BTP launch appeal after "abhorrent" attack on train driver

[jnjkerbin]

https://www.btp.police.uk/latest_news/appeals/train_driver_attacked.aspx

Appeal launched after train driver attacked at Bat and Ball

Officers have launched an investigation after a train driver was assaulted at Bat and Ball station on Tuesday, 22 January.

The incident took place as the 4.24pm Kentish Town to Sevenoaks service was at the station.

Inspector Tim Bradley said, “As the train was about to depart, a group of youths were playing with the doors, causing the train to be delayed.

“As the train driver went to investigate, he was assaulted by three of the group as he was hit on the back of his head.”

BTP and Kent Police officers were alerted, who attended the station, but the youths had made off.

As a result of the attack the driver was taken to the Princess Royal University Hospital, in Farnborough, with a head injury. He was later discharged that night.

Officers will be carrying out a full investigation including seizing CCTV from the surrounding area and speaking to witnesses who saw the attack.

Insp. Bradley added: “This was an abhorrent attack on a train driver and staff should be free to carry out their job without being abused or attacked in this violent way.

“We do not tolerate staff assaults of any kind and we are determined to identify those responsible and bring them to justice.”

“I would urge anyone who was on board the train, at the station at the time or who saw anything that took place to come forward and assist officers in the investigation.”

A Southeastern spokeswoman said: "This was a vicious attack on a member of our staff that has shocked us all. Our driver was just trying to do his job and keep his service and passengers running on time.

"If anyone has information that will help the police track down these people then please help. Such violence cannot and must not be tolerated."

Anyone with information is asked to call 0800 40 50 40 quoting background reference B2/LSA of 23/01/2013. Information can also be passed to the independent charity Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111.

Best wishes to the driver and let's hope the attackers are found.

 

[455driver]

Typical, I am surprised it doesnt happen more often to be honest.

 

[Ferret]

Even if an arrest or arrests are made, our weak justice system won't deal with the matter adequately. I give up.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Even if an arrest or arrests are made, our weak justice system won't deal with the matter adequately. I give up.

Nah, they'll probably slam the driver in prison for five years :roll:.

Seriously though, it doesn't surprise me particularly. Only last year, a train on that very line was set on fire by some @?#%s. Not the first time such incidents have occurred and sadly, not the last.

 

[PR1Berske]

Even if an arrest or arrests are made, our weak justice system won't deal with the matter adequately. I give up.

How can you say "I give up" when there's been no court case yet?

 

[GadgetMan]

How can you say "I give up" when there's been no court case yet?

Because we already know that the culprits are very remorseful of their actions, the behaviour was out of character, they are normally very friendly young youths who help the local pensioners with their daily chores etc etc............ Giving them a custodial sentence will not do anyone any good, so a slap on the wrist and promise not to do it again will suffice.

 

[BestWestern]

A Southeastern spokeswoman said:

"This was a vicious attack on a member of our staff that has shocked us all. Our driver was just trying to do his job and keep his service and passengers running on time.

"If anyone has information that will help the police track down these people then please help. Such violence cannot and must not be tolerated."

She added:

"Sadly, we don't actually care enough to do away with DOO and single staffing of trains, which would inprove safety for both staff and customers but cost the shareholders and senior management far too much".

Oh, hold on... :roll:

Even if an arrest or arrests are made, our weak justice system won't deal with the matter adequately. I give up.

You are quite correct. The only language these worthless scum would possibly understand would be a beating in return. Won't happen until the civil uprising comes though!

 

[455driver]

GadgetMan and BestWestern, you are both naughty people, of course the justice system will make full use of the law and make an example of them!

Oh wait they already did that which is why these spineless attacks continue.

 

[BestWestern]

GadgetMan and BestWestern, you are both naughty people, of course the justice system will make full use of the law and make an example of them!

Oh wait they already did that which is why these spineless attacks continue.

Yup. They will, of course, be entirely blameless because our big nasty society will have driven them to a life of dole claiming and pot smoking, leaving them with nothing to do but prat about with train doors irritating the few people in this world who actually have to go somewhere to work and earn a living in order to pay for said dole money. But it's fine, because the function of the honest working British citizen today is purely to keep the wheels turning so that we can prop up every hopeless layabout we can drag up from every corner of the planet. Britain is the charity of the world, and it's workers make the donations.

 

[PR1Berske]

Wow, never have I seen such reactionary, knee-jerk, prejudiced, presumptive claptrap as displayed on this thread.

I have said before that certain people on this forum, so often members of the railway industry, are wholly unfit for dealing with members of the public if this is the kind of ridicule which passes for attitude.

I'm going to stay "on topic" by reminding you all that there is a due process of law and order in this country. Your attitudes are stomach churning.

