arrive send the first units on the new bits and work from there.

 

[WatcherZero]

Why does it cost so much for a feasability study?!!

A dozen well paid professionals sequestered for 3 months or so.

 

[Muzer]

I see a future along the following lines:

"A £10,000 feasibility study has been commissioned into whether or not it is feasible to commission a £100,000 feasibility study looking into building a new station"

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Skelmersdale is a perfect example of what happens to a place when it's cut off from the railway network. Likewise Bacup in Lancashire; Wellington in Somerset; and (until fairly recently) Corby. :roll:

 

[507 001]

Heard it all before, will believe it when I see it!

 

[MK Tom]

I really don't understand why Upholland isn't called 'Upholland for Skelmersdale' or advertised as being Skelmersdale's station. It's physically joined to the urban area!! Yet it has the usage of a rural halt because nobody realises it serves the town. It took me 35 minutes to reach the town centre on foot from Upholland. Skem DOES have a station, and with renaming and with some better bus links and car parking it would see a huge jump in usage. I support Skem getting a new station, but in the meantime, at least make the best of what exists...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I really don't understand why Upholland isn't called 'Upholland for Skelmersdale' or advertised as being Skelmersdale's station. It's physically joined to the urban area!! Yet it has the usage of a rural halt because nobody realises it serves the town. It took me 35 minutes to reach the town centre on foot from Upholland.

I do sympathise with your comments on the amount of time it took you to walk from Upholland station, as I too have taken this long walk to what is now understood as Upholland town centre.

What you do have to understand though, is the line of construction taken when this line was being constructed. The line from Orrell station to Upholland station was constructed to be tunnelled through the hillside in the Upholland tunnel, which brought the line in its current situation en route to Liverpool.

 

[MK Tom]

I do sympathise with your comments on the amount of time it took you to walk from Upholland station, as I too have taken this long walk to what is now understood as Upholland town centre.

What you do have to understand though, is the line of construction taken when this line was being constructed. The line from Orrell station to Upholland station was constructed to be tunnelled through the hillside in the Upholland tunnel, which brought the line in its current situation en route to Liverpool.

I was referring to Skelmersdale town centre, and I meant '35 minutes on foot' to mean it's a short distance!!! I wouldn't call Upholland a town really.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was referring to Skelmersdale town centre, and I meant '35 minutes on foot' to mean it's a short distance!!! I wouldn't call Upholland a town really.

Upholland has a population of around 6,000 and is now seen as a dormitory commuter area. The M6 is seen as a useful motoring link as there is a junction not too far removed from Upholland.

 

[bluenoxid]

A bit of an interesting one. If Liverpool was to chase the Light Rail route for its centre, it is this route to Kirkby that would be ideal for this form of transport.

There appears to be quite a few options. Upholland would be better if it had a direct link to Liverpool. Third Rail needs to be extended to Skem or Upholland if we are to see the impact.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A bit of an interesting one. If Liverpool was to chase the Light Rail route for its centre.

An interesting point to ponder upon that you raise. What is the current state of play with Merseytravel and its discussions with other bodies with regard to any Light Rail project for Merseyside ?

 

[bluenoxid]

Last word I heard was beyond resuscitation unless Liverpool became a marginal or Liverpool won the lottery

 

[Lampshade]

I was referring to Skelmersdale town centre, and I meant '35 minutes on foot' to mean it's a short distance!!! I wouldn't call Upholland a town really.

It's quicker to walk into Skelmersdale from Upholland than it is to get the bus

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For some reason, I always think of the small bus station at Skelmersdale (situated at the top of the ramped access to the shops) to be the centre of Skelmersdale. I must confess that the 375/385/395 services from Wigan to Skelmersdale, via Upholland, do seem to take a somewhat convoluted route, but I am assured that this to serve the eastern housing environs of Skelmersdale.

