How heavily is Amtrak subsidised

[Hellfire]

This coming autumn I'm finally going to realise a long held ambition and travel across the US by train. In this case it's the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago.

On booking the tickets I was amazed to discover that the cost came out at the equivalent of £197 each. That's for a 2000 mile trip including sleeping accommodation (a roomette) and all meals. This seems incredibly cheap when you consider the cost of peak rail fares here in the UK. Is Amtrak more efficient or just soaking up federal money?

 

[shinkansen1966]

This coming autumn I'm finally going to realise a long held ambition and travel across the US by train. In this case it's the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago.

On booking the tickets I was amazed to discover that the cost came out at the equivalent of £197 each. That's for a 2000 mile trip including sleeping accommodation (a roomette) and all meals. This seems incredibly cheap when you consider the cost of peak rail fares here in the UK. Is Amtrak more efficient or just soaking up federal money?

Here's what you might expect to eat
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/923/682/Empire-Builder-Dining-Menu-eastbound-train.pdf

Amtrak's annual subsidy is about half the UK. But outside the NEC, Amtrak only runs a handful trains.

I've taken Amtrak coast to coast several times and thoroughly enjoyed every trip. Have a great time.

 

[Hellfire]

Well the menu knocks the spots off Virgin's funny little meal boxes

 

[Flamingo]

Sounds like a good trip! Enjoy

 

[philabos]

Well the menu knocks the spots off Virgin's funny little meal boxes

My wife and I travelled VT from London to Glasgow last year and commented how Amtrak could never dream of running such a fine service.
Funny how things always seem better "across the pond" no matter which way you look!

BTW Amtrak's long distance services are heavily subsidized. Even at the prices shown in the sample menu, Amtrak diners only earn 42% of their cost.

 

[Hellfire]

The grass is always greener elsewhere.

I travel on Virgin every week and somehow can't see them in the same light as Amtrak. I suppose there is a difference between Amtrak's more routine eastern services and trains like the Empire Builder.

Did you find fares in the Uk expensive compared to the US. I was just surprised that Amtrak could offer a fare covering meals and sleeper accommodation for a price that is only £30 more than Virgin's standard class walk on single fare from Glasgow to London. I would have expected to pay much more for the Amtrak service.

 

[Buttsy]

Isn't the US railroad more for freight with a passenger service imposed upon it rather than the UK which is more of a passenger railway with freight imposed on it? If it is I can see how Amtrak would be able to run reasonably priced services as the freight service would pay most of the costs for the track.

Happy to be corrected btw.

 

[philabos]

The grass is always greener elsewhere.

I travel on Virgin every week and somehow can't see them in the same light as Amtrak. I suppose there is a difference between Amtrak's more routine eastern services and trains like the Empire Builder.

Did you find fares in the Uk expensive compared to the US. I was just surprised that Amtrak could offer a fare covering meals and sleeper accommodation for a price that is only £30 more than Virgin's standard class walk on single fare from Glasgow to London. I would have expected to pay much more for the Amtrak service.

I thought the fare was a steal - 49 UKP first class (advance ticket for travel on Saturday). I pay more for a one way from Lancaster to New York - coach with no snack service - about 170 miles.

You seem to have obtained a very good rate - I just checked their fare in a roomette Chicago-Seattle at it shows over 400 UKP in February.

 

[Hellfire]

I booked last week for October so maybe booking early gets a better deal much like airlines. I had seen accounts on the web suggesting this particular train is Amtrak's busiest long distance service so thought we'd better get in early.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Isn't the US railroad more for freight with a passenger service imposed upon it rather than the UK which is more of a passenger railway with freight imposed on it? If it is I can see how Amtrak would be able to run reasonably priced services as the freight service would pay most of the costs for the track.

Happy to be corrected btw.

You may well be right. I understand passenger traffic gives way to freight in the US. Of course they have a lot of single track in some areas which must make things more difficult.

 

[philabos]

Isn't the US railroad more for freight with a passenger service imposed upon it rather than the UK which is more of a passenger railway with freight imposed on it? If it is I can see how Amtrak would be able to run reasonably priced services as the freight service would pay most of the costs for the track.

Happy to be corrected btw.

You are quite right - Amtrak operates long distance trains over private railroads at an incremental cost. The contracts are confidential but a government study several years back stated Amtrak's payments to private railroads is only about 3% of their total cost. A very good deal for Amtrak.
In effect, Amtrak is getting a subsidy from both government and railroads.

That said, Amtrak still loses over a $500 million per year on its long distance service - the fare level has little to do with the economics. For example, the Empire Builder Jan-Sept 2012 had $57.7M revenue and $109.6M in cost. Tough to make money on one train per day each way over 2000 miles.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
[ I understand passenger traffic gives way to freight in the US. Of course they have a lot of single track in some areas which must make things more difficult.[/QUOTE]

The railroads give Amtrak trains priority - as you say when a freight is in trouble ahead on a single track the result is delay - but certainly not policy or practice. Passengers tend to get impatient anytime they see a freight train.

 

[the sniper]

I booked last week for October so maybe booking early gets a better deal much like airlines.

Erm, or like 'long' distance rail travel in the UK?

You're comparing the equivalent of an Amtrak Advance fare with a walk of fare here, it's not really a fair comparison to make.

 

[Hellfire]

You're comparing the equivalent of an Amtrak Advance fare with a walk of fare here, it's not really a fair comparison to make.

Fair point.

 

[reb0118]

I too have done the Empire Builder. I think you have got a great deal on the price ~ we paid just over $1000 for Seattle - Chicago - Detroit for two in a roomette, albeit in the height of summer.

The roomette is small so travel light, you can check baggage into the van at King Street Station, Seattle.

Our steward told us that we were the first on time departure that month due to the disruption re the severe flooding. I told him that the train was so late that is had caught up with itself i.e 24 hrs late! We arrived at Chicago about 12 hrs down.

We got good service throughout, say hello to Connie in the restaurant car.

Enjoy the trip ~ there may be rangers from the park service giving wee talks about the countryside - just remind them that it was British prior to the Oregon Treaty. You may even see a twister - I witnessed the worst lightening storm I have even seen ~ it was fantastic.

Cheers.

 

[Greenback]

I did Chicago to Seattle in Coach Class. I was very glad to get off the train at th eend, even though i had ebjoyed the journey. The plains were magnificent, and I found the little towns along the way to be pretty interesting too.

 

[Kilted_Scot]

I did New York to Boston last year and the Journey was magnificent in viewing terms, in comfort terms perhaps not......

 

[k-c-p]

I did Newark <-> Washington in 2011. Trip was ok. As Acela was way too expensive (200 USD one-way), I took the Northeast Regional (49 + 79 USD).

Both trains were running on time. I had a seat in a quiet car, so no annoying cell phone conversions .