 

[455driver]

Wow, never have I seen such reactionary, knee-jerk, prejudiced, presumptive claptrap as displayed on this thread.

I have said before that certain people on this forum, so often members of the railway industry, are wholly unfit for dealing with members of the public if this is the kind of ridicule which passes for attitude.

I'm going to stay "on topic" by reminding you all that there is a due process of law and order in this country. Your attitudes are stomach churning.

Good job you dont live in "our " world then isnt it!

Lets not forget one of our "family" is currently serving 5 years because he pressed a button at the wrong time, I mean it isnt like the 16 year old being drunk and drugged up had any bearing on how she acted that day was it, or the fact her friends let her get in that state in the first place, or her parents considered it "normal" for a 16 year old girl to get paralytic and take illegal drugs was it, no its all the nasty guards fault so forgive us if we have no faith in this poxy "justice" system!

 

[PR1Berske]

Good job you dont live in "our " world then isnt it!

Lets not forget one of our "family" is currently serving 5 years because he pressed a button at the wrong time, I mean it isnt like the 16 year old being drunk and drugged up had any bearing on how she acted that day was it!

I recognise that the incident to which you refer has clearly upset his colleagues, you included. But we live in a democracy with a rule of law, and the rule of law does not discriminate.

If your logic, such as it is, was taken to its natural conclusion, we would have no courts, no police, and no due process. I'd rather live in a democracy with the rule of law. You want the opposite.

 

[BestWestern]

Wow, never have I seen such reactionary, knee-jerk, prejudiced, presumptive claptrap as displayed on this thread.

I have said before that certain people on this forum, so often members of the railway industry, are wholly unfit for dealing with members of the public if this is the kind of ridicule which passes for attitude.

I'm going to stay "on topic" by reminding you all that there is a due process of law and order in this country. Your attitudes are stomach churning.

There is no excuse, absolutely none whatsoever of any sort, for thumping somebody around the back of the head and sending them to hospital, simply because they had the nerve to tackle antisocial behaviour. There are many situations in which one can quite rightly suggest that judgement be reserved, this however is not one of them. The Driver was treated for 'head injuries' after being hit by yobs messing around with his train. You may choose to sympathise with such individuals, I would suggest most people wouldn't.

I'm sorry, but it is your precious 'law and order' which is bringing this country to it's knees. Open your eyes, take a look around you. Every day, people are mugged, stabbed, knifed, frequently killed. A God-fearing man is beaten to death on his way to Midnight Mass for heaven's sake, and you are standing on your soapbox telling us we shouldn't be so harsh? Where is the law, where is the 'order'?! Wake up man, you and those who share your attitude are sleepwalking our country into the gutter.

 

[455driver]

and the rule of law does not discriminate.

Maybe not in your world but I think it best if we just agree to disagree on that one.

Just one question, when was the last time somebody was imprisoned for assaulting a member of rail staff?

 

[BestWestern]

Good job you dont live in "our " world then isnt it!

Lets not forget one of our "family" is currently serving 5 years because he pressed a button at the wrong time, I mean it isnt like the 16 year old being drunk and drugged up had any bearing on how she acted that day was it, or the fact her friends let her get in that state in the first place, or her parents considered it "normal" for a 16 year old girl to get paralytic and take illegal drugs was it, no its all the nasty guards fault so forgive us if we have no faith in this poxy "justice" system!

I've got to say here that I'm afraid I think our colleague signed his own death warrant, so to speak. The evidence was, as I understand it, pretty clean cut. She was leaning against the train, he shouted a warning, then went. You just can't do that, or somebody just might end up dead. I'm sure many might have done the same thing, but nobody would really have had any excuse. The issue of her being intoxicated and drugged, at the age of 16, is a concern. But ultimately we're well paid and this is why A very sad day all round.

 

[tbtc]

We've got the thread about the "fire" in Manchester where people are saying that it's far too early to comment and people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Yet here we apparently know that the attackers were 'unemployed pot smokers'.

 

[PR1Berske]

There is no excuse, absolutely none whatsoever of any sort, for thumping somebody around the back of the head and sending them to hospital, simply because they had the nerve to tackle antisocial behaviour. There are many situations in which one can quite rightly suggest that judgement be reserved, this however is not one of them. The Driver was treated for 'head injuries' after being hit by yobs messing around with his train. You may choose to sympathise with such individuals, I would suggest most people wouldn't.

I'm sorry, but it is your precious 'law and order' which is bringing this country to it's knees. Open your eyes, take a look around you. Every day, people are mugged, stabbed, knifed, frequently killed. A God-fearing man is beaten to death on his way to Midnight Mass for heaven's sake, and you are standing on your soapbox telling us we shouldn't be so harsh? Where is the law, where is the 'order'?! Wake up man, you and those who share your attitude are sleepwalking our country into the gutter.