 

[MK Tom]

For some reason, I always think of the small bus station at Skelmersdale (situated at the top of the ramped access to the shops) to be the centre of Skelmersdale. I must confess that the 375/385/395 services from Wigan to Skelmersdale, via Upholland, do seem to take a somewhat convoluted route, but I am assured that this to serve the eastern housing environs of Skelmersdale.

That is the centre of Skelmersdale... the bus station as you say is physically on top of the town centre. It's not a long walk from Upholland station by any means. That's my point really. Upholland should be advertised as Skem's station, with improved links into the (Skem) town centre. Skelmersdale absolutely dwarfs Upholland itself.

 

[sheff1]

I really don't understand why Upholland isn't called 'Upholland for Skelmersdale' or advertised as being Skelmersdale's station.

Quite. And rename Bryn as Ashton for Makerfield at the same time.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite. And rename Bryn as Ashton for Makerfield at the same time.

Bryn has been known as such since the Lancashire Union Railway opened it in 1869 and serves that area known by that name.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite. And rename Bryn as Ashton for Makerfield at the same time.

Ashton-in-Makerfield did have its own railway station at one time, with services operated by the Great Central Railway on the St Helens Central to Lowton St Mary's branch line, but this was closed to passengers on 3rd March 1952 and only used for goods traffic on that line until that line was totally closed.

 

[Bevan Price]

It's quicker to walk into Skelmersdale from Upholland than it is to get the bus

You'll wait all year for any buses outside Upholland station (for which a more accurate description would be Pimbo Lane). It also suffers from not having any proper car park, and no nearby taxi rank. I wouldn't like to walk from Upholland station to Upholland centre, or Skemersdale carrying luggage, especially in the hours of darkness.

Given enough money for clearance of vegetation and replacement of a few bridges, it would still be feasible to reopen the line from Ormskirk to a location near the site of the former Skelmersdale station (in the "old town"), and there seems to be plenty of space nearby for a large car park.

Taking the line into the "new town" areas would be extremely expensive, and probably best achieved by building a tunnel loop under the populated areas, with two or three stations on the loop. So I doubt that this latter option will ever occur.

Ironically, approval to close the line was given at about the same time that they were deciding to build the "new town". Typical Government idiocy.

 

[MK Tom]

Same thing happened with the Oxford-Cambridge line in Milton Keynes and the Bridgenorth/Stafford lines in Dawley New Town (later Telford). Not the fault of the town planners, but the lack of joined up thinking between government departments.

Skelmersdale is a garden city style new town with absolute swathes of open space and a town centre almost completely surrounded by under-developed land (it's basically what Runcorn would be if the money had run out in 1981). So I wouldn't have thought running into the new town is that hard. Parallel some existing roads and just use their generous reservations.

The thing with second generation new towns like Skem, Runcorn, Corby, Hemel and so on is that the 'old town', whilst still being important, gets wrongly assumed to be the heart of the much larger new area. The new town centres are where the activity and economy is. Having a station in the old town would do very little to actually tap into the travel market into the town.

EDIT: I made a little proposal...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

.

EDIT: I made a little proposal...

The cost of bridging the motorway would be quite a costly infrastructural item to be borne in mind. Let us also not forget that Skelmersdale is in the administered area of Lancashire County Council and that the latest feasibility study was 67% funded by them.

 

[MK Tom]

The cost of bridging the motorway would be quite a costly infrastructural item to be borne in mind. Let us also not forget that Skelmersdale is in the administered area of Lancashire County Council and that the latest feasibility study was 67% funded by them.

The motorway is on an embankment, you'd go under it. The road there could be replaced with one using the oversized pedestrian underpass further east. The railway could then use the existing road underbridge.

 

[Brian1947]

Upgrading of Upholland station by extending third rail electrification or reinstating the line from Ormskirk both result in the same problem - they are basically on the eastern/western edges of the town respectively. Driving from Upholland to the western extremity is in the region of 5 miles, and thus not walking distance. Skelmersdale (New Town) is not only devoid of traffic lights but lacks footpaths on the main roads and is not pedestrian friendly.