I'm not here to stand up for thugs or criminals. But nor am I here to stand up for some bizarre wet-dream fantasy where this country's ills can be resolved by it turning into a police state.

I have faith in democracy, the rule of law, and fairness. I do not have faith in nations which exist without fairness or freedoms, such as North Korea or others.

I am often told that this country could be "better" if we had the death penalty or allowed people to carry guns. I point them to the USA, where crime continues to exist, as does shooting of 5 year old children, and the killing by the state of educationally deprived black teenagers on little or no evidence.

Your hatred for the rule of law is a measure of you.

 

[455driver]

BestWestern, do you consider the sentence handed down fair?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

IYour hatred for the rule of law is a measure of you.

I dont hate the law, I hate the way it is interpreted, but hey you carry on! :roll:

 

[PR1Berske]

BestWestern, do you consider the sentence handed down fair?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I dont hate the law, I hate the way it is interpreted, but hey you carry on! :roll:

It is a principle of living in a free and fair democracy as ours that the law is interpreted by judges following a court case. It is the right of everyone to expect a free and fair case, and of course down the years we have seen serious miscarriages of justice when the processes goes wrong.

I often hate the way the law is interpreted. But I consider that to be a consequence of living in a relatively small-c conservative state. You appear to want this country to be both more conservative and less law-abiding, as your view is that everyone who is young must be treated with contempt and suspicion.

I find that attitude to be horrific. You can't project prejudice on an entire generation based on one decision with which you don't agree.

 

[rebmcr]

your view is that everyone who is young must be treated with contempt and suspicion.

No, just the ones who whack someone in the back of the head with a baseball bat.

 

[455driver]

as your view is that everyone who is young must be treated with contempt and suspicion.

Where the hell did you get that assumption from?:roll:

I find that attitude to be horrific. You can't project prejudice on an entire generation based on one decision with which you don't agree.

I can do what I like, this is a free country apparently (see your post above) or is it only the "special" people, like yourself, that are allowed to assume things!

 

[PR1Berske]

Where the hell did you get that assumption from?:roll:



I can do what I like, this is a free country apparently (see your post above) or is it only the "special" people, like yourself, that are allowed to assume things!

Oh that old chestnut.

Yes, of course, this is a free country in which you can "do what you like". But here is the great balancing act which comes from living in a country like ours - that which is acceptable and that which is not.

Your posts in this thread show that, due to one case which you are emotional about, you have concluded that there is no law and order in the UK and we're going to the dogs without Saudi Arabian or American style levels of retribution.

Might I suggest to you that revenge is not justice.

 

[BestWestern]

Nobody - not me anyway - is suggesting we put people to death, nor carry guns. The US is finally beginning to see the awful folly of every nutter being armed to the teeth, and I sincerely hope that things move forwards enough to at least bring in legal limitations as to who can carry guns - though there are doubtless far too many in circulation for there to ever be any form of meaningful control though sadly.

On the subject of the UK, I'm afraid I simply don't share your faith in our justice system, and neither do a vast and ever increasing number of the population. Nobody gets punished in the UK; we don't lock people up because we won't build more prisons, despite their being a very clear need and despite us somehow having the funds to waste enormous chunks of public money on a few weeks of sport. Those who are 'behind bars' often live a better quality of life than they would outside, we see utterly pathetic 'community' schemes which are nothing but a joke, it is truly pitiful. There is nothing to deter the bad guys in this country any more, nobody cares. Mug somebody, steal something, vandalise something, what's the worst that can happen? A pathetic 'paper punishment' like an Asbo or some community service that nobody cares if you don't attend. These are the problems, the low-level scum who just don't give a sh*t because they are as good as untouchable. Only when you rack up a truly astonishing record does any judge seem to feel that custodial is needed, and even then you get your TV and Playstation, free gym and square meals, and then you get released halfway through. This is not mouth-foaming waffle, this is everyday life; this is what happens in the UK today. Read the papers, watch the news, it's there day in day out.

Tell us this: I walk down the street, being a nuisance and causing a problem to other innocent citizens going about their lives. Somebody challenges me, so I hit them. Hard enough that they are admitted to hospital. What punishment do you think I deserve for such an appalling act towards a fellow citizen? Really, tell us. And what 'punishment' do you think the culprits in this case would be given, if the police ever caught them? Do the two honestly match? I'll bet they don't.

I do not 'hate the law', nor did I suggest that I did. I simply spend enough time in the real world to see this nation crumbling. Your blind faith in the law is also a measure of you I'm afraid. You clearly have never been a victim of any of those I mention above, if you had I would imagine you might share the frustration so many others feel at how nobody seems to have any interest in stopping them.

 

[455driver]

Might I suggest to you that revenge is not justice.

Where have I said it is?

You are just making stuff up as you go along, I have never mentioned anything about the people who carried out this attack but apparently I have said "all youths are bad", "we need anarchy in the UK" etc?

You are weird mate, really weird, are you a judge or something?

 

[PR1Berske]

BestWestern - you are misguided if you think Prison is as you describe. It is not.

We dehumanise prisoners in this country. We talk of justice but do not rehabilitate. Companies often refuse to re-employ prisoners, regardless of reason for being jailed, and within prison many people without education are denied access to ways to leave the spiral of crime which put them there in the first place. The idea that prisoners are given cushty lives with games consoles is a cruel, right-wing lie. We even rob prisoners the right to vote, stripping them of something wholly unconnected with justice.

I'm told that having police on every corner, CCTV on every street, snoopers looking at every email and ID cards around my neck would make me feel "safe". It doesn't. It won't.

I'm told that locking everyone up for life in workhouses without a meal is fair and reasonable. It's not. It would never be.

 

[BestWestern]

You are weird mate, really weird, are you a judge or something?

I doubt it, he knows how to use a computer! From the attitude of some of them I would imagine they struggle with fire and the wheel :roll:

 

[Monty]

Your hatred for the rule of law is a measure of you.

How the hell can you reach conclusions such as this when other forum users merely display cynicism that the guilty parties (when found) in this crime will be punished appropriately? :roll:

Just because people show little faith in our justice system does not mean they think the rule of law is unimportant.

 

[455driver]

BestWestern - you are misguided if you think Prison is as you describe. It is not.

We dehumanise prisoners in this country. We talk of justice but do not rehabilitate. Companies often refuse to re-employ prisoners, regardless of reason for being jailed, and within prison many people without education are denied access to ways to leave the spiral of crime which put them there in the first place. The idea that prisoners are given cushty lives with games consoles is a cruel, right-wing lie. We even rob prisoners the right to vote, stripping them of something wholly unconnected with justice.

I'm told that having police on every corner, CCTV on every street, snoopers looking at every email and ID cards around my neck would make me feel "safe". It doesn't. It won't.

I'm told that locking everyone up for life in workhouses without a meal is fair and reasonable. It's not. It would never be.

Both my brothers, one older (now a governer) and one younger (dog handler) than me are prison officers and they hate the fact that everyone has a colour telly, DVD player, X box, playstation etc and at one stage the screws had to call the lags Sir (yes really), if the lags decide they dont want to go to get their meal the PO have to take it to their cells (human rights to a meal etc) so yes prison is cushy, how would you know otherwise, or did you read it in the Daily mail?

 

[BestWestern]

BestWestern - you are misguided if you think Prison is as you describe. It is not.

We dehumanise prisoners in this country. We talk of justice but do not rehabilitate. Companies often refuse to re-employ prisoners, regardless of reason for being jailed, and within prison many people without education are denied access to ways to leave the spiral of crime which put them there in the first place. The idea that prisoners are given cushty lives with games consoles is a cruel, right-wing lie. We even rob prisoners the right to vote, stripping them of something wholly unconnected with justice.

I'm told that having police on every corner, CCTV on every street, snoopers looking at every email and ID cards around my neck would make me feel "safe". It doesn't. It won't.

I'm told that locking everyone up for life in workhouses without a meal is fair and reasonable. It's not. It would never be.

You seem to hold the view that any form of prison or punishment must be inline with Orwellian police state dictatorship. It really isn't. We have had soft justice in this country for many years, for too many in fact. What we see is low level trouble makers going through the Court system time and time and time again, getting a slap on the wrist and a telling off and then being sent on their way to merrily carry on. Many of them don't care, their criminal record is of no relevance whatsoever so who gives a stuff how long it is. Yes, there is probably a need for a clearer path to follow for those who wish to 'go straight', but there will still be plenty more who would ignore it and continue to enjoy themselves for free. We need a step change in this country, what we have at the moment is deeply toxic and leading us to ruin. Whatever else we may try, there needs to be the element of punishment for those who do wrong. It doesn't need to be a dungeon or a gas chamber as you seem to imply that I am suggesting, it just needs to be somewhere you would really rather not go back to a second time. And, crucially, we need a justice system which isn't frightened to make use of those facilities.

 

[PR1Berske]

With due respect 455driver, your attitude is such that I will not take at face value your second- or third-hand anecdotes.

I tell you what I do know. That generations of young men - and it's almost always men - are dismissed from the very start by people like you whose prejudices colour their attitudes without question. And that dehumanisation will be passed on from them to friends, children, partners and so on, creating an unbreakable wall of anger and resentment.

My politics are such that I would never have the Daily Mail in the house.