Renaming Upholland as Upholland for Skelmersdale is not really practical as significant redevelopment of the road system in the area would be required to cope with projected increased traffic.

I believe the only logical means of extending to Skelmersdale would be from Rainford gaining access between the two main industrial estates, and thus to the town centre & main population areas. Electrification of the line would also increase passenger numbers at Rainford.

Just how much business would be generated is interesting as the area has never had any logical rail access, the routes to Ormskirk and Rainford being closed well before the destruction of the railways started 50 years ago.

 

[MK Tom]

Upgrading of Upholland station by extending third rail electrification or reinstating the line from Ormskirk both result in the same problem - they are basically on the eastern/western edges of the town respectively. Driving from Upholland to the western extremity is in the region of 5 miles, and thus not walking distance. Skelmersdale (New Town) is not only devoid of traffic lights but lacks footpaths on the main roads and is not pedestrian friendly.

Renaming Upholland as Upholland for Skelmersdale is not really practical as significant redevelopment of the road system in the area would be required to cope with projected increased traffic.

I believe the only logical means of extending to Skelmersdale would be from Rainford gaining access between the two main industrial estates, and thus to the town centre & main population areas. Electrification of the line would also increase passenger numbers at Rainford.

Just how much business would be generated is interesting as the area has never had any logical rail access, the routes to Ormskirk and Rainford being closed well before the destruction of the railways started 50 years ago.

Could you do a map for that projection, similar to my one above?

Skem has no traffic lights for good reason. All pedestrian crossings are grade-separated. There are no pedestrian crossings because pedestrians never have to cross roads. The pedestrian network is very good with the exception of those estates where a courtyard layout was used and footbaths don't follow the secondary roads within the estate. But following the major routes pedestrian movement is easier than it is in most towns.

Here are the two walking routes I currently use:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The motorway is on an embankment, you'd go under it. The road there could be replaced with one using the oversized pedestrian underpass further east. The railway could then use the existing road underbridge.

Two points here. Would your proposed road using any sort of existing pedestrian underpass require any specific approval and what groundworks would be required to ensure that this would meet current regulations.

Have there ever been any similar instances in the past where a rail line has used the line of an existing road underbridge. Again I ask, what projected infrastructural requirements would need to be effected. Would there have to be any disruption to motorway traffic whilst such works were being carried out ?

Either way, how much do you envisage that Lancashire County Council would be expected to contribute towards the costs of these works, noting that road as well as rail will be part of these.

 

[Holly]

A bit of an interesting one. If Liverpool was to chase the Light Rail route for its centre, ... .

Unlikely.

Fare free buses would be a lot cheaper and much more beneficial in revitalising the region.

Unfortunately it would also be illegal today, even if the money were available.

As the experience of Chester has revealed (the city now has to pay more to subsidise payola rip-off buses to/from the railway station than it used cost the city to provide free buses; thanks to the lunatic laws that prevent it from providing free buses). Not all that different from a privately owned railway in the end.

 

[al green]

Two points here. Would your proposed road using any sort of existing pedestrian underpass require any specific approval and what groundworks would be required to ensure that this would meet current regulations.

Have there ever been any similar instances in the past where a rail line has used the line of an existing road underbridge. Again I ask, what projected infrastructural requirements would need to be effected. Would there have to be any disruption to motorway traffic whilst such works were being carried out ?

Either way, how much do you envisage that Lancashire County Council would be expected to contribute towards the costs of these works, noting that road as well as rail will be part of these.

I looked at this several years ago. 30 secs on Google Streetview will show you that the M58 bridge over Whiteledge Rd is wide enough to accommodate a road, a railway, a footpath, a cycleway and still have space left over.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I looked at this several years ago. 30 secs on Google Streetview will show you that the M58 bridge over Whiteledge Rd is wide enough to accommodate a road, a railway, a footpath, a cycleway and still have space left over.

Would any extra strengthening of that bridge be required to carry a railway service in its vicinity ?